19:00:01 <nirik> #startmeeting Infrastructure (2013-03-21)
19:00:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 21 19:00:01 2013 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:01 <nirik> #meetingname infrastructure
19:00:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'infrastructure'
19:00:01 <nirik> #topic welcome y'all
19:00:01 <nirik> #chair smooge skvidal CodeBlock ricky nirik abadger1999 lmacken dgilmore mdomsch threebean
19:00:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: CodeBlock abadger1999 dgilmore lmacken mdomsch nirik ricky skvidal smooge threebean
19:00:09 * skvidal is here
19:00:11 * relrod here
19:00:21 * maayke is here
19:00:25 * puiterwijk is around-ish (just don't expect too intelligent answers from me ;) )
19:00:58 <smooge> sort of here
19:01:17 * nirik will another min for folks to wander in...
19:01:29 * pingou here
19:02:12 <nirik> #topic New folks introductions and Apprentice tasks.
19:02:28 <nirik> any new folks want to introduce themselves? or have questions?
19:02:40 * skvidal notes the infra team appears to be full of sick people
19:02:44 * skvidal moves away from all of them
19:02:51 <nirik> :)
19:03:04 <jerzyr> yes :)
19:03:39 <pingou> skvidal: sick ?
19:03:47 <nirik> hey jerzyr. Welcome. Care to send us a one line intro?
19:03:48 <skvidal> pingou: smooge and puiterwijk
19:03:55 <skvidal> pingou: both under the weather
19:03:58 <nirik> are you interested in sysadmin or application development?
19:03:58 <jerzyr> short bio: for 10 years, I teach students algorithms and data structures
19:04:10 <pingou> oh
19:04:16 <jerzyr> sorry :)
19:04:32 <skvidal> jerzyr: you're fine!
19:04:38 <jerzyr> ;)
19:04:46 <skvidal> jerzyr: so you were a teacher for 10yrs - now what do you do?
19:05:19 <jerzyr> I'm looking for practice as a consultant to developers
19:05:56 <zodbot> suehle: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
19:05:59 <suehle> #meetingname Fedora Marketing
19:05:59 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing'
19:06:00 <suehle> doh
19:06:04 <skvidal> suehle: no
19:06:06 <nirik> suehle: oops.
19:06:06 <skvidal> :)
19:06:11 <skvidal> suehle: are we overlapping?
19:06:20 <nirik> suehle: we didn't switch for DST, but you folks did?
19:06:22 <suehle> Yeah, but I doubt there's a swarm waiting.
19:06:28 <suehle> nirik, ooooh
19:06:46 <suehle> Well, if there's anyone here who actually wants to talk to me about marketing, I'll move over to #fedora-meeting-1
19:06:53 <skvidal> suehle: thank you
19:06:55 <suehle> nirik, it's entirely possible that didn't even occur to me :)
19:07:03 <nirik> jerzyr: welcome again. I can point you at sysadmin stuff after the meeting over in #fedora-admin... most of our app developer types are at pycon this week, but they hang out in #fedora-apps.
19:07:18 <nirik> suehle: yeah, we can move next week if you want us too... whatever works. ;)
19:07:52 <nirik> #topic Applications status / discussion
19:07:59 <nirik> any app/devel news this week?
19:08:08 <nirik> (again, many folks are at pycon...)
19:08:40 <relrod> threebean started working on a selenium test suite for our staging infra, it's pretty neat
19:08:42 <relrod> https://github.com/fedora-infra/rube
19:08:43 <nirik> I've been working a bit on getting blockerbugs app moved into staging.
19:09:07 <nirik> but it needs db setup, and proxy setup and I've not had time to poke at it much
19:09:24 <pingou> I've pushed to github a new branch for fedora-tagger, basically the basis for fedora-tagger v2.0
19:09:51 <nirik> cool.
19:09:57 <pingou> it comes with its own API (that's what is there atm), handles tagging and rating, change a little bit the db scheme
19:10:12 <nirik> #info selenium test suite for stg hosts: https://github.com/fedora-infra/rube
19:10:15 <pingou> threebean wants to port the UI to it soonish
19:10:19 <nirik> #info blockbugs moving into staging
19:10:29 <nirik> #info new fedora-tagger v2.0 work starting.
19:10:39 <nirik> cool.
19:10:40 <pingou> and the idea would be to integrate this with the gnome-app store that rhughsie is working on
19:10:56 <nirik> ok.
19:11:05 * nirik keeps meaning to read up on that, but hasn't yet
19:11:05 <pingou> otherwise, more copr, more pkgdb2, a surprise for next week and fedocal is in stg :)
19:11:18 <skvidal> pingou: wait
19:11:20 <skvidal> hold on
19:11:22 <skvidal> a surprise?
19:11:25 <pingou> yes :)
19:11:29 * skvidal dislikes surprises
19:11:50 <pingou> it's kinda ready for a 1.0 but I'm waiting for threebean to be there to reveal it :)
19:11:55 <nirik> a good surprise I hope. ;)
19:12:03 <pingou> I don't think you will dislike it :)
19:12:22 <pingou> (well, I certainly hope so at least!)
19:12:23 <relrod> that's what they always say. ;)
19:12:37 <skvidal> yes...
19:12:39 <skvidal> I see
19:12:40 <pingou> suspens... :)
19:13:04 <skvidal> okay moving along
19:13:06 <nirik> relrod: random memory... what happened to that php auth thing we were going to try and use for wiki and gallery? did we just decide to look at moving to openid ?
19:13:24 * nirik feels bad we haven't gotten anything moving with gallery.
19:13:46 <skvidal> what is gallery _for_ again?
19:13:55 <relrod> nirik: Well I haven't done much with it recently (I might move it to the fedora-infra org and pick back up on it again) - but if we want to look at doing openid for Gallery instead, that's fine too
19:13:59 <nirik> pics at events.
19:14:04 <nirik> suehle and spot wanted it.
19:14:06 <skvidal> nirik: ah
19:14:26 <nirik> If we can, that might move us forward quicker and also just be nicer.
19:14:48 * nirik doesn't know the state of openid for wiki / gallery, but we can look.
19:15:09 <nirik> ok, any other application/devel news?
19:15:13 <relrod> nirik: There's no maintained/decent openid thing for Gallery, afaik - we can probably dep on another openid php library and write whatever it needs to link that library to gallery.
19:15:22 <nirik> ok.
19:15:31 <nirik> hopefully that wouldn't be _too_ much work
19:15:37 <relrod> indeed
19:15:39 <biker> what about using Persona?
19:15:51 <relrod> hah, that was just mentioned in -noc a few hours ago
19:15:56 <pingou> biker: w/ fas account ?
19:16:04 <biker> pingou, .fas rugebiker
19:16:06 <nirik> biker: we are looking into it...
19:16:21 <biker> .fas rugebiker
19:16:22 <nirik> biker: puiterwijk thinks it might be not too hard to add it...
19:16:23 <zodbot> biker: rugebiker 'Ruben Guerra Marin' <rguerra.marin@gmail.com>
19:16:45 <pingou> I don't follow ther
19:16:47 <pingou> +E
19:16:59 <nirik> pingou: mozilla is pushing a web auth thing called 'persona'
19:17:10 <nirik> we may be able to add support for it to our fas-openid...
19:17:21 <biker> pingou, https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/persona/
19:17:23 <puiterwijk> nirik: fedora-idprovider ;)
19:17:39 <nirik> sorry, another similar service anyhow. ;)
19:17:43 <pingou> I know what is personna, but then it's no longer linked to FAS, no?
19:17:50 <puiterwijk> actually the same, but renamed :)
19:17:51 <biker> for what i have read, persona is going more serious than openid
19:18:22 <skvidal> 'more serious'?
19:18:24 <pingou> or do we want to run our own persona server and link it to FAS ?
19:18:25 * nirik shrugs. I don't know if it will take off, but if we can easily provide support for it, it might be handy for those sites that add support for it.
19:18:28 * skvidal has no idea what that means in this context
19:18:45 <nirik> pingou: yes, a provider, like our fas-openid provides openid based on fas
19:18:53 <pingou> ok
19:19:00 <pingou> now I get it :)
19:19:06 <biker> oo,., i dont know if we can make like our own persona server
19:19:07 <skvidal> lwn had an article on it today
19:19:07 <nirik> "publisher" I guess they call it
19:19:21 <skvidal> biker: that's the whole point
19:19:33 * nirik nods.
19:19:36 <pingou> +1
19:19:48 <skvidal> so we can use apps using persona for auth
19:19:59 <skvidal> it's why we have an openid provider
19:20:01 <nirik> so, the entire idea is that we provide a personal publisher, so you can login to any persona enabled site by using your @fedoraproject.org address.
19:20:04 <pingou> like hypertitty :)
19:20:24 <biker> sweet (:
19:20:27 <nirik> pingou: yep.
19:20:31 <pingou> your @fedoraproject.org address and your FAS password
19:20:38 <nirik> right.
19:20:53 <skvidal> pingou: s/ti/ki/
19:21:02 <pingou> skvidal: indeed
19:21:02 <nirik> ok, shall we move on to exciting sysadmin news ?
19:21:08 <nirik> #topic Sysadmin status / discussion
19:21:09 <skvidal> oh yes, lets
19:21:20 <nirik> so, the fun has been fedorahosted.org this week.
19:21:29 <skvidal> 'the fun'
19:21:47 <skvidal> I 'think' I will 'talk' in 'quotes' for the rest of the 'meeting'
19:21:48 <nirik> basically it's been having load issues and isn't happy.
19:21:53 <nirik> 'yes'
19:22:07 * nirik hears skvidal talking like william shatner.
19:22:09 <pingou> skvidal: just """ now and close them at the end ;)
19:22:21 <nirik> anyhow, we have done some things to get the load back down to usable.
19:22:22 <skvidal> but I need ironic emphasis
19:22:31 <nirik> it's not great, but it should be usable right now.
19:22:40 <skvidal> nirik: it'sa darn-sight better than it was
19:22:48 <skvidal> so here's what we did
19:22:58 <skvidal> we look in gluster volume top hosted read|write|etc
19:23:00 <nirik> we are syncing all the data off it, then are going to have an outage in the next few days to move it to using ext4 directly without gluster.
19:23:17 <skvidal> oh sure - if you want to say it all quickly :)
19:23:24 <pingou> splitting ?
19:23:47 <skvidal> pingou: ?
19:23:48 <skvidal> what do you mean?
19:24:13 <pingou> do we take advantage of this and start splitting some of the project to another instance?
19:24:22 <nirik> pingou: yeah, thats the next part.
19:24:25 <skvidal> so that brings up the PLANS
19:24:28 <skvidal> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_FedoraHosted_Version2_Notes
19:25:04 <nirik> ideally the idea is that we get things seutp so we can split things by project.
19:25:15 <nirik> and have project1 and project2 on different machines, or the same...
19:25:28 <nirik> it's going to take some work to get there, but I think it's a good thing to do.
19:25:52 <skvidal> nirik: what about your other suggestion?
19:26:16 <nirik> Not sure. My other suggestion was more short term: just make a massive single instance and move everything to it.
19:26:24 <nirik> that doesn't help us scale at all
19:26:34 <nirik> but it would be simple, no changes...
19:26:48 <nirik> also, it would mean a spof for hosted.
19:26:56 <nirik> (which to be fair we currently have now too)
19:27:37 <nirik> I guess I'd like to try and finish the short term stuff and look at the list and then decide next week or so what we want to do
19:28:22 <nirik> thoughts? rants?
19:28:39 <skvidal> nirik: so I have a fear
19:28:46 <skvidal> on both things
19:29:08 <pingou> thought and rant ?
19:29:10 <skvidal> 1. if we don't move something around and stabilize it that next week we will have a NEW fire and all-hands on that
19:29:33 <nirik> well, I am hoping moving to the raw storage will help it a lot...
19:29:40 <skvidal> 2. that we're not changing things ENOUGH
19:29:41 <nirik> but I could be wrong.
19:29:42 <skvidal> in the v2
19:29:59 <pingou> skvidal: are you thinking cloud?
19:30:04 <nirik> yeah, that could be true.
19:30:09 <skvidal> pingou: no
19:30:14 <skvidal> pingou: I was actually thinking gitolite
19:30:18 <skvidal> or something like it
19:30:28 <skvidal> right now for commits we have local shell accounts
19:30:33 <skvidal> and normal unix groups
19:30:42 <skvidal> and that doesn't scale very well..
19:30:45 <pingou> oh, I thought we were using gitolite
19:30:46 <nirik> One thing is that we have been approaching it I think (or at least I have) more from a 'this is what we have, how do we safely migrate this to split it out' instead of 'hey, how would I setup to host 100 git projects with trac'
19:31:16 <skvidal> but nirik made a good a point that we're not seeing a lot of new projects being added at hosted in the recent past
19:31:22 <nirik> yeah, our ssh wrapper is... arcane.
19:31:34 <nirik> gitolite would be much much much better
19:31:46 <skvidal> nirik: so... that's fair - my argument was that if we break things out to project.fh.o - that we can try new things on new projects
19:31:49 <skvidal> nirik: or on test projects
19:31:54 <skvidal> w/o ripping up a lot of the infra
19:32:14 <skvidal> so our ssh wrapper exists afaict
19:32:18 <skvidal> b/c we support non-git repos
19:32:25 <skvidal> svn, bzr, hg
19:32:27 <nirik> right. and to be fair we wanted to do this for a long time, but we got it working 'good enough' that we put it lower pri, and... never got to it. ;)
19:32:46 <nirik> also true...
19:33:04 <pingou> as a side note, we convinced our only bzr user to move away from bzr at the last FUDCon :)
19:33:13 <skvidal> pingou: there are still remaining projects
19:33:22 <skvidal> pingou: notably only to move him to github :)
19:33:41 <pingou> skvidal: yes, still not sure how I feel about that part :s
19:33:51 <skvidal> anyway - that's immaterial
19:33:57 <skvidal> we have a number of svn and hg repos, too
19:34:01 <skvidal> some of them active
19:34:09 <nirik> so, I dunno... I guess I'd like more time to ponder on it... there doesn't seem to be a clear winner in my mind.
19:34:11 <skvidal> though, to be fair, the hg repo looks like a project graveyard
19:34:20 <skvidal> nirik: what do you mean clear-winner?
19:34:26 <skvidal> nirik: winner in which discussion?
19:35:07 <skvidal> nirik: so - we do have the scm-named CNAMES - so we can always walk away from the ssh-wrapper that way
19:35:17 <nirik> well, between: just do enough to split projects but otherwise keep setup, or just make a bigger one and leave things exactly the same, or put more work in it and do gitolite, etc.
19:35:44 <skvidal> nirik: and to be fair - that may be the simplest way to break these up git.fedorahosted.org (one big instance) and others.fedorahosted.org (other instance -not-so-big)
19:35:55 <nirik> yeah, thats an option too.
19:36:16 <skvidal> nirik: so  I really do think that if we don't change things NOW we'll get it 'working' and we will never have the time to go back to it
19:36:18 <skvidal> EVER
19:36:23 <nirik> then we could be more flexable on the git one.
19:36:23 <skvidal> it's not like we have any spare hours
19:36:31 <nirik> yep. That is very true.
19:36:49 <nirik> on the other hand, we do have lots of things to work on, so how much work on this is important...
19:36:49 <skvidal> and we still need to COMPLETE the clouds
19:36:58 <skvidal> nirik: agreed
19:36:58 <nirik> yeah
19:37:23 <skvidal> nirik: if you want to get this moving and re-approach it later that's fine
19:37:30 <skvidal> nirik: but make the call one way or the other
19:38:02 <nirik> sure. I'd just like to ponder on it possibly over weekend... been fighting the fire enough to not have had time to think about the big picture
19:38:19 <skvidal> fair enough
19:38:43 <nirik> and hopefully it will be stable enough to do that. ;)
19:39:20 <nirik> ok, any other sysadminy news?
19:39:41 <nirik> #topic Private Cloud status update / discussion
19:39:52 <nirik> I think we have done nothing really cloud wise this week. ;)
19:39:59 <nirik> see above hosted doom.
19:40:13 <nirik> #topic Upcoming Tasks/Items
19:40:25 <nirik> #info 2013-03-19 to 2013-03-26 - koji update
19:40:25 <nirik> #info 2013-03-29 - spring holiday.
19:40:25 <nirik> #info 2013-04-02 to 2013-04-16 ALPHA infrastructure freeze
19:40:25 <nirik> #info 2013-04-15 - remove legacy-openid
19:40:26 <nirik> #info 2013-04-16 F19 alpha release
19:40:27 <nirik> #info 2013-05-07 to 2013-05-21 BETA infrastructure freeze
19:40:28 <nirik> #info 2013-05-21 F19 beta release
19:40:30 <nirik> #info 2013-05-31 end of 1st quarter
19:40:32 <nirik> #info 2013-06-11 to 2013-06-25 FINAL infrastructure freeze.
19:40:33 <nirik> #info 2013-06-25 F19 FINAL release
19:40:36 <nirik> anything anyone wants to schedule or note?
19:41:01 <biker> i wanna say something on the open floor (if there is one) :P
19:41:07 <nirik> yep... coming up. ;)
19:41:12 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
19:41:16 <nirik> go ahead. ;)
19:41:17 <pingou> 2013-06-30 pingou's end of work
19:41:20 <biker> hehe thanks :P
19:41:33 <nirik> pingou: ?
19:41:39 <biker> well ive been a fedora ambassador since last year,., but im also a student,., and i would like to participate on the google summer of code
19:41:55 <biker> and it would be great to help in the fedora infrastructure (:
19:42:01 <pingou> nirik: hopefully at that time I'll have my thesis submitted and I can start actually working
19:42:10 <nirik> pingou: ah ha. Cool.
19:42:17 <nirik> biker: ah. great. ;)
19:42:22 <pingou> biker: cool
19:42:33 <nirik> biker: there was talk on our list not long back about doing some kind of team mentoring...
19:42:34 <pingou> biker: any ideas on what you would like to do ?
19:42:45 <biker> so on the fedora wiki ideas,., there is this one: Implement a unit test framework for fedpkg and rpkg
19:43:21 <biker> that sound great (: but if someone has a better idea in that i could work,., .. (:
19:43:49 <pingou> unfortunately the contact disapeared for this subject apparently
19:44:08 <pingou> yeah, it was Jesse
19:44:17 <pingou> .whoowns fedpkg
19:44:17 <zodbot> pingou: ausil
19:44:42 <biker> damn hehe,., so any other projects or ideas you may have,., i can check them (
19:44:42 <pingou> biker: you should contact ausil for this subject and see with him if he is still interested
19:44:43 <biker> (:
19:44:47 <nirik> yeah, dgilmore doesn't have time to mentor
19:45:06 <biker> pingou, okok thanks (:
19:45:09 <nirik> (at least I am pretty sure)
19:45:16 <nirik> anyhow, you could also ask on the list...
19:45:17 <biker> any other project that could be done? (:
19:45:24 <pingou> biker: what do you like ?
19:45:35 <pingou> I'm sure we can find a bunch of projects :D
19:46:28 <biker> pingou, i know python (and some django), C, QT, java, some php
19:46:59 <nirik> biker: you might ask over in #fedora-apps, (but probibly monday would be best)
19:47:03 <pingou> biker: and you like more web app dev, desktop application dev, CLI, library work ?
19:47:34 <biker> nirik, ,., thanks (: ill try then on monday. is there a meeting or monday or just more people? :P
19:47:46 <nirik> biker: many folks are gone to pycon this week.
19:47:51 <nirik> they should be back next week
19:47:57 <biker> nirik, o okok (:
19:48:06 <biker> pingou, humm well i dont like a lot web app dev :P
19:48:10 <nirik> hopefully we can find something interesting for you. ;)
19:48:12 <biker> but for the others i can try on (:
19:48:18 <biker> nirik, :D
19:48:37 <nirik> ok, anything else for open floor?
19:48:46 <biker> i havent done much coding for opensource, so i dont know if web app, or cli, or library :p
19:49:04 <pingou> fedocal in stg, testers welcome :)
19:49:12 <biker> im studying EE, so i also know a lot of microcontrollers, some hardware and stuff (:
19:49:20 <nirik> pingou: I've not had a chance to look at that redirect issue. ;(
19:49:37 <pingou> nirik: me neither :(
19:49:53 <pingou> nirik: but all the rest seems to work fine
19:49:55 <nirik> biker: we don't do too much direct hardware work. :)
19:50:23 <biker> nirik, yeah i know, but maybe i could try to do a driver or something (: though i still dont know how to make drivers :P
19:50:49 <nirik> biker: most of that work is done upstream in the kernel community... and we just use their hard work.
19:50:59 <biker> oo okok (:
19:51:29 <biker> so yeah,., ill ask next week on #fedora-apps,.,
19:51:39 <nirik> great. :) Thanks for coming biker.
19:51:51 <biker> thanks to all (:
19:51:56 <biker> ill try to be here next meeting (:
19:51:57 <nirik> and welcome again jerzyr
19:52:03 <jerzyr> thx
19:52:07 <nirik> everyone welcome. :)
19:52:19 <nirik> lets continue over in #fedora-admin, #fedora-apps or #fedora-noc. ;)
19:52:23 <nirik> #endmeeting