06:03:09 <tagoh_> #startmeeting i18n
06:03:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 25 06:03:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is tagoh_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:03:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:03:10 <tagoh_> #meetingname i18n
06:03:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:03:10 <tagoh_> #topic agenda and roll call
06:03:11 <tagoh_> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2013-04-25
06:03:16 <tagoh_> okay, shall we have i18n meeting
06:03:17 <mfabian> hi
06:03:20 <epico> hi
06:03:30 <paragan> hi
06:03:59 <pravins> hi
06:04:45 <anish__> hi
06:05:12 <Alam> hi
06:05:25 <juhp> hi
06:05:35 <fujiwarat> hi
06:05:47 <tagoh_> okay, let's get started
06:06:02 <tagoh_> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:06:02 <tagoh_> #info 2013-05-02        Test_Day:2013-05-02_Localization_(i18n)
06:06:03 <tagoh_> #info 2013-05-06        Wiki Freeze: Beta Release Notes
06:06:03 <tagoh_> #info 2013-05-07        Software Translation Deadline
06:06:03 <tagoh_> #info 2013-05-14        Beta Change Deadline
06:06:04 <tagoh_> #info 2013-05-14        Features 100% Complete
06:06:05 <tagoh_> #info 2013-05-28        Beta Release
06:06:41 <tagoh_> well, as you know alpha is out now, and we'll have i18n test day next Thursday
06:07:51 <tagoh_> #topic Outstanding topics
06:07:51 <tagoh_> #info #16: Improving testcases/matrix for i18n test day (tagoh)
06:07:52 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/16
06:08:11 <tagoh_> so have you checked your test cases and updated if necessary?
06:10:39 <tagoh_> pravins, paragan: do we need to update harfbuzz stuff this time?
06:11:13 <pravins> tagoh_: i think yes
06:12:18 <tagoh_> pravins: can you do it asap?
06:12:28 <tagoh_> juhp: how about yum-langpacks?
06:12:56 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: and ibus?
06:14:24 <tagoh_> epico: libpinyin?
06:14:28 <pravins> tagoh_: yes, i will work on it
06:14:47 <epico> tagoh_, I think it is the same.
06:14:48 <tagoh_> okay, good
06:15:18 <juhp> ah
06:15:32 <tagoh_> epico: no new features or something you may want testers to test?
06:15:53 <juhp> paragan, have you thought about yum-langpacks testing?
06:16:42 <tagoh_> paragan: inscript2?
06:16:54 <epico> tagoh_, I will add some about dictionaries.
06:17:01 <tagoh_> epico: okay
06:18:26 <paragan> yes we can have yum-langpacks teting
06:18:36 <paragan> just tested on f19 successfully
06:18:48 <paragan> inscript2 yes we should do again testing
06:19:34 <juhp> tagoh_, btw is there a page for the testday?
06:19:37 <tagoh_> paragan: we have test cases for yum-langpacks already. just asking for updates as needed
06:19:57 <tagoh_> juhp: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-02_Localization_(i18n)
06:20:04 <juhp> ah yeah
06:20:16 <juhp> sorry - got confused by the name again....
06:20:33 <tagoh_> np - it's there in the agenda page anyway
06:20:39 <juhp> yep
06:21:10 <juhp> I think we should add cases about langinstall and langinfo maybe?
06:21:25 <juhp> paragan, can you draft those?
06:21:42 <paragan> I will update that test case to test for langinfo command
06:21:47 <juhp> great
06:21:52 <paragan> yes other command also need to be updated
06:22:00 <juhp> thanks
06:23:04 <juhp> maybe langinstall is not working on f19?
06:23:17 <tagoh_> be aware of the schedule for test day. it's next Thursday! we have to keep up-to-date before starting. otherwise I'm planning to just drop it there. outdated test cases makes no sense and getting confused.
06:24:02 <paragan> juhp, all commands are working fine on f19
06:24:09 <juhp> okay great
06:24:20 * paragan goed to edit langpacks test case
06:25:03 <tagoh_> paragan: thanks
06:25:37 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any comments for ibus?
06:27:47 <fujiwarat> I think the current test case is ok for ibus.
06:29:00 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: actually we have two test cases for ibus though - one is generic testing, one is gnome ibus integration stuff. does both work in even f19?
06:30:22 <fujiwarat> I think so.
06:31:09 <tagoh_> no additional testing for new features etc?
06:31:50 <tagoh_> paragan: how about inscript2?
06:32:57 <pravins> tagoh_: existing harfbuzz test cases looks good, no need to update
06:33:04 <paragan> nothing new in inscript2
06:33:08 <tagoh_> once you've updated test cases, please add a comment in the ticket. that would be easier to see what's done and not.
06:33:21 <paragan> but we should test them with new IM interface in Gnome 3.8
06:33:32 <tagoh_> paragan: right
06:33:45 <tagoh_> in fact I've updated IM setup stuff for new UI
06:33:45 <paragan> will update testcases accordingly today
06:33:53 <paragan> aha
06:33:55 <tagoh_> cool
06:35:04 <tagoh_> maybe good to check all of test cases again if it's actually testable on f19.
06:35:24 <tagoh_> if you all didn't do that yet
06:35:47 <paragan> sure
06:36:19 <tagoh_> pravins: okay, thanks
06:36:40 <tagoh_> so anything else?
06:37:18 <tagoh_> if you have any suggestions on those test cases, feel free to update.
06:38:17 <tagoh_> or bring it up on irc, mail etc
06:38:49 <tagoh_> let's move on
06:38:55 <tagoh_> #info #18: F19 i18n docbeats (tagoh)
06:38:55 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/18
06:39:12 <tagoh_> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_I18n_Beat
06:39:46 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: any news about ibus? did you get anything about 1.5.2?
06:44:51 <fujiwarat> Yes, ibus 1.5.2 is now available in updates-testing.
06:45:01 <juhp> (I hope m17n rendering will improve in blink...)
06:45:21 <juhp> fujiwarat, what do you want to mention in the relnotes for ibus?
06:45:56 <fujiwarat> gnome-shell feature will be 3.10. sorry.
06:46:55 <juhp> which one?
06:47:21 <juhp> fujiwarat, no news for ibus since f18?
06:48:49 <fujiwarat> about running the second input source.
06:48:50 <juhp> are there any upstream release notes?
06:49:06 <juhp> ah
06:50:05 <juhp> I guess f18-final shipped "1.5.0" and since then 2 releases 1.5.1 and 1.5.2
06:50:43 <juhp> some brief summary of any larger changes would be nice to have in the fedora relnotes
06:52:03 * tagoh_ added shortcut key stuff
06:53:28 <juhp> thanks
06:54:22 <fujiwarat> use-system-keyboard option is now enabled but it works for non gnome.
06:55:36 <tagoh_> anything else?
06:55:52 * juhp is running out of battery - brb
06:59:17 <fujiwarat> ibus now removed the dependency of gnome-icon-theme-legacy so it's also good that each ibus engine does not depend on it too.
07:01:48 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: sure. do you think it's good to mention in relnotes?
07:02:48 <juhp> the last one sounds more like something for bz
07:03:03 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: Probably I don't think to update release note but just fyi.
07:04:38 <fujiwarat> ibus 1.5.2 also includes man pages. I will talk with upstream to be integrated later.
07:05:27 <tagoh_> fujiwarat: okay, anything else you want to mention in relnotes? can you add larger changes since 1.5.0 into relnotes? which would be good to inform users?
07:06:24 <fujiwarat> fedora ibus 1.5.2 also includes man pages.
07:07:13 <fujiwarat> tagoh_: ok, I will update relnotes about use-system-layout for non gnome.
07:07:54 <tagoh_> okay
07:09:35 <tagoh_> we still have a time. if you have any idea, please add it into relnotes.
07:09:53 <tagoh_> move on
07:10:05 <tagoh_> #topic New topic
07:10:05 <tagoh_> #info #19: gnu-free-fonts issue for Indic (aalam)
07:10:06 <tagoh_> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/19
07:10:41 <tagoh_> Alam: sorry for taking a long time until bringing this up.
07:10:50 <Alam> tagoh_: np
07:11:16 <Alam> Rendering from gnome desktop is not good till gnu-free-fonts are on system
07:11:29 <tagoh_> .bug 956192
07:11:32 <zodbot> tagoh_: Bug 956192 [hi_IN] Rendering is broken in gnome-shell for some text, while for other - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=956192
07:13:53 <Alam> why gnu-free-fonts are default in somewhere (gnome-shell and gedit), while not in other part (like Alt+2 in gnome-shell) in  Hindi (or other Indic) Desktop
07:14:44 <Alam> if user install with gnome desktop and start with hindi, rendering is broken by default
07:15:13 <tagoh_> hmm, can't say off hand. need to have a look more carefully.
07:15:22 <tagoh_> anyone has any idea?
07:15:27 <juhp> Alam, I guess they are not installed by default in alpha?
07:18:03 <tagoh_> Alam: how about specifying a font in gedit say?
07:19:16 <juhp> pravins, can you have a look?
07:19:36 <Alam> tagoh_: then it can be changed (correct rendering)
07:19:46 <tagoh_> aha. okay
07:20:49 <Alam> juhp: I have installed gnome and KDE,
07:21:01 <juhp> aha
07:21:10 <tagoh_> Alam: well, maybe good to try fc-match monospace and so on. default family on fc-match is sans but gedit should uses monospace
07:21:13 <Alam> but now if I use 'yum groupinstall "gnome-desktop"' then gnu-free* fonts are there
07:21:20 <Alam> in installation list
07:21:27 <juhp> oh
07:21:32 <juhp> hm
07:22:19 <juhp> Alam, post-Alpha install?
07:22:23 <Alam> fc-match monospace  "freeSans.ttf: "FreeSans"
07:22:52 <Alam> juhp: pre-alpha (TC5 I think)
07:23:36 <juhp> Alam, there was yum breakage earlier causing all optional packages in groups to be installed
07:24:04 <juhp> ah anyway doh - gnu-free are installed by default...
07:24:08 <juhp> hmm
07:24:11 <Alam> but I updated daily (currently latest yum)
07:24:19 <juhp> so nm
07:24:37 <juhp> anyway good catch
07:25:53 <tagoh_> no monospaced fonts in lohit right?
07:26:22 <Alam> pravins: ^ ^
07:27:47 <juhp> let's try to ask him later then
07:28:00 <tagoh_> given that it sounds more like an RFE rather than a bug
07:28:43 <tagoh_> well, about using gnu-free-fonts
07:29:20 <tagoh_> of course there are a bug in gnu-free-fonts that not rendering Indic correctly
07:29:55 <Alam> yes, there is problem in fonts itself
07:30:24 <Alam> do we have any plan to fix those (even in long term)?
07:32:06 <tagoh_> dunno. it has to be escalated to upstream at least.
07:32:45 <tagoh_> providing monospace in lohit, good to ask pravins
07:32:51 <Alam> hmm yes, rendering issue should be upstreamed
07:33:29 <juhp> but many gnu-free needs "fixing" to avoid this problem?
07:33:35 <juhp> erm maybe
07:34:01 <tagoh_> yes, rendering issue is in gnu-free-fonts right
07:34:15 <juhp> I mean in fedora font .conf
07:34:38 <tagoh_> if we have any alternative monospaced fonts for Indic, it could be a workaround.
07:34:50 <juhp> we don't want broken devanagari appearing on the desktop
07:35:11 <juhp> so maybe we should not use gnu-free for Indic
07:35:32 <tagoh_> that said do we have any monospaced fonts for Indic?
07:36:09 <mfabian> Maybe a silly question, but do monospaced fonts make any sense for devanagari script?
07:37:12 <juhp> nod
07:37:39 <juhp> so that text is in monospace - from the screenshot it seems monospace is not needed
07:38:09 <juhp> s/in monospace/in monospace?/
07:39:23 <tagoh_> hm, good question - dunno. guess not.
07:40:35 <juhp> Alam, does removing gnu-free fix the problem?
07:40:41 <Alam> juhp: yes
07:40:45 <tagoh_> maybe could contains monospaced ASCII characters + non-monospaced Indic characters?
07:41:01 <juhp> ah yeah you wrote so
07:43:34 <tagoh_> well, on f19, gnu-free-fonts can be excluded for Indic. let me add a comment later.
07:44:08 <Alam> ok, that will help atleast for time being
07:44:29 <tagoh_> that maybe somewhat makes sense other than providing pseudo-monospaced fonts
07:45:28 <tagoh_> okay, shall we move on then
07:45:49 <tagoh_> #topic Open Floor
07:45:58 <tagoh_> anything else before closing this meeting?
07:46:02 <Alam> tagoh_: few more bugs I have concern about fedora 19
07:46:04 <Alam> .bug 956458
07:46:07 <zodbot> Alam: Bug 956458 [Language & Region] English Layout need to add by default if selecting (Few) languages layout (like Indic) - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=956458
07:46:36 <Alam> during Translation test day it was major issue as tester add local keyboard and forgot to add English
07:46:50 <Alam> then not able to unlock screen or Login (if logout)
07:47:02 <tagoh_> is it reported to upstream?
07:47:05 <Alam> shoud not English layout by default add for Indic locales
07:47:09 <Alam> no started in Fedora only
07:47:28 <Alam> to collect i18n feedback (if you think then can file upstream)
07:47:28 <tagoh_> can you file a bug upstream then?
07:48:06 <Alam> k
07:48:18 <fujiwarat> zodbot: bug 953404
07:48:22 <zodbot> fujiwarat: Bug 953404 should change the default keybinding to Super+space? - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=953404
07:48:31 <fujiwarat> any comments?
07:49:21 <Alam> I love to Use Super +space in KDE
07:49:36 <epico> nice feature. :)
07:49:48 <Alam> it is same in Windows
07:50:24 <tagoh_> dunno if super+space is really good one but wanted to keep consistency among desktops. that's it.
07:50:36 <mfabian> I also think Super+space is OK.
07:51:06 <mfabian> And, as Tagoh san says, whatever it is, it should be consistent among desktops.
07:51:48 <Alam> yes, but it will be major change for language user from F18->F19
07:52:35 <tagoh_> Alam: that said it has already happened on at least GNOME.
07:53:03 <Alam> yes, but user have to get it with F19
07:54:02 <Alam> need to include in rel-notes?
07:54:13 <tagoh_> if we do, yes
07:54:39 <juhp> +1
07:54:46 <tagoh_> +1 from me
07:56:02 <tagoh_> well, anything else?
07:56:32 <Alam> .bug 861299
07:56:34 <zodbot> Alam: Bug 861299 [LANG] Text on Screensaver is truncated - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=861299
07:57:20 <Alam> if need to upstream (gnome)?
07:58:13 <juhp> .bug 861299
07:58:15 <tagoh_> there should be a known similar bug in gtk+. dunno if it's the same to this
07:58:15 <zodbot> juhp: Bug 861299 [LANG] Text on Screensaver is truncated - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=861299
07:58:22 <juhp> ugh
07:59:23 <tagoh_> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607419
08:00:30 <juhp> I don't really think bold is necessary in the screensaver screen (or maybe even the lockscreen;) but yeah seems some rendering issue with artificial bold I guess?
08:00:32 <Alam> tagoh_: gtk2?
08:00:47 <tagoh_> Alam: there should be in even 3
08:02:02 <tagoh_> well, running over the time. maybe good to have a ticket to have a look at bugs being reported in test day?
08:02:24 <tagoh_> and talk about it in next meeting
08:02:46 <Alam> yes
08:02:48 <juhp> at least when I disabled bold it fixed that problem
08:03:13 <tagoh_> okay
08:03:33 <tagoh_> so let's stop the meeting here then.
08:03:42 <tagoh_> juhp: maybe good to add a comment about it?
08:03:57 <juhp> well I did in the fedora bug
08:04:02 <tagoh_> ah, okay
08:04:20 <tagoh_> anyway, thanks everyone for the long meeting!
08:04:35 <tagoh_> #endmeeting