14:00:02 <randomuser`> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr  1 14:00:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is randomuser`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:11 <randomuser`> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:19 <randomuser`> #topic Roll Call
14:00:24 * bcotton is here
14:01:29 <randomuser`> morning, bcotton
14:02:46 * jreznik is around
14:02:49 * jjmcd 
14:02:54 <jreznik> (just needs a sec)
14:04:24 * Sparks is here
14:05:56 <randomuser`> Not a lot of topics to cover today, let's get started
14:06:11 <randomuser`> #topic Follow up on Action Items
14:06:21 <randomuser`> #info there are no pending action items
14:06:53 <randomuser`> #topic Docs Infrastructure
14:07:20 <randomuser`> I'm holding the topic in the agenda almost out of habit - it seems to be in rudi's capable hands
14:07:30 <randomuser`> does anyone have news or questions?
14:10:23 <randomuser`> fair enough
14:10:48 <randomuser`> #topic #Beat Assignments
14:11:12 <randomuser`> Thanks to everyone that has taken a beat so far
14:11:44 <randomuser`> I'll send out an announcement/reminder that the beats are open in the immediate future
14:12:30 <randomuser`> there is one part here that I need help with - the hardware overview section
14:12:59 <randomuser`> jjmcd, bcotton, Sparks - where have we traditionally gotten the info for system requirements?
14:13:26 <Sparks> randomuser`: It's better to just not ask and use a dart board
14:13:32 <randomuser`> heh
14:13:34 <jjmcd> Typically we just copy the previous release, and then get beat up on by devs
14:13:52 <jjmcd> It is usually, and Sparks say, kind of a dart board thing
14:14:04 <jjmcd> because the devs don't usually agree among themselves
14:14:12 <randomuser`> I sent an email to the anaconda-devel list along the lines of "I'm writing the release notes, and want help with system requirements"
14:14:20 <jjmcd> Good start
14:14:41 <jjmcd> You might get 5 or 6 opinions that way instead of the two or 3 we normally have
14:14:52 <randomuser`> dcantrell responded this morning, saying that I should check the release notes for that info :/
14:15:07 <randomuser`> thought I'd bring it up here before I reply
14:15:41 <jjmcd> I would expect the test guys to have the best info
14:16:18 <randomuser`> It was also suggested that I bring it up on -devel, for them to discuss various applications (desktop, appliance, etc) and requirements
14:16:33 <jreznik> -devel is not a bad idea
14:16:58 <jjmcd> Sure is a pain to wade through, tho
14:16:59 <randomuser`> I can mail the test list too; #fedora-qa has told me more than one to just try booting with my low memory machine and see what happens
14:17:35 <jjmcd> Problem is anaconda is usually the culprit, so booting a stick doesn't give you much help
14:18:01 <randomuser`> so, we have one vote for shotgunning the community, one vote for the dartboard?
14:18:14 <jjmcd> For the past few releases we can run on far less memory than it takes to install
14:18:43 * randomuser` nods
14:18:56 <randomuser`> that's why I went to the anaconda devs first
14:19:02 <jjmcd> yeah
14:19:22 <jjmcd> Of course, they all have quad-core, 16Gb machines
14:19:48 <randomuser`> as well they should!
14:20:53 <randomuser`> I guess I'll keep poking around until we get relative consensus from the community, or someone breaks my poking stick
14:24:02 <randomuser`> moving on, then
14:24:20 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BX Tickets
14:24:26 <randomuser`> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:24:40 <randomuser`> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:24:56 <randomuser`> Any bugs we should discuss?
14:29:30 <randomuser`> no bug complaints!
14:29:32 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:29:42 <jreznik> ok, so time for me :)
14:29:56 <jjmcd> rut roh
14:30:15 <jreznik> and back to features/changes/release notes tracking :)
14:30:44 <randomuser`> Ah - did you want a declared topic for this, jreznik ?
14:31:13 <jreznik> randomuser`: it's up to you
14:31:29 <randomuser`> #topic features/changes/release notes tracking
14:31:44 <jreznik> I created a new changes (was features) template - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JaroslavReznik/ChangeProposalTemplate
14:31:55 <jreznik> and also FeatureList is not more than list a set of changes
14:32:05 <jreznik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/ChangeSet
14:32:25 <randomuser`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JaroslavReznik/ChangeProposalTemplate
14:32:38 <randomuser`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/ChangeSet\
14:32:45 <jreznik> and the idea is to collect as much info in one place, not to duplicate the lists, got out of sync etc.
14:32:55 <jreznik> so the question is - what would you like to see there?
14:33:15 <jreznik> (this draft was already approved by fesco btw)
14:33:56 <randomuser`> I like the draft, and have no concerns about the process as you've described it
14:34:40 <jreznik> randomuser`: it's more how (and if even - but as a follow up to that old mail I think yes) do you want to use
14:35:15 <randomuser`> Although, we *could* express our expectations for the release notes section in the template somehow
14:36:51 <randomuser`> the comments in place are pretty good though- perhaps just add a sentence to let them know we don't expect polish
14:36:53 <jreznik> and for release notes/other docs related items tracking
14:37:04 <jreznik> randomuser`: ok
14:39:32 <jreznik> so please let me know - we can extend it everytime, but I really like to see change page and change set list as a point of collaboration, not owned only be developers
14:40:09 <randomuser`> I don't know if it would help to use that to track whether we have documented a change, someone would have to manually reset the marker every time they change the page
14:40:54 <randomuser`> and tracking application of the change to the release notes and all current guides could get bulky
14:41:47 <jreznik> I meant more tracking release notes owner, status etc.
14:42:54 <jreznik> one reason to do it this way would be that change set is really an updated list of changes we are really going to have in release - to avoid situation where feature was already deferred by other people were still considering it as a part of release notes, announcement etc.
14:43:11 <randomuser`> that helps
14:44:22 <randomuser`> tracking release notes owner and status is probably a good idea, yeah
14:45:07 <jreznik> if you would like to have more, or you have an idea how status should looks like - tell me
14:45:27 <randomuser`> I think you're doing a good job of planning this out, jreznik, you don't leave us much to complain about
14:45:53 * jreznik is going to merge it this week to the right place from my personal wiki namespace
14:46:17 <jreznik> (and I'll let you know when it's done - so you could edit the rn section too)
14:46:37 <jreznik> btw. the changeset is going to be automatically generated from change proposal page
14:46:45 <randomuser`> cool
14:48:34 <randomuser`> hmm... if we're stating developer and relnotes owner, we might want to track development and relnotes status separately
14:48:46 <jreznik> randomuser`: indeed
14:49:35 <randomuser`> I'll bump up the thread on our mailing list with the new links and info, perhaps the group might have more to say after digesting
14:49:38 <jreznik> the developer status is going to be tracked in a bug
14:49:53 <jreznik> so I expect the same could be done also for release notes
14:50:33 <jreznik> randomuser`: thanks for ml :)
14:51:01 <randomuser`> sure - maybe with a overall blocker bug to associate change bugs to
14:52:18 <jreznik> we can follow up in mailing list - to have more opinions (but /me would really like to see some feedback ;-)
14:52:25 <randomuser`> agreed
14:52:49 <randomuser`> #action randomuser to prod mailing list about changes process - jreznik would like feedback
14:53:30 <randomuser`> Let's give everyone another chance to bring up other concerns before our time is up
14:53:32 <jreznik> thanks, that's all from me for now but I'd like to finish the process this week, so we can start F20 planning... yes, F20...
14:53:42 <randomuser`> #topic Open Floor Discussion
15:00:09 <randomuser`> That wraps it up, then, thanks for cioming
15:00:14 <randomuser`> #endmeeting