15:02:01 #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:02:01 Meeting started Mon May 27 15:02:01 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:05 #meetingname fedora-qa 15:02:05 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:02:08 #topic roll call 15:02:12 morning folks! how is everyone? 15:02:23 * j_dulaney slumps in, all tired 15:02:28 * satellit_e listening 15:02:42 * j_dulaney pulled an all night hacking run 15:03:22 * jreznik is partially here from bed - sick today :( 15:03:36 take care jreznik 15:04:12 * Cerlyn watches 15:04:28 * jskladan tips his hat 15:04:39 * j_dulaney twitches 15:04:42 * kparal joins 15:05:59 * adamw sets up a coffee iv for j_dulaney 15:06:42 * j_dulaney gets high from the caffeine 15:07:09 no tflink in the house? 15:07:17 * pschindl is here 15:07:41 Holiday in the US 15:07:52 Memorial Day 15:08:30 pfeh 15:08:35 .fire tflink 15:08:35 adamw fires tflink 15:08:51 #chair kparal 15:08:51 Current chairs: adamw kparal 15:08:57 #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:09:10 "nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic" - did you get anywhere on that, nirik? 15:09:27 nope. :) 15:09:36 will try this week. 15:10:57 alrighty. 15:11:15 #info "nirik to work on revising the 'desktop updates' test case to be more generic" - not done yet, nirik will try to work on it this week 15:11:34 #info "martix to co-ordinate with Thermostat test day runners to make sure they'll be ready or postpone the event" - martix checked in, and they were ready in time 15:11:44 "nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now" - you again, nirik 15:12:14 done. 15:12:27 nuked. wiped. 15:12:42 I moved all 10 bugs in it to rawhide. 15:13:29 thanks. 15:13:38 #info "nirik to remove F20 from bugzilla for now" - done, nuked, wiped, bugs moved to rawhide 15:13:49 #topic Fedora 19 Beta review/wrap-up 15:14:12 so, in case anyone missed it, we approved F19 Beta RC4 at go/no-go on thursday, it will be released tomorrow 15:14:19 big thanks to everyone for validation testing 15:14:23 And there was much rejoicing 15:14:24 I'll create some contributors stats, hopefully this week 15:14:31 #info 19 Beta RC4 will be released as Beta tomorrow 15:14:43 #info kparal will produce stats on contributors to testing 15:15:22 the couple of things I have noted down are that we need to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs and make sure the release notes cover the PackageKit/PolicyKit thing and maybe initial-setup 15:15:39 anyone have anything else we need to do as part of beta wrap-up? 15:17:09 this isn't so much wrap up for beta as prep for final but the iscsi test case needs some editing to work with newui 15:17:33 I couldn't test the UEFI grub fix today, our mirrors were dead 15:18:07 and there's a final prep section - should have waited 5 minutes 15:18:10 tflink: :) 15:18:28 kparal: ah, was wondering about that, i can try if i can get past the exhaustion issue somehow :/ 15:18:47 adamw: reflashing bios worked for us 15:19:07 this is my production desktop so i'm a bit reluctant to do that. anyhow 15:19:07 but the current uefi hw is really crap 15:19:39 oh, while we're on the topic - if you can still flash yours, pjones is interested in what happens if you flash your firmware and then do nothing but install fedora over and over till it breaks 15:19:49 if it really breaks after 10 tries, something's very wrong somewhere, he says 15:20:11 adamw: I guess it will be around 15-20. I can definitely try it once our mirrors are back online 15:20:15 ok 15:20:30 he says the nvram ought to have space for hundreds or thousands of install attempts 15:20:37 it should only really get filled up by stuff like coredumps 15:20:55 there's that s-word :) 15:20:59 so if it gets filled up by a few install attempts, either there's something wonky kernel-side or you have a really bad firmware 15:21:15 tflink: Quiet! 15:21:21 that depends. we did a 10 f19 installations, everything was fine. then we installed f18, upgraded, and the game was over 15:21:30 *10x f19 installations 15:21:59 damn, you get the meaning, ten installations :) 15:22:27 but I think it was because f18 by default still uses coredump-to-nvram approach 15:22:33 so it filled up 15:22:52 kparal: right, that's why he wants you to just to f19 install attempts, as coredump storing is currently disabled so it shouldn't affect things 15:23:02 but we're taking up meeting time here :) 15:23:21 #action adamw and anyone else to work on updating https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs 15:23:41 #action adamw to talk to rbergeron and make sure packagekit/policykit issue makes it into the beta release notes 15:24:52 if anyone wants to help out with commonbugs, that'd be great: see http://bit.ly/fedora-commonbugs-proposed for the list of bugs that may need to be added to the page 15:25:04 #topic Fedora 19 Final planning 15:25:57 so i had a couple of things noted down here 15:26:09 #action adamw to complete 'new model' criteria revision by converting the final criteria 15:26:42 #info Final TC1 scheduled for June 4th (2013-06-04) 15:27:09 #info final freeze scheduled for 2013-06-18 15:27:34 the iscsi installation test case needs updating for newui 15:27:42 what else do we need to get ready for final? 15:27:44 roger 15:27:58 there's probably a few others too...i meant to do a comprehensive sweep through them between 19 and 20 15:28:10 #action tflink to update the iscsi test case for newUI 15:28:13 meant or want? 15:29:20 whichever you prefer 15:29:49 anyone have anything else to suggest? 15:29:52 I assume you meant between 18 and 19, but them's details 15:31:31 no, i meant 19 and 20 15:31:36 but possibly 'mean' not 'meant; 15:34:35 nothing else for 19 final prep? 15:35:12 one note, then: we should probably cover the 'final' tests on beta and file blocker bugs for anything that fails 15:35:24 help give us early warning of any final blockers 15:36:25 * kparal and vbocek have been already working on that 15:36:33 and we might want to start blocker review meetings this week - the list was already pretty long when I last looked at it 15:37:05 adamw: I just though we should fill in the empty test cases using Beta RC4 but wait for Final TC1 15:37:10 *shouldn't 15:37:30 kparal: it's fine to add them to the matrix, in fact it helps get a quick overview of the status 15:37:34 thanks for working on it already 15:37:37 tflink: that's a point 15:37:51 at least for Desktop the packages changed a lot, since we've been unfrozen 15:38:22 #action tflink to schedule first blocker review meeting for this week 15:38:35 alright, we're running low on time so moving on 15:38:43 #topic Taskbot 15:39:03 #info http://tirfa.com/an-initial-idea-for-taskbot.html is Tim's idea for revising our approach to automated testing (and rebuilding autoqa) 15:39:15 really just wanted to point it up and maybe have a quick q&a for anyone with questions :) 15:40:25 for taskbot - it would be great to coordinate with fedora revamp initiative - seems like a good fit 15:40:42 jreznik: yeah, we've already been pinged about that 15:40:48 tflink: so, the idea is to replace autotest, keep a half of the autoqa library. what about resultsdb? 15:41:08 kparal: not 100% sure yet - need to talk to josef about it 15:41:20 ok 15:41:31 I didn't use it in the proof of concept for 2 reasons 15:41:47 I like the architecture, at least in some points it will be a definite improvement 15:41:49 1 - I would rather everything use json over restful interfaces instead of xmlrpc 15:41:50 tflink: I'm aware of that and the whole revamp concept is all about automatic qa + processes around it 15:41:53 if we can implement it 15:42:09 2 - I wanted to play with angular for the frontend instead of templating in the app 15:43:47 yeah, human resources are going to be a bit of an issue, as always 15:44:05 we can discuss the technical details in qa-devel. but what about some other details, like manpower. do you have some idea how many people we would need to work on it? 15:44:28 and will the work be set up such that it's easy for people to contribute, or will that be difficult? 15:44:38 depends on what we want done and how quickly 15:45:00 * j_dulaney is +1 public git repo 15:45:12 it is all public 15:45:29 the contribution should be easier 15:45:40 than it is? yes 15:45:45 no need to request patches approval 15:46:11 I'd like to have code reviews for all core changes 15:46:19 +1 code reviews 15:46:30 sure, I meant for third-party tests 15:46:37 the task maintainers would be responsible for their own tests, though 15:47:28 given our experience with autoqa, I assume that we're going to be hard pressed to find contributers to taskbot itself 15:47:31 for third party tests great, but I meant the work of the actual conversion to taskbot 15:47:55 do you talk about contributions to the system or test cases? we would definitely need contributions from devels, mitr would like to sell it in the way - contribute test case and there would be smaller chance someone will break your stuff without knowing it (and that's the main idea behind revamp) 15:48:31 jreznik: my initial target for taskbot is going to be no external tests 15:48:42 once the core is solid, we can start talking about external tests 15:48:54 tflink: Where can I start poking? 15:48:59 I agree we will hardly find someone willing to contribute to the system core. for third-party tests I assume there should be enough interest 15:48:59 my fear is that if we try to do everything right off the bat, this is going to implode 15:49:10 j_dulaney: http://taskbot.tirfa.net for now 15:49:46 it's like supporting arm - I'm planning on it and it's a requirement but the initial target is x86 to keep things kind of simpler 15:49:49 tflink: Aye 15:49:56 Indeed 15:50:00 tflink: for the revamp - it's #1 feature we would like to have but I can image less gigantic first step (so the initial version with at least some integration testing prepared by QA)... just keep it in mind we would need such infrastructure 15:50:03 j_dulaney: it'll move to https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ when it grows up I guess 15:50:35 adamw: no, it won't - it'll be in a separate git repo and tracker 15:50:39 ah okay 15:51:18 jreznik: yeah, I'm still trying to figure out some of this - I'm not 100% sure what we're going to need for infra, if anything 15:51:54 I was mostly interested in figuring out - a) is there interest in the idea? b) how soon do we want to go forward with this 15:52:34 I'm not dumb/naive enough to assume that I've thought of everything, so useful input would be appreciated 15:52:56 cool 15:53:14 let's move on for now so we can wrap up in time 15:53:24 one question is about the next steps - do we migrate the fedora cloud or replace autoqa-stg? 15:53:32 but that can be on qa-devel@ 15:53:59 further discussion on #fedora-qa, tirfa.com, qa-devel@ 15:54:07 tflink: I feel support especially from fesco, a lot of people stand behind it at fudcon but yeah, there's no clear direction now and it's definitely a good topic to talk abou before flock 15:54:40 jreznik: one motivation for talking about it now was so that I can do a talk/hackfest @ flock 15:54:59 right, that's an obvious thing we should do 15:55:02 since the deadline for proposals is in a couple days 15:55:02 #topic Test Days 15:55:20 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup went off fine and produced some useful tests, including things we weren't covering in validation 15:55:21 tflink: "before flock" - it should be prepared by flock to be able to move with it there 15:55:32 * jreznik will contact mitr about it 15:56:04 #action adamw to look at extracting some test cases from Test_Day:2013-05-21_AnacondaNewUI_Followup for use as optional test cases (or even enforceable partitioning test cases) for the validation matrices 15:56:28 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-23_Thermostat also went off well and looked like it was being useful for the developers 15:56:46 although attended mainly by the developers themselves :) 15:57:19 as long as they had fun :) 15:57:27 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-28_Virtualization looks to be ready 15:57:40 are you doing a live image for that one? 15:58:04 already provided 15:58:07 great 15:58:15 #info live image has been provided for virt test day 15:58:23 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-30_Spice is being worked on, but test cases not yet present 15:59:12 Martix: are you in contact with the spice folks? 16:00:19 adamw: I looked on test day page and I am going contact them 16:00:32 great 16:00:39 #action martix to ensure spice test day is ready on time 16:01:35 #topic Open floor 16:01:42 just wanted to say again great job everyone getting beta out on time 16:01:47 thanks for that 16:01:54 any other business for open floor? 16:02:21 any test cases for sugar needed? or is it too specialized 16:03:48 satellit_e: Test cases are always appreciated 16:03:52 it would be nice if it had its own, sure 16:03:59 we list the desktop cases for it but they're not entirely appropriate 16:04:10 it might be good to have test cases for the most important elements 16:04:17 let me draw up some simple tests 16:04:52 * satellit_e ideas for tests 16:05:06 great, thanks 16:05:13 #action satellit_e to work on some test cases for SoaS 16:05:19 anything else, folks? 16:05:45 +1 to getting ready for flock; proposals close in a couple of days 16:06:19 yup, good point 16:06:56 * j_dulaney has two proposed talks 16:07:02 #info Flock session submission deadline is 2013-05-31, so if you have ideas for sessions, please submit them 16:07:29 i've got one in and mean to submit another for taking another look at the release criteria 16:07:54 which will just be me, on my own, wondering why no-one else spends all their time thinking about tweaking release criteria 16:08:38 adamw: You're too good at it! You drive away the compitition 16:08:43 heh 16:08:57 alrighty, thanks for coming everyone 16:09:15 * adamw sets the Patent Fuse for three chickens and a monkey 16:10:45 #endmeeting