13:30:45 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
13:30:45 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Aug 12 13:30:45 2013 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:30:45 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:30:45 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
13:30:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
13:30:45 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
13:30:58 * Capesteve waves
13:31:22 * lnovich is here
13:31:52 * pbokoc present
13:32:18 * croberts present
13:32:23 * yruseva here
13:33:02 <jjmcd_> here but onna fone
13:33:11 * jhradilek is here.
13:33:37 * randomuser is here but not yet adequately caffeinated
13:34:29 * lnovich sends randomuser a cup of joe
13:34:36 <randomuser> thanks!
13:35:00 <randomuser> i just bought a mug of espresso, but it is too hot to drink quickly
13:35:22 <randomuser> so we move on!
13:35:36 <randomuser> #topic follow up on last week's action items
13:35:45 <randomuser> I had two, and I didn't do them...
13:36:06 <randomuser> the storage guide I still need to follow up on
13:36:20 <randomuser> #action  randomuser to close resources on tx for storage guide, for now
13:36:49 <randomuser> and pbokoc sent his mail
13:37:45 <randomuser> so, croberts is going to work up some drafts for the docs.fp.o landing page
13:38:08 <randomuser> #topic Changes / Release Notes
13:38:42 <randomuser> Does anyone have something to say on Changes process or release notes? I'm just adding it to the agenda as a reminder at this point
13:39:02 <randomuser> #info writers can start working on beats at any time
13:39:12 <croberts> randomuser: yes, I will start to work on the draft at the airport and once I get back home
13:40:19 <randomuser> great!
13:40:41 <randomuser> okay, now we can talk about pbokoc
13:40:54 <lnovich> i can help edit, but my time for writing is taxed at the moment
13:40:57 <pbokoc_> yeah, I think I had a connection problem for a bit
13:41:18 <randomuser> oh - i mean, we can talk about guides :P
13:41:28 <pbokoc_> :D
13:41:42 <pbokoc_> yeah, people make that typo all the time
13:42:00 <randomuser> the keys are so close together, it is clearly a design flaw
13:43:07 <randomuser> at this point, i would submit that working through the Change documentation and writing a beat would be the best way for an interested guide writer to spend their Fedora cycles
13:44:07 <randomuser> hm
13:44:27 <randomuser> #info we had a request for PO push for the defensive coding guide
13:44:30 <lnovich> at the risk of sounding like a Noob (ok there is no way not to w/this question) what is a beat and what do you need to do to write one?
13:44:57 <randomuser> lnovich, a 'beat' is a not-very-well-defined subset of the release notes
13:45:04 <jsmith> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_notes_beats
13:45:14 <randomuser> thanks jsmith
13:45:20 <jsmith> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats
13:45:20 <lnovich> ok and each topic is a seperate beat?
13:45:25 <jsmith> Correct
13:45:56 <randomuser> lnovich, so, if you were already tracking changes in the newest libvirt stuff, for example, you could add some notes to that wiki page
13:46:43 <lnovich> ok
13:47:11 <randomuser> if you *aren't* following the edge of development, it would take some extra cycles, but i think a lot of people are already in a position to just jot down what they know
13:47:47 <randomuser> that said - any guide questions today?
13:47:55 <lnovich> ok so i see there is a proofread section there - so i am willing to proofread
13:48:12 <randomuser> awesome
13:48:21 <lnovich> i can do that much quicker than writing
13:48:33 <lnovich> how would I see the copy?
13:49:04 <randomuser> lnovich, there is a git repo like other guides you can clone, or you can wait for someone to publish a draft on fedorapeople
13:49:09 <lnovich> ok
13:49:29 <randomuser> you could watch the wiki pages if you want, but that's probably too early to need proofreading
13:49:41 <lnovich> for the sake of semantics does proofread = copy edit or full edit
13:49:55 <randomuser> ack
13:50:27 <lnovich> as i don't have any cycles at the moment, waiting is better
13:50:55 <randomuser> well, if there's anything we (I?) can do to help, speak up
13:51:27 <lnovich> no help needed - unless you know how to add a few hrs to the day
13:51:47 <randomuser> jhradilek, Capesteve pbokoc_ - anything to share for this topic before we move on?
13:52:00 <pbokoc_> I have nothing right now
13:52:11 <Capesteve> I am busy with new content
13:52:21 <jhradilek> I am busy. :)
13:52:28 <pbokoc_> the IG is in Zanata ready for translation since last week
13:52:30 <Capesteve> but nothing I need to say or disucss abou tit
13:52:30 <pbokoc_> but that's about it
13:53:03 <randomuser> oh! lnovich, maybe jhradilek would lend you one of his office cots
13:53:35 <Capesteve> jhradilek: has a very comfy chair, but no cots
13:53:40 <lnovich> thanks - but no need
13:53:43 <randomuser> :)
13:53:55 <randomuser> okay, we can move on
13:54:00 <lnovich> yup
13:54:03 <randomuser> #topic articles
13:54:21 <randomuser> so, this is an odd topic an not a well formed idea yet, but I thought i'd share
13:55:19 <randomuser> I've been talking to people over the last few days here in Charleston, and I have the general impression that there is more interest in helping with 'fedora documentation' than we are seeing, but the barrier to entry is high
13:55:58 <randomuser> not just in the effort of learning docbook and going through the process, but simply finding a place to put a given piece of content in a guide
13:56:10 <randomuser> so, I'm working on something for that
13:56:42 <lnovich> sounds like a good idea
13:57:51 <randomuser> there are some promising pieces of software to help that require minimal effort on the infra side, so i'm testing that stuff
13:58:13 <lnovich> docbook is not the hardest thing to learn if you have a template set up
13:58:27 <randomuser> lnovich, it isn't really the language, it's the process
13:58:30 <Southern_Gentlem> !
13:58:45 <randomuser> Southern_Gentlem, feel free to speak up at any time
13:58:57 <lnovich> the confusing part is there are instructions on how to do things in many places and not all of them are correct
13:59:22 <lnovich> so when you look for information it isn't clear what you should do, and where to find it
13:59:35 <Southern_Gentlem> randomuser,  i have said this before but there needs to be a docs mentor program so when someone joins they work with someone to do some documentation
14:00:28 <lnovich> do we have people who want to be mentored?
14:00:45 <randomuser> Southern_Gentlem, that sounds like a good idea; there's a 'casual' sort of help for the motivated mentee at this point, but nothing formalized
14:00:46 <Southern_Gentlem> the mentor helps them with the tools, they learn they have someone they know they can work with, in the end docs gets the person trained and gets some documentation at the same time
14:01:08 <lnovich> it is a great idea
14:01:28 <randomuser> do we have enough people to serve as mentors, and do we have enough people who want mentors to ask for it?
14:01:52 <randomuser> well, nvm, it would be better to have the system in place for when they come
14:01:55 <lnovich> ideally the mentor should be in a similar timezone
14:02:04 <randomuser> Southern_Gentlem, would you be able to get involved?
14:02:30 <Southern_Gentlem> randomuser,  that is why i dropped out of the docs group
14:02:47 <lnovich> so how can we help you stay?
14:03:16 <Southern_Gentlem> i was a member was lost and really didnt see my time being used wisely
14:03:18 <randomuser> wait - you dropped out because you could not mentor, or because you could not be mentored
14:03:28 <randomuser> ah, i see
14:03:38 <Southern_Gentlem> because i join and was totally lost
14:04:25 <randomuser> let's put a proposal together, then
14:04:38 <Penguiniator> That sounds familiar to me as well
14:05:00 <randomuser> Southern_Gentlem, what I'm working on would be a way for people to get involved without requiring the full investiment into a guide
14:05:28 <randomuser> Someone can submit a patch to a guide, but they could very well have to wait until the next release to see the community benefit from their work
14:05:28 <lnovich> maybe we can add a "gamification" twist to it?
14:05:37 <randomuser> lnovich, badges.fedoraproject.org !
14:05:58 <lnovich> spoke too late
14:06:22 <randomuser> there aren't any docs badges, really, we should look into that
14:06:45 <lnovich> yup
14:06:52 <lnovich> and we should announce when members get them
14:07:16 <randomuser> Southern_Gentlem, fwiw, I'd be happy to aid your participation however I can
14:09:24 <randomuser> lnovich, the badges work via fedmsg, so we would have them for things like commits to docs repos, or publishings, etc
14:09:42 <lnovich> ok how are they rewarded/
14:09:49 <randomuser> oh, there's one for chairing a meeting too :)
14:10:06 <lnovich> there you go - 20 points!
14:10:07 <randomuser> lnovich, it's integrated into the infrastructure
14:10:42 <lnovich> ok so because we don't commit to the same place we haven't been getting them?
14:11:06 <randomuser> lnovich, because I don't *think* that any have been designed specifically for us
14:11:17 <lnovich> so lets get us on board
14:11:29 <lnovich> who do we need to talk to?
14:11:30 <randomuser> someone will have to do the work of if (docs person does X) then (badge)
14:11:44 <randomuser> threebean, probably
14:11:54 <lnovich> ok anyone else?
14:12:05 <randomuser> #fedora-apps ?
14:12:28 <lnovich> I can take this as an action item
14:12:34 <lnovich> and see where it goes
14:12:37 <randomuser> i believe the logic is on github somewhere
14:12:43 <randomuser> awesome, thanks lnovich
14:12:56 <randomuser> I'll see if I can find someone involved before I leave today, too
14:13:03 <lnovich> although I am beginning to feel like Alice
14:13:27 <randomuser> oh?
14:13:41 <lnovich> but if everyone else gets badges for commits, we should too
14:14:02 <randomuser> yeah, a lot of them are packager-oriented
14:14:18 <randomuser> i'll ping you out of band if I learn something, lnovich
14:14:27 <lnovich> ok email is best
14:14:42 <nb> Hi
14:14:46 <nb> I am at flock
14:14:50 <nb> randomuser, were you coming here?
14:15:05 <randomuser> #action lnovich (and randomuser) to look into badges for docs
14:15:07 <nb> i thought so but don/t think i saw you
14:15:17 <randomuser> nb, i'm on the couch in the education building common area
14:15:44 <nb> #info lnovich and randomuser can file requests at http://fedorahosted.org/fedora-badges
14:15:56 <randomuser> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:16:02 <randomuser> nice, i thought there was something
14:16:10 <randomuser> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:17:40 <randomuser> wow
14:17:51 <randomuser> I haven't looked at this list in a while, we're getting a lot of feedback on guides
14:18:43 <randomuser> any worthy of discussion?
14:18:58 <randomuser> any bugs that you'd maybe like to punt off to someone else?
14:19:41 <nb> randomuser, which couch
14:19:49 <nb> i am here in the room
14:20:00 <nb> over by the drinks
14:20:04 <pbokoc_> randomuser, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=836383
14:20:13 <pbokoc_> is this still even relevant? I'm not sure what to do with it
14:20:15 <randomuser> nb, red couch. bearded guy.
14:21:57 <randomuser> pbokoc_, ehh.. it seems like we could close it
14:22:04 <pbokoc_> yeah, it seems like a good candidate for closed-notabug
14:22:52 <pbokoc_> I just noticed it shining at me in red letters and it almost gave me a heart attack
14:23:09 <randomuser> heh
14:23:13 <pbokoc_> oh wait, it's not even mine
14:23:44 <pbokoc_> eh, nevermind, I'll ping Rudi to close it when he gets around to it
14:23:56 <randomuser> pbokoc_, it is your guide; i think you're ok closing it
14:24:25 <pbokoc_> ok then
14:26:14 <randomuser> #topic Free Play
14:27:45 <randomuser> nothing?
14:27:50 <randomuser> okay
14:27:58 <randomuser> here, have some badges jhradilek
14:28:01 <randomuser> #chair jhradilek
14:28:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: jhradilek randomuser
14:28:07 <jjmcd_> Sounds like all burned out after flock
14:28:11 <randomuser> #chair Capesteve
14:28:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: Capesteve jhradilek randomuser
14:28:36 <jhradilek> :)
14:28:43 <randomuser> #chair lnovich
14:28:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: Capesteve jhradilek lnovich randomuser
14:29:02 <jhradilek> By the way, speaking of badges...
14:29:07 <jhradilek> What is wrong with Ohloh?
14:29:12 <jhradilek> https://www.ohloh.net/p/8544/contributors/summary
14:29:13 <adamw> just so you guys know, we're doing a QA meeting in our usual timeslot
14:29:16 <adamw> in 20 seconds
14:29:18 <adamw> TICK TOCK
14:29:23 <kparal> :)
14:29:29 <Capesteve> bye?
14:29:35 <jhradilek> *puff*
14:29:42 <handsome_pirate> tick tock make it stop
14:29:52 <randomuser> i'll show you time slot, adamw !
14:29:58 <randomuser> #endmeeting