19:00:10 <suehle> #startmeeting
19:00:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 19:00:10 2013 UTC.  The chair is suehle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:19 <suehle> #meeting name Fedora marketing team
19:00:27 <suehle> #meetingname Fedora marketing team
19:00:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing_team'
19:00:33 <suehle> #topic rooooll call
19:01:23 * jsmith is half-here
19:01:42 * jreznik is around, would like to ask marketing a question :)
19:01:45 <suehle> We're at one and a half! :D
19:01:49 <suehle> And a question!
19:02:10 * rbergeron is 1/4 here
19:02:12 <jsmith> Two and a half -- plus a question -- that almost makes a party
19:02:19 <rbergeron> if we keep going we could get seriously fractional
19:02:20 <jsmith> Two and three-quarters
19:02:35 <jsmith> We could be the fraction faction?
19:02:45 * suehle is not responsible for cleaning up partial humans
19:03:08 <suehle> well, what's your question jreznik?
19:03:39 <jreznik> to be honest, /me is 10% here as he's quite tired and watching fringe in the tv :)
19:03:51 <suehle> What season?
19:04:02 <suehle> You have to pay attention to that thing. It'll get away from you.
19:05:01 <jreznik> suehle: to the question - I'd like to start the new planning process as soon as possible, have a deal with fesco, today with docs... one missing piece - how to track changes you'd like to feature/shine?
19:06:12 <suehle> I'm open to suggestion. What's easiest from your perspective?
19:06:53 <jreznik> a flag in the proposal? the new template is nearly ready https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EmptyTemplate
19:07:20 <jreznik> then I can automatically process it to the "changeset" (was feature list)
19:07:28 <rbergeron> jreznik: i assume you saw my comments on the list back at beginning of april
19:07:45 <jsmith> jreznik: For me, it's not just about highlighting things that we want to shine -- It's also about highlighting significant changes that will otherwise catch people off-guard
19:07:51 <jreznik> rbergeron: remind me pls
19:08:36 <rbergeron> jreznik: when you brought up the process stuff on list
19:08:57 <jreznik> maybe I missed this one, /me is going to take a look
19:09:19 <rbergeron> jsmith: but is the "highlight significant things" more applicable to docs (as far as OMG CHANGE) than marketing?
19:09:24 <jreznik> crappy AP - the net is so slow in the spot I am
19:09:26 <rbergeron> it seems like they'd split and perhaps merge back together again
19:10:03 <jsmith> rbergeron: Can me, but doesn't have to be.  I think we should market both "shiny new features" and "significant changes" -- but it's not a big deal to me if marketing only wants to focus on one
19:10:30 <rbergeron> well
19:10:37 <rbergeron> it can be "whatever they want to do" really :)
19:10:50 <rbergeron> I think we could generally call it "things that need a spotlight"
19:11:08 <jreznik> rbergeron: ok, found it and yep, I missed this one, sorry
19:11:10 <rbergeron> whaever they might be - but it's still split off fromthe general process of All the Features
19:11:34 * jsmith agrees
19:11:36 <rbergeron> jreznik: no biggie, i hardly remember what i wrote at this point :)
19:12:00 <suehle> Which applies might depend on what the change is
19:12:11 <suehle> so yeah, I'm with "things that need spotlight [of some sort]"
19:12:11 <rbergeron> jreznik: maybe it would be useful to have a docs+mktg meeting
19:14:17 <jreznik> rbergeron: with docs, we solved more than that technical thing - how to track the progress of release notes, who's assigned - the same way as for devel - using bugzilla but for this cross-team - what to pick up, what to document, feature and how to make it fit together - I'm ok with it
19:15:04 <jreznik> but I like what you wrote - that's something I'd like to catch - and the reason why I'd like to sync all people who cares about changes to one place
19:15:14 <rbergeron> jreznik: ack. /me has to hop on a call super fast for a few min
19:15:19 <rbergeron> sorry
19:15:22 <jreznik> to be able to say what was added, what removed etc.
19:15:34 <suehle> so let's do a meeting for it, or even just tell the mktg people to show up to the docs meeting next week for simplicity
19:15:53 <jreznik> rbergeron: np
19:15:58 <jsmith> That works for me
19:16:32 <jreznik> suehle, jsmith: that would be awesome to show up on docs meeting or vice versa - docs guys to this meeting
19:16:54 <jsmith> I *try* to show up to both, although I haven't made either for last month or two
19:16:59 <jreznik> would docs meeting works for you? that would be even easier
19:17:07 * jsmith is doing two jobs at the moment :-(
19:17:19 <jsmith> jreznik: Yeah, that's fine
19:17:31 <suehle> Yeah, that's totally fine. More people show up for docs regularly, so I think it makes more sense to go to them.
19:17:54 <jreznik> ok, I'll talk to docs guys, let them know
19:18:59 <jreznik> as I said - I think we have a deal about that technical pov, how and if we make that what together with docs, marketing, it would be super cool - as there's some overlap
19:20:02 <jreznik> thanks
19:20:16 <suehle> Send a message to mktg list letting them know to show up as well
19:20:43 <jreznik> ok
19:21:20 <suehle> #topic alpha notes
19:21:40 <suehle> I took a spin through, and as rbergeron just mentioned on list, it's go time for them, so if anyone has changes, notes, additions, etc., now's the time
19:22:19 <suehle> s/notes/release announcement
19:22:22 <suehle> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F19_Alpha_release_announcement
19:23:31 <jreznik> I like that new format (create and develop,  deploy etc.)
19:24:54 <suehle> #topic open floor
19:25:09 <jreznik> otherwise I think it covers Alpha pretty well
19:25:51 <jreznik> suehle: so I expect you consider it at least for now as "the final" alpha announcement, true? if no one objects?
19:26:59 <rbergeron> back
19:27:21 <suehle> jreznik, I'd say so
19:27:26 <rbergeron> jreznik: i told dgilmore i'd format it tonight for "email purposes" and ship it to him to send
19:27:32 <suehle> rbergeron, do you/dgilmore need help with that?
19:27:36 <rbergeron> and i'll try and write up a "how to strip the formatting" mail
19:27:43 <rbergeron> so people know how to do it for the FUUUUUTURE
19:28:09 <rbergeron> jreznik: it might be worthwhile to have as a note for the readiness meeting to sync who from marketing will send it to dennis
19:28:18 <rbergeron> or to whoever might be filling in for dennis if he's out
19:28:41 <rbergeron> I'd almost say "put it in a ticket" but the formatting tends to go to hell there
19:29:43 <dgilmore> rbergeron: as long as we know who to bug if need be
19:31:21 <rbergeron> dgilmore: ack
19:31:24 <jreznik> rbergeron: well, maybe it would make sense that one person sends all release notes (alpha, beta, final)? not pointing on you :)
19:31:46 <rbergeron> jreznik: well, releng has always sent alpha/beta, FPL for final
19:32:12 <rbergeron> I think it works out decently well that way
19:32:28 <rbergeron> or do you mean "one person sends the copy of the notes written on the wiki"
19:32:42 <jreznik> rbergeron: I know, historically - and I don't want to steal fame for relengs for alpha just last time it did not work as well for beta at least
19:32:57 <jreznik> rbergeron: that could be a second step
19:33:04 <dgilmore> jreznik: i dont remeber what the issue was then
19:33:10 <dgilmore> can you refresh my memory?
19:33:18 <jreznik> dgilmore: there were no release notes ready at all
19:33:29 * suehle senses the need for some process documentation
19:33:31 <jreznik> so nothing has been sent
19:33:46 <dgilmore> jreznik: ok, so that has nothing to do with who sends it
19:34:02 <jreznik> suehle: and one person does alpha/beta, other does final is not very "process friendly"
19:34:25 <dgilmore> jreznik: that doesnt make sense to me
19:34:55 <dgilmore> jreznik: the process would say for alpha/beta its sent by releng and final by FPL
19:35:06 <jreznik> dgilmore: I mean more one person to be responsible for the process, less space for mistakes aka no release notes, nothing will be sent etc
19:35:23 <jreznik> dgilmore: actually I fixed this in SOP if I remember it correctly
19:36:14 <dgilmore> jreznik: sorry i dont get what your saying
19:38:05 <suehle> jreznik, in the release notes SOP?
19:38:25 <jreznik> dgilmore: I added the releng part with fallback to me to alpha/beta sop, also with to what mailing lists it should be posted
19:38:31 <jreznik> as a reaction to f18 beta
19:38:45 <jreznik> suehle: yep, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Beta_announcement_SOP
19:39:28 <dgilmore> jreznik: i would think fallback should be FPL not you
19:39:49 <jreznik> dgilmore: not a problem for me, I just wanted to have a fallback
19:39:55 <dgilmore> jreznik: but not having notes at all is very differeent to not having someone to send them
19:40:11 <dgilmore> and your saying there was no notes to send
19:40:21 <dgilmore> not that I wasnt around to send them
19:40:49 <rgeri77> hello
19:41:18 <jreznik> dgilmore: it was more about having a track of the state of announcement - my point was - one person to do it would lead to less errors... someone who knows where to look, who to contact if something is wrong
19:41:48 <nirik> FWIW, I don't care who sends, just so long as we all know who that is so we can bug them. ;)
19:41:56 <jreznik> dgilmore: that's not what I'm saying, and actually one person to do them all is not my idea (someone proposed it that time for the same reason)
19:42:27 <dgilmore> nirik: right i feel like this is nit picking and not really productive at all. so long as we know who is to send and who is to write them
19:42:32 * suehle notes (heh) that release notes and release announcements aren't the same, and I think this conversation keeps interchanging them
19:43:04 <dgilmore> suehle: i dont think its productive and im stepping out of it.
19:44:11 <jreznik> dgilmore: to make it back productive - what would work best for you - a ticket as rbergeron suggested or any other option?
19:44:15 <suehle> dgilmore, I assume by "it" you mean "this conversation" and not "I'm not doing the mail"?
19:44:56 <dgilmore> suehle: yes this conversation
19:45:27 <rbergeron> I think we just need to sync it as an item at the readiness - just make sure that we all know who is sending who the announcement to send
19:45:34 <rbergeron> I do'nt think we need a large amount of overhead :)
19:45:54 <rbergeron> it historicaly went just fine and the one time it didn't there wasn't someone to send the thing, and the thing to send didn't exist
19:46:00 * nirik thinks the releng for alpha/beta, fpl for final works fine... just yeah, make sure we are ready with what to send.
19:46:15 <rbergeron> so I write that off to "bad luck and circumstances" and beyond that I think we are all overly paranoid about it now :)
19:48:38 <dgilmore> rbergeron: +1
19:49:07 * jreznik was disconnected for a moment :(
19:50:48 <suehle> ...so do we have some sort of agreement?
19:51:11 <rbergeron> i think so
19:51:17 <dgilmore> suehle: i think so, keep it as it has been
19:52:11 <suehle> Anything else anybody needed to discuss in this meeting?
19:53:18 <suehle> ok then!
19:53:21 <suehle> #endmeeting