15:07:26 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig
15:07:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov 19 15:07:26 2013 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:07:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:07:32 <rdieter> #meetingname kde-sig
15:07:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:07:35 <rdieter> #topic roll call
15:07:40 <rdieter> hi all, who's present today?
15:07:46 <dvratil> hi!
15:08:12 <Kevin_Kofler> Present.
15:08:25 * ltinkl is here
15:09:05 <rdieter> than sends regards
15:09:23 <rdieter> #info rdieter dvratil Kevin_Kofler ltinkl present
15:09:28 <rdieter> #info than sends regards
15:09:33 <rdieter> #chair dvratil Kevin_Kofler ltinkl
15:09:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler dvratil ltinkl rdieter
15:10:03 <rdieter> #topic agenda
15:10:22 <rdieter> topics for today's meeting?
15:10:25 <mbriza> present
15:10:32 <rdieter> #info mbriza present
15:10:36 <rdieter> #chair mbriza
15:10:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler dvratil ltinkl mbriza rdieter
15:10:44 <Kevin_Kofler> So I have 2 things: the symbol versioning proposal to be sent to upstream (which rdieter and I discussed last week) and an update on krazy2 packaging.
15:11:39 <dvratil> I can give a quick summary of the PIM Sprint we had this weekend
15:12:13 <rdieter> k, lets' start with fun stuff
15:12:30 <rdieter> #topic PIM sprint summary
15:12:38 <rdieter> dvratil: go
15:12:55 <dvratil> Kevin_Kofler will be happy to know that we improved performance and memory consumption of mixedmaildir and maildir resources :)
15:13:04 <dvratil> Akregator2 (Akonadi port of Akregator) is alive again
15:14:01 <Kevin_Kofler> So that's one good and one bad news. ;-)
15:14:02 * rdieter enjoyed the blog/g+ updates
15:14:02 <dvratil> once KF5 is split out to individual git repositories we start working working on KF5 for kdepimlibs (tentative framework is to have something done one year from now)
15:14:39 <dvratil> we have new maintainer for IMAP resource, so IMAP in KDE will be even more awesome than before
15:15:10 <dvratil> there will be some improvements on Akonadi side regarding threading and search + some general optimizations
15:16:03 <dvratil> that's probably all, I'll write a more detailed blog post later
15:16:25 <Kevin_Kofler> OK, thanks for the report!
15:17:46 <rdieter> #topic krazy2 packaging
15:17:49 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: your turn
15:18:11 <Kevin_Kofler> FYI, I finally pushed a long overdue update of krazy2 to testing.
15:18:25 <Kevin_Kofler> We previously had a snapshot that was now over 3 years old.
15:18:45 <Kevin_Kofler> Still from the old svn.kde.org repo, it has been on Gitorious for 3 years now.
15:19:15 <Kevin_Kofler> So I updated it to the latest master from the Gitorious repo, latest commit in August 2013.
15:19:29 <Kevin_Kofler> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/krazy2
15:19:44 <Kevin_Kofler> There have been a lot of improvements in the last 3 years.
15:20:34 <Kevin_Kofler> Support for CMake, Python and qdoc files, a checker for trivial memory leaks (of course, not a Valgrind replacement, but it can catch the obvious ones) etc.
15:20:53 <Kevin_Kofler> And krazy2xml now can actually be used without editing the script, by setting up a ~/.krazyxml config file.
15:21:04 <dvratil> \o/ thanks for updating it!
15:21:33 <Kevin_Kofler> Though that one is still not that great for packaging, the defaults are hardcoded, and setting different defaults is not easy, because of some issues such as:
15:22:10 <Kevin_Kofler> The default temporary directory is below /home/winterz/. ;-) But if I fixed it to be /tmp, then I would be responsible for its insecure temporary file creation. :-(
15:22:34 <Kevin_Kofler> The directory should really be one created with mkdtemp below /tmp, but that would require code changes which I really don't want to test.
15:22:55 <Kevin_Kofler> Also, krazy2xml basically assumes you have a checkout of the whole KDE repo which is maintained separately from the script.
15:23:14 <Kevin_Kofler> So it's still manual work to set it up. The krazy2 and krazy2all scripts are what's more likely to be useful.
15:23:28 <dvratil> Kevin_Kofler, where is the tempdir configured?
15:24:04 <dvratil> nvm, found it :)
15:24:43 <Kevin_Kofler> So what I would appreciate is Bodhi karma or any other indication that people are actually using that package. :-)
15:25:00 <Kevin_Kofler> Because the lack of complaints about how ancient it was doesn't make it look like people were actually trying to use it.
15:25:56 <jgrulich> Kevin_Kofler: I just installed it today (and I didn't know you have updated it) and it works perfectly :)
15:26:00 <Kevin_Kofler> One problem is that they don't do releases, which also means I cannot set up Upstream Release Monitoring in a meaningful way.
15:26:31 <Kevin_Kofler> jgrulich: Are you using the old 2010 one or the current one?
15:26:39 <Kevin_Kofler> (It's still in testing.)
15:26:41 <jgrulich> Kevin_Kofler: krazy2-2.94-0.2.20130817git8a0c3deb81ce2.fc20.x86_64
15:26:47 <Kevin_Kofler> That's the current one, yes.
15:26:48 <jgrulich> Kevin_Kofler: it should be the new one
15:27:01 <Kevin_Kofler> So you can karma it up. :-)
15:28:38 <Kevin_Kofler> Even worse than the lack of releases is the lack of one single version. Almost every file has its own version number, then Makefile.PL declares the version of the krazy2 script to be the package version (which is also where my 2.94 comes from), but that doesn't make all that much sense because the version of the checkers matters probably more.
15:29:37 <Kevin_Kofler> I could probably make Upstream Release Monitoring look for the version of krazy2 and get a notification when that gets bumped, but that's not necessarily the optimal time to update the package.
15:29:46 <Kevin_Kofler> Still, it'd be an improvement over forgetting entirely. ;-)
15:30:01 * rdieter suggests chatting with mr winterz
15:30:30 <rdieter> I'm surprised that didn't land in kde infra honestly
15:30:48 <rdieter> (instead of gitorious)
15:31:10 <Kevin_Kofler> The thing is that most KDE developers probably use krazy2 directly from master and so don't notice if the distro package is out of date.
15:31:39 <rdieter> anything else, or can we move on?
15:31:41 <Kevin_Kofler> About the infra, probably 2 reasons:
15:31:49 <Kevin_Kofler> 1. They wanted to move to git before KDE did and
15:32:21 <Kevin_Kofler> 2. They wanted to be useful beyond KDE.
15:32:40 <dvratil> hmm, I think most devs just look into EBN from time to time
15:33:01 <Kevin_Kofler> They depend only on Perl and Qt, not kdelibs. They used to use kdevplatform to parse C++, that was replaced by a fork of the Qt Creator parser ages ago (even the old 2010 snapshot already had that).
15:33:22 <rdieter> shrug, I don't necessarily buy into either of those, but it's not my decision either
15:33:50 <Kevin_Kofler> They could probably move to git.kde.org now.
15:34:20 <rdieter> maybe the svn->git move.  I end up cursing whenever I have to touch svn these days. :-/
15:34:20 <Kevin_Kofler> But it's not my decision either. :-)
15:34:26 <rdieter> ok, let's move on...
15:34:36 <rdieter> #topic symbol versioning proposal
15:34:36 <Kevin_Kofler> move on +1
15:34:48 <Kevin_Kofler> So how does this look:
15:34:52 <Kevin_Kofler> #link http://repo.calcforge.org/temp/symbol-versioning.txt
15:35:41 <Kevin_Kofler> That's my attempt at writing up what rdieter and I discussed last week.
15:36:46 <rdieter> I like, though it mentions "RPM" a *lot*... if we could spin this so that it benefits more than just rpm users (which it does), I bet it may be an easier sell
15:37:38 <Kevin_Kofler> I think this may also help other packaging systems, but we need to check which ones.
15:37:57 <Kevin_Kofler> E.g., does dpkg benefit from it? (If yes, that'd make it even more useful.)
15:38:15 <Kevin_Kofler> I THINK I remember Debian people once said that dpkg could do something with those symbol versions too, but I'm not sure.
15:38:29 <Kevin_Kofler> Debian's way to handle library versioning is VERY different from ours/RPM's.
15:38:32 <rdieter> it either does or *can*, either way, it would help. :)
15:39:09 <rdieter> regardless, I support the proposal
15:39:28 <Kevin_Kofler> So what's the plan to move on? I propose the following:
15:40:01 <Kevin_Kofler> 1. I look into what other package managers can benefit from this, and replace "RPM" by "package managers", giving a list where appropriate.
15:40:29 <Kevin_Kofler> 2. I put the thing up somewhere at techbase.kde.org.
15:40:45 <Kevin_Kofler> 3. I send a message to kde-packager trolling for signatures.
15:41:05 <rdieter> signatures and feedback (constructive)
15:41:06 <Kevin_Kofler> 4. I send the thing to kde-core-devel with support from hopefully many distro packagers.
15:41:27 <rdieter> 5. profit and unicorns!
15:41:30 <Kevin_Kofler> Yeah, "trolling" was probably not the right word. ;-)
15:43:55 <dvratil> sounds reasonable
15:44:09 <dvratil> (both the proposal and the plan) :)
15:44:53 <Kevin_Kofler> Any of you who wants to have their name added, you can either let me know now, or you can just add yourself when I put the stuff on a wiki.
15:45:58 <Kevin_Kofler> I think that's all about the symbol versioning proposal for now.
15:49:42 <rdieter> ok
15:49:46 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
15:49:48 <rdieter> anything else for today?
15:50:53 <Kevin_Kofler> So, what's the conclusion of the Phonon/KNotify4 issue we discussed on #fedora-kde earlier?
15:51:25 <Kevin_Kofler> I think we want to apply the KNotify4 patch from ROSA and push that together with the Phonon update.
15:52:03 <Kevin_Kofler> (or at least ASAP, but I'd rather not ship F20 with that bug, I'd rather make sure we withhold the new Phonon until it is fixed)
15:53:48 <rdieter> oh yeah
15:54:15 <rdieter> dvratil: do you have an opinion ?
15:54:23 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: rats, I don't have the bug# handy, do you?
15:54:38 <rdieter> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324975
15:54:40 <Kevin_Kofler> #link https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324975
15:54:40 <rdieter> there we go
15:55:03 <Kevin_Kofler> So, cancel the stable push request for phonon?
15:55:27 <rdieter> naw, we can fix it separately, no need to block it
15:55:31 <rdieter> imo
15:55:54 <rdieter> colin's last followup is compelling to me
15:56:58 <rdieter> given the other patches seem to not 100% fix the problem (and have other side effects or bugs)
15:58:43 * Kevin_Kofler looks…
15:59:13 <rdieter> we're about out of time, how about we continue that discussion in #fedora-kde , and close the meeting shortly
15:59:25 <rdieter> any last thoughts?
15:59:57 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm still against using the "port to libcanberra" patch.
16:00:21 <Kevin_Kofler> Details on #fedora-kde…
16:01:39 <rdieter> thanks everyone
16:01:41 <rdieter> #endmeeting