01:00:01 #startmeeting FAmNA 01:00:01 Meeting started Wed Aug 28 01:00:01 2013 UTC. The chair is masta. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 01:00:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 01:00:01 #meetingname FAmNA 01:00:01 #topic === FAmNA Roll Call === 01:00:01 The meeting name has been set to 'famna' 01:00:09 oh what a douche 01:00:16 Greetings 01:00:27 you already know I am here 01:00:36 Welcome to another weekly FAMNA meeting 01:00:38 * inode0 waves 01:00:38 thats my roll call 01:01:00 i guess we are OFFICIALLY alternating then 01:01:11 ?? 01:01:14 sry... I did not know you wanted to chair dan408 01:01:25 no i just showed up here 30 minutes ago 01:01:49 its cool 01:01:53 #chair award3535 dan408 inode0 01:01:53 Current chairs: award3535 dan408 inode0 masta 01:02:16 Anybody else lurking? 01:02:21 ur mom 01:02:24 #chair rbergeron 01:02:24 Current chairs: award3535 dan408 inode0 masta rbergeron 01:02:31 #chair Southern_Gentlem 01:02:31 Current chairs: Southern_Gentlem award3535 dan408 inode0 masta rbergeron 01:02:41 #chair FranciscoD 01:02:41 Current chairs: FranciscoD Southern_Gentlem award3535 dan408 inode0 masta rbergeron 01:03:18 #topic === Announcements === 01:03:36 Announcement: I got Fedora 19 media 01:03:48 #chair nb 01:03:48 Current chairs: FranciscoD Southern_Gentlem award3535 dan408 inode0 masta nb rbergeron 01:03:59 I believe the big f20 Freeze is upon us 01:04:00 I did also ty nb 01:04:23 f20 is frozen yes 01:04:30 it's like half rawhide 01:04:36 dan408: branched, not yet frozen 01:04:43 award3535, do you think that will be enough media? 01:04:47 I still need to send you shirts 01:04:58 masta it's a little past "branched" 01:05:04 SHIRTS 01:05:07 I WANT SHIRTS 01:05:13 HOW MUCH FOR A SHIRT 01:05:15 nb: i hope so, but I can produce some if needed 01:05:30 award3535, if you think you will need more, i can send you more 01:05:35 nb i NEED a shirt 01:05:46 i've been living in a shirt for the last 2 months 01:05:51 dan408, then file a ticket 01:05:59 sir yes sir 01:06:03 #topic === Tickets === 01:06:03 #link https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report/9 01:06:41 .famnaticket 59 01:06:42 masta: #59 (Puppetconf 2013 08/22/2013-08/23/2013) – FAmNA general trac - https://fedorahosted.org/famna/ticket/59 01:06:51 got report from rbergeron 01:06:55 everything went well 01:07:06 she was happy that more people are running Fedora 01:07:19 instead of coming to the table "Oh fedora.. I run ubuntu" 01:07:29 so puppetconf was good 01:07:36 great, so this ticket is pending closure on the report 01:07:48 also I think she is getting Ruth to order another table cloth and banners 01:07:53 just close it 01:07:54 * inode0 doesn't think a report is needed to close it 01:07:59 #info Awaiting event report 01:08:04 ill close it 01:08:21 * inode0 is about to revolt about reports anyway 01:08:29 inode0: +1 01:08:30 .famnaticket 63 01:08:31 masta: #63 (LINUXCON Budget Request) – FAmNA general trac - https://fedorahosted.org/famna/ticket/63 01:09:04 I think we are about set on linuxcon, still waiting on swag 01:09:11 #topic #63 - LINUXCON Budget Request 01:09:21 I think the budget request can have the meeting tag removed 01:09:27 it was all approved wasn't it? 01:09:36 +1 and yes it was 01:09:56 award3535: this one is soon to be upon us in 3 weeks, right? 01:10:02 yes 01:10:07 what's with the weird space invader icons on trac? 01:10:19 we have hotel resv and travel is set up 01:10:45 #action remove meeting tag on #63 - all approved in prev meetings 01:11:02 i can do that now 01:11:04 im here 01:11:05 award3535: so you just need the last bits of swag, right? 01:11:20 oh award3535 did that 01:11:21 coo 01:11:21 masta: that is correct 01:11:52 it's still showing up in the report 01:11:53 odd 01:12:10 award3535: ok great, give us an update when you are 100% ready - maybe next meeting 01:12:26 rgr 01:12:33 .famnaticket 64 01:12:34 masta: #64 (OLF Budget Request) – FAmNA general trac - https://fedorahosted.org/famna/ticket/64 01:12:54 #topic #64 - OLF Budget Request 01:12:59 ok gone now 01:13:02 must be firefox 01:13:15 what are you talking about? 01:13:16 Southern_Gentlem: anything to chat about regarding OLF? 01:13:24 inode0: firefox sucking. 01:13:38 masta: wasnt someone supposed to contact jdulaney? 01:13:54 dan408: somebody should talk to him 01:14:03 he was on today 01:14:13 ugh 01:14:18 how do i get ops in here 01:14:36 come back in another life :) 01:14:40 hes not on any channels 01:14:43 i sent him a pm 01:14:47 * masta pinged jdulaney 01:14:53 inode0: you and your wit 01:15:06 dan408: just answering your question 01:15:14 inode0: i am in another life 01:15:22 * inode0 can't even get ops in #fedora-ambassadors 01:15:35 inode0: we should talk to nirik about that 01:15:47 ok so Southern_Gentlem and Mr. Dulaney are absent, we will move on... if they come alive we may opt to return to this ticket later. 01:15:48 inode0: is the a spotpolicy? 01:15:54 that* 01:16:16 dan408, spot is the freenode group contact 01:16:20 so he'd be the one to talk to about getting ops 01:16:24 wrong 01:16:36 can somebody remind me, did we approve Jdulaney's travel request? 01:16:38 zodbot can handout ops 01:16:43 masta: we did 01:16:47 I believe we did, though not sure he is aware 01:16:49 or fedbot 01:16:50 or whoever 01:16:55 dan408, if zodbot is an op, but zodbot is not an op in here or in #fedora-ambassadors 01:16:58 nor is fedbot 01:17:14 #info Jdulaney was approved for travel at last meeting 01:17:18 ok moving on 01:17:21 nb: well we should go through proper "channels" 01:17:25 ty 01:17:26 ;) 01:17:30 good luck 01:17:36 .famnaticket 65 01:17:37 masta: #65 (Software Freedom Day (Dallas)) – FAmNA general trac - https://fedorahosted.org/famna/ticket/65 01:17:41 all it takes to get ops in here is getting spot, gregdek or nirik to add people 01:17:45 but we can talk about this later 01:17:45 ok folks this one is mine 01:17:46 I'm happy to help folks get things done, see me in #fedora-admin. 01:18:00 #topic #65 SFD 01:18:04 nb: right i said nirik 01:18:19 nirik: thanks after the meeting 01:18:21 * nirik hasn't seen any need for ops in here in years. 01:18:22 #info nb sent swag for SFD 01:18:31 nirik: wanted to invite 01:18:53 mostly just keeping the ticket on the meeting agenda so next month we can sort out the logistics of the event box goign from event to event 01:19:12 thanks nirik 01:19:20 moving right along 01:19:34 #topic == Who will be the next FAmNA meeting chair? == 01:19:37 dan408: you can send a handy message to whoever... "hey, can you join #fedora-meeting"... should work just dandy. ;) 01:19:45 * masta nominates dan408 01:19:54 nirik: i did 01:20:03 masta: you ruined my cycle 01:20:10 but ok 01:20:12 ill chair 01:20:49 #topic == OPEN FLOOR == 01:21:08 so last week i suggested shaking things up in FAmNA 01:21:24 ......go on 01:21:38 and i was going to write something up but i realized it's not inline with the fedora vision 01:21:59 okay 01:22:02 2 things for sure 01:22:15 1) secession from FAMSCo 01:22:34 2) Better reimbursement/budget handling 01:22:48 discuss 01:22:49 dan408: you mean I cannot become the dictator anymore, even if you folks vote me to be dictator? 01:22:58 well 01:23:04 i had this written up 01:23:11 secession is such a powerful word, separation move away 01:23:12 (which is INCOMPLETE) 01:23:27 award3535: they do nothing for us and we manage ourselves 01:23:55 Oh I agree, but is there a problem with reimbursments? 01:24:11 http://fpaste.org/35327/65304213/ 01:24:19 award3535: yes and purchasing 01:24:35 I have had no problems with getting reimburse 01:24:37 i wrote that up last week and thought about how wrong it is 01:24:41 I talked with EMEA LATAM at Flock and liked those folks alot... too bad we are not represented in the umbrella org 01:24:45 award3535: others have 01:25:01 masta: its better that way 01:25:18 we have no FAmNA ambassadors in FAMSCo they are irrelevant to us 01:25:36 hmmm I have had good luck and no issues, but okay, I have always completed what is required of me 01:25:55 award3535 01:25:58 We sat down and decided our budget without them, so I'm wondering how they are in regards to reimburstments 01:26:00 well, just because we don't have any members doesn't mean anything to me 01:26:16 okay please speak inode0 01:26:38 * nb heard inode0 was having a problem? 01:26:40 inode0, +1....... actually christoph said that they wish there was someone from NA on famsco 01:26:43 I mean for years APAC did not have members but FAmSCo did work to help APAC get going 01:27:09 The original idea was all FAmSCo members represented all ambassadors 01:27:20 That should still be the way it works 01:27:29 i thought lines 7-12 were out of line 01:27:41 because we should be autonomous 01:27:55 forget titles - and hierarchy 01:28:00 stick with mayhem 01:28:00 exactly 01:28:15 that's exactly what i realized inode0 01:28:15 but does the FAmSCo truly represent all of us? 01:28:21 award3535: no. 01:28:33 they dont steer us 01:28:38 we know what we need to do 01:29:13 i think there's more of a problem of procurement, shippin the boxes from here to there all the time 01:29:21 bear with me I am still learning the inner workings of what we do, stepping on toes is not what I do 01:29:27 people doing events often should just have their own boxes 01:29:40 award3535 you have been great 01:29:57 i think we need to make it more attractive to BE an ambassador 01:29:58 I do atleast 3 events every year TLF, SELF and ILF 01:30:03 so lately what has been done that has helped FAmNA is budget shifting - especially unspent budget but that was probably mostly done behind FAmSCos back a bit 01:30:03 I am not sure I know what we need to do, I sense us floundering now but I don't get much bearing from FAmSCo either. 01:30:07 why would anyone want to BE an ambassador? 01:30:27 they get to hang around with Southern_Gentlem? 01:30:30 dan408, i think they should be an ambassador becaue they want to promote fedora, not because of what they get 01:30:34 Well, lets see how I got started 01:30:47 I am a user and enjoy the product 01:31:04 I loved the product and started distribution of same 01:31:10 nb: i want to promote fedora, but i like to be able to go to events that are relevant to my career and meet people 01:31:21 true 01:31:36 nb: according to Robyn im doing my job since a lot less ubuntu people than last year at puppetconf 01:31:39 I thought I would try the ambassador program and I absolutely love what I do, I have met and worked with 01:31:56 wonderful people involved in the project 01:32:00 i think the answer is more swag more freedom to do things the way we want to 01:32:14 i think one of the problems is budgeting 01:32:23 we are way too tight with it 01:32:39 shipping has been a problem but it's been getting done 01:33:00 nb what would we do without you or Southern_Gentlem ? 01:33:04 I'm here for selfish reasons... to use the ambassador program as a way to show off ARM boards running fedora 01:33:07 god forbid you got hurt like me? 01:33:20 I even give media away to my coworkers who abosultely enjoy the product. that is why I continue to be an ambassador\ 01:33:32 dan408, then vwbusguy or Southern_Gentlem would cover my area....... 01:33:48 award3535: me too i wanted f19 media just to give to people at work 01:33:50 like what we did when vwbusguy was not available much 01:34:03 nb 01:34:15 when im able to move around again i want to help with shippin 01:34:31 i also want to figure out a way to recruit people. technical people. 01:34:39 if I am not mistaken I am the only on down here in the deep south (ambassador that is) that is involved and promoting the product 01:34:40 nb how can you promote something you know nothing about 01:35:02 it's like trying to buy a ferrari from a ford focus car salesman 01:35:31 award3535: StabbyMc is there too but mostly promotes it in non-event ways of late 01:35:55 nb you are a skilled sysadmin highly involved in many parts of fedora. you make a perfect ambassador 01:36:13 same goes for me and others 01:36:24 I agree dan408, he is a valuable individual 01:36:49 this is the problem with mark. he knows nothing technical 01:37:10 are we going back to why we are seceding from FAmSCo? 01:37:20 would you like to? 01:37:24 please 01:37:29 okay 01:37:30 I am all ears 01:37:34 so should we vote? 01:37:36 yes, I'd like a case made that doesn't have anything to do with Mark 01:37:38 and get it over with? 01:37:45 no vote tonight 01:37:49 okay 01:38:00 I haven't heard a reason to bother at this point 01:38:10 #action everyone read up on FAMSCo and think about if we really need them 01:38:14 How does FAmSCo hinder FAmNA? 01:38:28 inode0: they dont help. 01:38:30 How would FAmNA benefit by seceding from FAmSCo? 01:38:41 So ignore them and what does it matter? 01:38:53 isnt that what we do alread? 01:38:57 Like you do with the Fedora Board :) 01:39:05 I'll probably go for FAMSCO next cycle now that I've met some of the people in there at this past Flock... but yeah I'munsure the purpose of FAMSCO except to have meetings on irc 01:39:21 Mission 01:39:21 To provide the governance and support structure necessary to assist and enable Fedora Ambassadors worldwide. 01:39:21 Goals 01:39:22 Manage the grow the Fedora Ambassadors project through mentoring. 01:39:22 Enable local regional leaders as much as possible. Push resources and accountability to the edges of the project. 01:39:22 In accordance with the process for sponsoring event attendees, ensure that event reports are written, and that people who receive funding are held accountable. 01:39:22 Establish metrics for determining the value of different events and initiatives, and allocate resources accordingly. 01:39:23 Manage a global events & swag budget. 01:39:23 Resolve any disputes that arise within Fedora Ambassadors. 01:39:24 Acknowledge that the Ambassadors mailing list is one of the largest concentrations of non-native English speakers within Fedora, and make policy as clear and simple as possible. 01:39:37 do we need extra governance? 01:39:43 besides from the board? 01:39:55 are they growing FAmNA? No. 01:40:17 dan408: if we are not working with FAMSCO now... what is the point of breaking away... when in effect we have already? 01:40:26 so if inode0 is the local reional leader, are they enabling you as much as possible? 01:40:34 well, FAmNA isn't currently the place that most needs attention either 01:41:17 where are the metrics from famsco piublished? 01:41:23 looks like they stopped https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:FAmSCo 01:41:24 no, they annoy me almost every time I deal with them because they ask me to do things I don't want to do - but that might still be good for the entire organization 01:41:39 Manage a global events & swag budget., where is that? 01:41:52 Resolve any disputes that arise within Fedora Ambassadors <- hah 01:42:08 Acknowledge that the Ambassadors mailing list is one of the largest concentrations of non-native English speakers within Fedora, and make policy as clear and simple as possible. <- list is dead 01:42:20 Ok, please 01:42:33 inode0, so you are saying they are not enabling you the local regional leader? 01:42:36 They have dealt with disputes that were quite unpleasant 01:42:59 They have dealt with the swag budget although in the new model they are mostly bypassed now 01:43:14 okay 01:43:19 they used to micromanage everything for regions other than NA, but they recently stopped micromanaging it 01:43:30 The ambassador list and irc channel are both underused I think 01:43:37 then i dont know what the hell they are doing 01:43:53 they have mostly left us alone to do our thing 01:44:09 well lets discuss the other end of the argument 01:44:13 recently they have been bitching about NA not reporting what we are spending to them 01:44:16 maybe we do need a little more of a push? 01:44:38 * handsome_pirate shows up late 01:44:41 Apologies 01:44:50 handsome_pirate 2 mins 01:44:54 handsome_pirate: hiya 01:45:11 I was out of the house 01:45:15 nb: so is that bitching warranted? 01:45:27 nb: granted that is part of their "job" 01:45:31 yeah 01:45:51 So, I tried to put as much into the ticket as I could 01:45:53 handsome_pirate wait a few minutes so we can loop back around to OLF 01:45:54 * nb guesses it kind of is? but no one has really said how it is suposed to be reported 01:46:08 * handsome_pirate wonders what the current topic is 01:46:08 and we don't really have a list of every little thing we have spent that i know of 01:46:17 handsome_pirate, FAmSCo 01:46:35 and the proposal for FAmNA to secede 01:46:40 nb: i see a lot of I don't know and a lot of undefined beaurcratic bullshit 01:46:48 dan408, yeah 01:46:55 complaining about us not reporting is a crock if you ask me - I've explained over and over why we can't do what they want 01:47:09 inode0, yeah 01:47:23 nb: Wait, secede? As in become our own thing? 01:47:23 so #1 they dont do everything they're supposed to 01:47:38 #2 they dont help where they are needed 01:47:38 handsome_pirate, yes, as in us not being accountable to FAmSCo 01:47:38 handsome_pirate: when haven't we been our own thing? 01:47:51 inode0: True 01:47:54 have you ever asked FAmSCo for anything? 01:47:57 so lets make it official 01:48:00 inode0: Nope 01:48:14 * nb wonders what rbergeron and suehle think about this 01:48:30 since rbergeron could just say "no" and stop it should she choose to, since FPL has the ultimate veto 01:48:30 i think robyn wouldnt care 01:48:39 But I'm still not clear on there being much benefit to this to us and it could harm others indirectly I fear 01:48:58 lets not bite the hand the feeds us, I think we should ask around a bit more 01:49:07 * nb wonders if it might be best to continue in our current course of just ignoring FAmSCo 01:49:07 they dont feed us 01:49:07 I tend to agree with inode0 on this 01:49:11 that's the point award3535 01:49:26 nb: inode0 has pondered the same 01:49:27 When latam and apac needed help from outside those regions it was nice that people on FAmSCo from NA and EMEA could help 01:49:46 * handsome_pirate is in support of ignoring FAmSCo 01:49:59 inode0: well if FAmNA was better structured we wouldnt need help 01:50:22 it is about us providing help, not needing help 01:50:34 but they dont provide any right now 01:50:48 not to us but we don't need help 01:50:54 they are providing help to others 01:51:10 * masta is all for helping folks in other regions, if FAMSCO is the vehicle of doing such help... then..... 01:51:12 i think there is roo for improvement but im a perfectionist so just ignore me 01:51:15 APAC and LATAM are in far better position than they were a few years ago 01:51:18 * masta si run for FAMSCO next cycle 01:51:45 ok folks... enough of this FAMSCO rant 01:51:48 okay so maybe 01:52:04 everyone think about it, vote next week, or continue current course of ignoring them 01:52:09 * inode0 thinks it is good to air this unhappiness - get it out in the open 01:52:10 nothing useful is being done here now, so I want to circle back around to the ticket #64 01:52:29 handsome_pirate: thanks for joining 01:52:31 hold on im finishing up masta 01:52:45 dan408: this matter is done 01:52:52 dan408: bring it up next meeting 01:52:54 punt to next week +1 or continue current course -1 01:53:04 +1 01:53:13 +1 01:53:22 +1 punt 01:53:38 handsome_pirate: (aka jdulaney) you were approved for travel to OLF in the last meeting 01:53:41 inode0 nb ? 01:54:00 sorry, just a sec 01:54:05 k 01:54:12 masta: Aye, so Ben said 01:54:17 handsome_pirate: please make whatever travel arrangements you need 01:54:24 +1 01:54:35 +1 to continue the current course for one more week :) 01:54:42 masta: A reply on the ticket to that would be helpful 01:54:47 #agreed punt FAMSCo discussion to next week 01:55:07 handsome_pirate: it was recorded in the irc log last week, but yea.. somebody can update the ticket 01:55:20 masta: Also, note I shortened the time, only need hotel for two nights, $212 pluss tax and whatnot 01:55:40 Unless I can room with someone 01:55:42 thanks everyone for listening to my proposal 01:55:45 handsome_pirate: thanks 01:56:29 ok folks - let us bring this meeting to close 01:56:40 No 01:56:40 masta: What about hotel? 01:56:56 masta we have 4 more minutes to argue 01:57:00 * handsome_pirate notes you stated I was approved for travel 01:57:27 yeh masta you must get the handsome_pirate the finest boat of the sea 01:57:49 handsome_pirate: you should be able to attend the whole event - just minimize costs for us 01:57:54 handsome_pirate: my feeling is that the hotel was approved, talk to Ben for details 01:58:16 inode0: I'm not going to because of new job 01:58:27 That I start that week 01:58:43 well, ok if that is your choice - we are willing to cover the whole event 01:59:12 I am not sure how much choice I have. 01:59:14 if you can only attend part that is fine too - we'll still cover you 01:59:20 Thanks 01:59:20 handsome_pirate: I'm glad we were able to send you to talk about Fedora =) 01:59:40 one minute warning 02:00:18 good night all 02:00:30 #endmeeting