14:00:35 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 10 14:00:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:35 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:35 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:00:49 * Sparks 
14:01:12 * jjmcd 
14:01:25 * pbokoc 
14:01:46 * zoglesby 
14:03:31 * jsmith 
14:03:38 <randomuser> quiet today
14:04:01 * Sparks is still going through his email from over the weekend.
14:04:47 <randomuser> it would take me a while to get used to the idea of 'disconnecting' over the weekend
14:04:56 * lnovich is here
14:05:57 <Sparks> randomuser: It's easy.  Just don't open *that* laptop
14:06:06 <pbokoc> http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1158287/tumbleweed-o.gif
14:06:19 <Sparks> randomuser: That's not to say that I wasn't tossing bits over the weekend, just not work-related emails.
14:06:28 <randomuser> hrmph
14:07:11 <randomuser> There's a "new Writers" section on the agenda, if there are such, speak up
14:07:16 * pkovar is late
14:07:36 <randomuser> until then, I'm moving past it to avoid pbokoc's tumbleweed assault
14:07:48 <randomuser> (do they even have tumbleweeds in CZ?)
14:07:58 <pbokoc> not really :)
14:07:59 <randomuser> #topic Publican / Publishing
14:08:05 <randomuser> heh, i should mail you one
14:08:27 <randomuser> I have heard no news on the status of this project
14:08:43 <Sparks> Me neither.
14:09:01 <Sparks> AFAIK, the build system is up and operational but we're still waiting on the backend.
14:09:11 * jsmith hasn't heard anything either
14:09:13 <Sparks> nb might be able to update us more.
14:09:31 * Sparks has been trying to catch rudi in the evenings without any luck.
14:09:54 * randomuser waits hopefully for a response from nb
14:10:29 <randomuser> Sparks, i see you have some builds in el6-docs; that's progress
14:10:47 <Sparks> randomuser: Yeah, I need to go ahead and build the rest of my stuff there.
14:10:53 <Sparks> randomuser: And other people can too!
14:11:10 <zoglesby> Sparks: are there instructions for that yet?
14:11:23 <randomuser> sounds like something I would break and not be able to fix
14:11:33 <Sparks> zoglesby: Ummm...  sure.  And I can write them down too.
14:12:04 <Sparks> randomuser: It's really quite easy.  Two steps with no waiting.
14:12:18 <randomuser> #action Sparks to write preliminary howto for building docs in koji
14:12:29 <randomuser> #undo
14:12:29 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by randomuser at 14:12:18 : Sparks to write preliminary howto for building docs in koji
14:12:45 <randomuser> #action Sparks to add preliminary howto for building docs in koji to the documentation guide
14:12:49 <randomuser> ha!
14:13:33 <Sparks> randomuser: Okay
14:13:40 <randomuser> awesome
14:14:39 <randomuser> I have a suspicion that we can't get into the staging box, including nb to set up access, because we aren't rudi
14:15:27 <Sparks> randomuser: Well, you do need to be in the sysadmin group.
14:15:47 <randomuser> right, sysadmin-docs
14:15:55 <Sparks> Yeah, that one
14:16:11 <randomuser> that was the 'we' I referred to :)
14:16:14 <zoglesby> I am in the group and still cant ssh into docs01.dev
14:16:55 <randomuser> we won't be able to fix it here, so
14:17:00 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:17:33 * randomuser notes that the Networking Guide and Sysadmin Guide have been getting worked over, hard
14:19:06 <randomuser> I didn't have time to work on any guides last week
14:19:57 <randomuser> #info use a wishlist for your guide
14:20:18 <pbokoc> I don't have anything to report again - working hard on RH docs
14:20:31 <pbokoc> but when that's done, I'll port all of that into the Fedora guide, and it will be awesome
14:20:36 <randomuser> indeed
14:21:06 <pbokoc> fat angels singing, clouds parting, water turning into wine, all that jazz
14:21:11 <pbokoc> anyway, what about release notes?
14:21:18 <randomuser> aha!
14:21:20 <pbokoc> do we have anything new other than changes to include there?
14:21:29 <randomuser> #topic Release Notes
14:21:51 <randomuser> pbokoc, we only included changes because that's all the research we took the time to do
14:22:11 <randomuser> ideally, there will always be more in the RNs than the Change list
14:22:36 <pbokoc> randomuser, I know, we talked about it about two meetings ago. The problem is that it's really hard to scope bugs outside changes, since almost nobody uses the requires_release_note flag in Bugzilla.
14:23:11 <randomuser> right, we have to look at package changelogs, upstream changelogs, etc
14:23:19 <randomuser> *after* we decide what packages to look at
14:23:46 <pbokoc> right. If we had a (short!) list of important packages, that could work
14:23:51 <zoglesby> I may have missed this, but are we still only working on one set of release notes for the new release model?
14:23:55 <jjmcd> https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/docs/tools.git/tree/tools/checkBeat
14:23:55 <randomuser> I plan to send mails to various groups asking for participation, but that hasn't worked out great in the last few releases
14:24:40 <randomuser> zoglesby, we haven't discussed an alternative, but most changes are generally global, and the more localized changes haven't been declared
14:24:58 <jjmcd> The tech notes can expose new packages, checkBeats changes
14:25:16 <jjmcd> But deciding what is "important" is a challenge
14:25:18 <randomuser> also, no WG or community member has requested any change to our product line
14:25:21 <zoglesby> randomuser: So maybe we should just add a section for each "flavor" to the top of the release notes?
14:25:50 <randomuser> zoglesby, subset of each beat, or a dedicated beat per product?
14:25:50 <zoglesby> I.e., what new with Desktop, server, and cloud
14:26:01 <randomuser> ah
14:26:08 <zoglesby> randomuser: I have no idea, just talking at this point
14:26:30 <jjmcd> Since ppl can install wahtever package onwhatever flavor, not sure that is worth the hassle
14:26:40 <zoglesby> I am not even sure I have my head around this new model completely yet.
14:26:42 <jjmcd> sheesh the typing this morning
14:26:45 <pbokoc> that shouldn't be necessary - if the variants only differ in the default package selection
14:26:56 <jjmcd> pbokoc, zakly
14:27:02 <pbokoc> :)
14:27:05 <randomuser> pbokoc, they intend to also differ in default configurations
14:27:15 <zoglesby> jjmcd pbokoc: okay
14:27:55 <jjmcd> I like the idea of highlighting the flavors, but it seems like lots of work for little benefit
14:28:03 <randomuser> so far, the discussion I've seen is mostly *how* they will achieve that result, not how they would be different
14:28:43 <randomuser> hmm
14:28:44 <zoglesby> randomuser: We may just have to wait and see how it plays out this cycle and adjust next time
14:28:58 <jjmcd> good plan
14:29:19 <randomuser> well, they are supposed to be submitting Changes for every bullet point
14:29:38 <randomuser> so we should have a good picture of the products from that perspective
14:29:42 <zoglesby> It seems to me that everyone has their own ideas of how this is going to work anyway. So why not just see what actually happens and adjust accordingly.
14:30:00 <randomuser> heh
14:30:53 <randomuser> proposal: table product representation in RNs until there's a specific strategy or event to discuss
14:31:13 <jjmcd> +1
14:32:09 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats?rd=Docs/Beats
14:32:18 <zoglesby> #agreed
14:32:22 <randomuser> #info Start on beats now!
14:33:27 <randomuser> back to pbokoc's point - if the more experienced writers do things like list important packages for a beat - say, on the talk page - it would make it much easier for new beat writers to participate
14:34:27 <randomuser> that's all i've got for RNs now - zoglesby ?
14:34:50 <zoglesby> I am good
14:35:04 <randomuser> for some reason it seemed appropriate to single you out :/
14:35:15 <randomuser> #topic Docs FAD
14:35:18 <zoglesby> randomuser: thanks
14:35:53 <randomuser> Sparks, any news on lodging?
14:36:49 <randomuser> ... or other FAD things?
14:37:28 <Sparks> randomuser: We have lodging.
14:37:37 <randomuser> ha, you're still here
14:37:38 * Sparks needs to update the wiki page and will do so today.
14:37:50 <Sparks> randomuser: Sorry, my VPN dropped out.
14:38:06 <randomuser> Sparks, since we're all confused about this products thing, do you know anyone in Raleigh that's involved that might like to visit with us?
14:38:20 <Sparks> I'm still waiting for a callback from the RDU person in charge of space.  I've reserved meeting space but I'm not sure what I've reserved.
14:38:23 <Sparks> :)
14:38:31 <Sparks> I do not.
14:38:36 <randomuser> jreznik may attend in brno, for example
14:38:45 <Sparks> I mean, I guess I can talk to what I know.
14:39:04 * lbazan here
14:39:09 <jreznik> randomuser: I plan to do so
14:39:11 <randomuser> yeah, I'm hoping that you at least know who is involved :P
14:39:18 <jreznik> just I need reminder :)
14:41:18 <randomuser> okay, that was my one point on the FAD
14:54:25 <jjmcd> Fr 13-18, Sa 08-20, Su 08-12  -  How's that lnovich?
14:54:47 <Sparks> jjmcd: Who's timezone?
14:55:00 <jjmcd> good point.
14:55:11 <jjmcd> I guess we better all be on Z eh?
14:55:32 <jjmcd> Of course, we'll all be screwed up after staying up to watch Albert Park the week before so ...
14:55:41 <randomuser> jhradilek and I had initially discussed a ~1400 or 1500UTC start time
14:57:01 <randomuser> I'm hesitant to block of a set number of hours for a given topic and try and force our actual work to fit into those blocks
14:57:39 <Sparks> randomuser: We should at least block out time...  :)
14:57:43 <randomuser> bah
14:58:00 <jjmcd> I'm guessing that some folks would work on publishing system while others working on guides
14:58:01 <randomuser> i think we're coming up against QA, everyone please join #fedora-docs to discuss this
14:58:06 <lnovich> i mean attempting to be somewhat professional about this would be good
14:58:20 <jjmcd> lnovich, what?
14:58:50 <lnovich> the agenda jjmcd
14:58:50 <jjmcd> lnovich, have you ever seen this crowd???
14:58:59 <randomuser> heh
14:59:11 <randomuser> okay, shove over, people
14:59:14 <randomuser> #endmeeting