14:01:27 <randomuser`> #startmeeting Fedora Documentation Project
14:01:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 11 14:01:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is randomuser`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:45 <randomuser`> #meetingname https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:01:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/docs_project_meetings'
14:01:56 <randomuser`> #topic Roll Call
14:02:10 * iambryans is here
14:02:28 * jjmcd 
14:02:43 * pkovar is here
14:03:06 * jreznik is here too
14:03:49 <randomuser`> #chair jjmcd
14:03:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd randomuser`
14:04:10 <randomuser`> we'll give the stragglers a minute
14:04:17 * jsmith is lurking
14:05:02 * bcotton is here
14:05:28 <randomuser`> hrmm.. stale action items in the agenda
14:05:56 * jreznik has one topic to discuss with docs team
14:05:58 <randomuser`> #topic We have no action items to discuss
14:06:09 <randomuser`> #chair jreznik
14:06:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd jreznik randomuser`
14:06:16 <randomuser`> go ahead, jreznik
14:07:09 <jreznik> well it's follow up to the discussion on how treat features and release notes and marketing from docs list
14:07:27 <jreznik> and I'd like to move it on :) it seems like it stalled on the list
14:08:38 <jreznik> FESCo agreed on a feature process revamp
14:08:42 * Sparks is here
14:09:06 <jreznik> it's now more planning process and the marketing part should be separated from now
14:09:16 <randomuser`> jreznik, I think we stalled in anticipation of reviewing the changed process - iirc you were working out details at the time
14:09:46 <jreznik> randomuser`: yep, I was working on the details - and now I have a better overview as it was accepted :)
14:09:58 <jreznik> finally
14:10:14 * jreznik thinks the email thread is better for discussion to let people read it
14:11:01 <randomuser`> okay
14:11:01 <jreznik> I provided few more details/ideas there, feel free to ask me for more or come with other ideas - I still don't have 100% clear idea how to do it, waiting for more input
14:11:44 <randomuser`> you're referring to your mail on 04 Mar ?
14:11:45 <jreznik> so that's probably all from me for now
14:12:20 <jreznik> yep, Re: Documenting Features
14:13:04 <randomuser`> #info jreznik would like our input on the planning process, re: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2013-March/014857.html
14:13:15 <randomuser`> #topic Planing Process (retroactive)
14:13:58 <jjmcd> I have to admit to not paying much attention, but the overview in the email looks great
14:14:48 <randomuser`> We'll give everyone some time to review in the background and we can come back to it at the tail of the meeting if need be
14:15:00 <randomuser`> #topic docs infrastructure
14:15:02 <jreznik> thanks guys!
14:15:45 <randomuser`> we're changing our publishing platform at some point
14:17:02 <randomuser`> I'm not sure to what, so I can't report much here. I *am* a bit worried that we'll find out late, and have a rush to update process docs and sort out koji ACLs
14:17:15 <jjmcd> Of course
14:17:57 <jjmcd> We probably need a process
14:18:20 <jjmcd> We seem to change every 3 or 4 releases, so we probably should come up with a way to ease the pain
14:18:25 <randomuser`> heh
14:18:49 <randomuser`> I've got the seed of a process around here somewhere
14:19:24 <randomuser`> In general we can assume that the versioned branch of our git repo is kept at a releaseable state
14:19:51 <randomuser`> and cgit can spin up tarballs for us
14:19:55 <jjmcd> For RNs that makes sense, does it for guides tho?
14:20:45 <randomuser`> well, it's an easy way to spin up a multi-lang RPM - and I understand the publican3 web platform eats them
14:21:21 <jjmcd> cool
14:21:39 <jjmcd> So we could simply make the tarball at a point where the branch is ready
14:21:45 <randomuser`> yes
14:21:53 <randomuser`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Immanetize/Packaging_Docs_in_an_RPM
14:21:56 <jjmcd> We wouldn't be blindsided by partial stuff magically appearing
14:22:13 <randomuser`> very much WIP here, but you can get the gist
14:23:12 <randomuser`> we have a koji tag for our production docs, but the same or similar process could also see them shipped to users
14:23:21 <randomuser`> Do we want to ship docs to users?
14:24:49 <Sparks> randomuser`: It will be possible once we start publishing using RPMs.
14:25:07 * randomuser` nods
14:25:10 <Sparks> randomuser`: But I think we should finish that portion before we start handing out the repo address.
14:25:34 <randomuser`> fair point, Sparks
14:26:19 <randomuser`> If we *do* put our docs in the main repos, we will need packagers to maintain them
14:26:55 <randomuser`> in our own tag, we *might* be able to get away with giving docs-publishers access, but we have to play by the rules in the user repoos
14:27:34 <randomuser`> So, something to keep in mind: If you want your guide to be available that way, you need to become a packager
14:29:14 <randomuser`> #topic Beat Assignments
14:29:36 <randomuser`> Most of the beats have been spoken for - this is just a reminder
14:30:01 <randomuser`> thanks to everyone taking the time for it
14:30:25 <randomuser`> #topic  F19 Schedule is out
14:30:32 <randomuser`> #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-19/
14:31:40 <randomuser`> that could have been worse...
14:31:59 <iambryan> randomuser`, look what you did :)
14:32:03 <randomuser`> Anyway, please take a moment to review the schedule, write it on your desk blotter, put it into your phone, etc
14:32:34 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:32:45 <randomuser`> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:33:22 <randomuser`> iambryan put a lot of work into our list of bugs over the weekend - kudos due
14:34:22 <randomuser`> Anyone have bug troubles they'd like to discuss?
14:36:21 <randomuser`> okay, we'll move on
14:36:30 <randomuser`> #topic Sparks' Bug Corner
14:36:44 <randomuser`> #link http://tinyurl.com/agh4mg6
14:36:59 <randomuser`> there's one bug on here - sponsorship on docs.fp.o
14:37:14 <Sparks> randomuser`: I didn't mean to have my own, personal bug corner.
14:37:20 <Sparks> :)
14:37:29 <randomuser`> iambryan, you found that we could do this with a change to the publican brand
14:37:43 <randomuser`> Sparks, it's named in your honor, of course :)
14:37:51 <Sparks> heh
14:37:51 <jreznik> btw. for schedule - it does not contain the patch from bcotton he sent me for F18, I'll try to rebase it (sorry for OT, /me was out for a moment)
14:38:07 <randomuser`> thanks jreznik
14:38:52 <iambryan> yes, that is correct, we just need to reference a URL from the root of the proxy.server
14:39:01 <randomuser`> If we can wrangle someone to write a patch for publican-fedora, nb and sgordon allegedly can commit it
14:40:50 <iambryan> *crickets*
14:41:02 <randomuser`> okay, no volunteers
14:41:25 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:42:17 <randomuser`> pkovar, did you want to add anything yet on /usr/share/help and shell integration?
14:43:09 <pkovar> randomuser`: no news at this point. there have several people commenting but that's it
14:43:17 <pkovar> * been
14:43:57 <randomuser`> yes, i was one. We won't have any issues packaging, i think, but the shell integration is a black box to me
14:44:48 <pkovar> randomuser` so far it looks like gnome devs would prefer us to package PDFs
14:44:52 <pkovar> instead of html files
14:45:08 <pkovar> as the pdfs would integrate more easily
14:45:14 <pkovar> in the Documents app
14:45:35 <pkovar> that has been improved in f 19 / rawhide
14:45:40 <pkovar> re: search
14:45:47 <randomuser`> hmm...
14:46:35 <randomuser`> ive always thought PDFs were a poor way to ship content that wasn't going to be printed, but I suppose there are advantages
14:46:51 <Sparks> randomuser`: +1
14:46:59 <pkovar> with that not-so-new app Documents, yes
14:47:37 <pkovar> it could probably integrate with a bunch of html files for a guide as well
14:47:50 <Sparks> randomuser`: Oh, I have something.
14:48:20 <iambryan> +1 for html, pdf tends to be too leaden I find
14:48:55 <Sparks> PDFs also have problems rendering for people with handicaps that need larger text, etc.
14:49:10 <Sparks> HTML and ePub are much better for those things.
14:49:16 <randomuser`> pkovar, let's table it pending further input from the gnome folks - i'd like to see integration, but we have already tabled packaging in general for now
14:49:42 <pkovar> fine with me. thanks
14:49:49 <iambryan> maybe a calibre repo with epubs?
14:49:56 <randomuser`> Sparks, ?
14:50:13 <Sparks> iambryan: Well, that will exist in the future... not just epubs, though.
14:50:19 <Sparks> So...
14:50:32 <iambryan> Sparks, :)
14:50:55 <pkovar> whatever publican offers ...
14:50:55 <Sparks> Since I started working for the Product Security Team at Red Hat, I've been working on liberating a number of documents and articles that have been written.
14:51:07 <Sparks> I hope to publish the first later this week.
14:51:11 <randomuser`> Sparks, ++
14:51:56 <Sparks> So I'll be writing to the list and on my blog about this more but I hope this will be the start to putting many good guides into the FOSS world.
14:52:47 <randomuser`> Sparks, it occurs to me that there might be more room on the docs.fp.o landing page for more than just formal guides
14:52:58 <Sparks> Yes
14:53:30 <Sparks> Articles, multi-media (included in DocBook), and other interesting things can be published there.
14:54:24 <randomuser`> that is worthy of some effort, i think
14:55:00 <randomuser`> it's easier to write an article than it is to write a guide, imo
14:55:15 <Sparks> randomuser`: Sure.
14:55:27 <Sparks> randomuser`: For smaller topics articles are appropriate.
14:55:41 <Sparks> randomuser`: I believe the readme-burning-isos is an article.
14:55:50 <randomuser`> I'm exited to see what you come up with, Sparks
14:56:17 <Sparks> randomuser`: Yeah, me too. :)
14:56:36 <iambryan> jbrooks, suehle and others are working on bringing up fedoramagazine.org in replacement of the FWN. It will be mostly articles and features.
14:56:42 <randomuser`> a bunch of articles, though... i think our index would need more structure than divisions of release for that to scale
14:57:01 <randomuser`> or, just publish on fedoramagazine :/
14:57:06 <iambryan> :P
14:57:46 <iambryan> not sure on a timeline though, suehle is trying to sort out who pays for the SSL cert
14:58:06 <Sparks> iambryan: Wha?  I thought that would come through Infra
14:59:00 <iambryan> it's a wordpress.com hosted install
14:59:13 <Sparks> Oh, well then SSL won't work
14:59:29 <jsmith> We could always host it somewhere else :-p
14:59:40 <Sparks> jsmith: And make SSL work?
14:59:48 <jsmith> Sparks: Sure, why not?
14:59:58 <iambryan> it'll be using third party SSL I believe, it's just trying to find the bucket to take the payment from
15:00:19 <Sparks> iambryan: AFAIK, you can't make SSL work on wp.c
15:00:31 <Sparks> unless they've made some major changes to their setup
15:00:54 <randomuser`> is wp.c providing sponsored hosting?
15:01:40 <iambryan> purchased hosting is my understanding... the $99 package I believe
15:02:02 * adamw taps feet, looks at watch
15:02:18 <randomuser`> yes, we should wrap it up here
15:02:31 <randomuser`> afterparty in #fedora-docs
15:02:43 <randomuser`> #endmeeting