14:59:47 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
14:59:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 24 14:59:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:59:50 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
14:59:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
14:59:59 <adamw> #topic Roll call
15:00:00 * roshi is here
15:00:03 * kparal waves
15:00:06 <adamw> ahoyhoy
15:00:08 * jreznik_ is around
15:00:17 * mkrizek is here
15:00:20 <jreznik> no, jreznik is around!
15:00:21 * tflink is here
15:01:10 * satellit listening
15:01:31 <adamw> there appear to be tanks on the lawns of the capital of jreznik_
15:02:25 <kparal> that would be a different country
15:03:07 <adamw> welp, thanks for being here, reznik and reznik_ alike
15:03:18 <jreznik> butchers!
15:04:07 <adamw> oh dear, has anyone seen Bill Clinton? we need a neutral third-party dispute resolution specialist in here.
15:04:19 <adamw> #topic Fedora.next status
15:04:24 * pschindl is here
15:04:34 * jreznik knows a few Monikas to help adamw and Bill
15:04:36 <adamw> so i threw this on the list as a sort of just-in-case, but not sure there's a lot to talk about at present
15:04:45 <kparal> pschindl: too late, go into the corner of shame
15:05:19 <pschindl> kparal: ok :'-(
15:05:31 <roshi> wait, this room has corners?
15:05:41 * roshi 's head asplode
15:05:50 <kparal> it has now, specially for pschindl
15:05:57 <adamw> roshi: there's also a couch
15:06:04 <adamw> every irc channel has a couch. little-known fact.
15:06:22 <roshi> TIL
15:06:23 * danofsatx-work is here.....just building a server in the background
15:06:48 <adamw> server's working on the role API
15:07:04 <adamw> workstation doesn't appear to be doing much of anything
15:07:10 * handsome_pirate waves
15:07:18 <adamw> anyone been following base and stacks?
15:07:53 <danofsatx-work> I peek in on their meetings, but no, I haven't really been paying much attention. I've noticed nothing earth-shattering in my peeks.
15:08:26 <adamw> okey dokey
15:08:27 <tflink> trying to follow stacks but am a bit behind
15:08:48 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  stacks is working on a repo for stuff that doesn't quite meet packaging guidlines
15:08:59 <adamw> i was vaguely planning to look at the 'testing to specs' idea this week but wound up doing more miscellaneous-annoying-bug fixing
15:09:16 <adamw> oh, right, yeah. that could be interesting
15:09:23 <adamw> playground, right?
15:09:24 * handsome_pirate has been trying to guide that along to make sure that it has minumum quality guidelines, such as no conflicts
15:09:30 <adamw> handsome_pirate: cool, thanks for keeping an eye
15:09:39 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  playground, aye
15:09:49 <adamw> presumably we should be apply to apply tasktron to it where appropriate?
15:09:57 <handsome_pirate> Indeed
15:10:13 <tflink> yeah, I think that's a plan once things get figured out a bit more
15:10:18 <adamw> #info handsome_pirate has been providing QA input for the stacks WG's 'playground' repository idea
15:10:23 <roshi> cloud has also been talking about taskotron
15:10:26 <adamw> thanks for keeping up with that
15:10:41 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  Roger
15:10:51 <tflink> roshi: has there been any more recent conversations on that? the last I saw was a week or two ago
15:11:07 <roshi> not that I've seen - but I plan to double back and make sure
15:12:07 <adamw> sounds like we're mostly on top of stuff
15:12:28 <adamw> #topic Taskotron check-in
15:12:43 <adamw> so, how are things?
15:12:52 <adamw> ('being held up by pointless meetings', I hear you say)
15:13:08 <tflink> slower than I want it to be :)
15:13:12 <adamw> what story are you working on today?!
15:13:18 * kparal is working on porting config files and classes from autoqa
15:13:38 * handsome_pirate is working on depcheck, and has bogged himself down in bugs
15:13:43 <kparal> btw, unit tests are so cool unless you need to create them ;)
15:13:49 <roshi> haha
15:13:52 * mkrizek is working on the trigger
15:13:54 * tflink is working to get a semi-public deployment ready
15:13:54 <jreznik> adamw: for base - we don't have much now, trying to take a look on where the overlap of WG is, stacks still discuss playground repo - one place taskotron could be useful (not being completely OT now)
15:13:56 <adamw> kparal: don't worry, i'm sure all your code will be right first time
15:14:10 <adamw> jreznik: hush, i want to hear jreznik_'s opinion
15:14:46 <tflink> jreznik: is that conversation far enough along to start talking about automating checks for it?
15:14:47 <adamw> tflink: well, that sounds promising
15:15:09 <jreznik> adamw: there's still that discussion if it should be one repo, more repos, coprs collections etc. but mostly they agreed on one thing - no conflicts and some tool to check it would be required
15:15:12 <adamw> #info tflink is working to get a semi-public taskotron deployment ready
15:15:20 <jreznik> tflink: not so far :(
15:15:29 <jreznik> still in circle - one repo vs more repos
15:15:51 <handsome_pirate> Yeah, that email thread is reaching epic proportions
15:16:08 <handsome_pirate> Not quite debian systemd vs sysv thread, but, still ...
15:16:29 * tflink is still not sure how some of that would work for checking builds and how they relate to the non-playground repos
15:16:47 <handsome_pirate> tflink:  I'm firmly for one repos
15:16:52 <handsome_pirate> s/repos/repo
15:16:59 <handsome_pirate> Just because it would be easier to handle
15:17:20 <adamw> tflink: don't we already have to test  things from updates-testing against the base repo+'updates' anyway?
15:18:14 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  Yes
15:18:21 <jreznik> handsome_pirate: and I talked to Mirek today and seems like Copr/DNF guys are almost there to allow Coprs collections...
15:19:40 <tflink> adamw: yeah, but how does the playground repo fit in to all that? isn't part of the reason for it to allow things that would otherwise conflict with the official repos?
15:19:47 <adamw> oh, i see
15:19:50 <adamw> fun
15:20:12 <jreznik> tflink: one task are conflicts within this repo itself
15:20:16 <adamw> so more an issue of setting policy and the 'enforcement' of different policies via taskotron
15:20:27 <jreznik> so it's really hard to have one that fit all use cases
15:20:34 <handsome_pirate> tflink:  Yeah, I'm trying to prevent conflicts within the repo
15:20:39 * masta looks in
15:20:57 <jreznik> but the idea would - let start with one single with loose policy and once we have it, step forward on work on that -ugly, -incubator etc. repos
15:20:57 <masta> ah qa meeting, nvrmind
15:21:03 <handsome_pirate> tflink:  And, if something conflicts with what's in the primary repos, then it should be a 1 for 1 replacement, a la mariadb
15:21:14 <handsome_pirate> masta:  Thanks!
15:21:21 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  I think that calls for a firing
15:21:39 * masta runs
15:22:29 <adamw> .fire masta
15:22:29 <zodbot> adamw fires masta
15:22:34 <adamw> you can run, but you can't hide
15:22:42 <jreznik> lol
15:22:54 <roshi> quick, he's under the couch!
15:23:01 <jreznik> in the corner
15:23:08 <roshi> lol
15:23:11 <adamw> seems like maybe it's still too early to have a focused discussion on this
15:23:15 <adamw> (not that that's ever stopped us before)
15:23:25 <tflink> yeah, I'm not sure there's much point right now
15:23:29 <jreznik> adamw: it's really early
15:23:48 <jreznik> but it was more like heads up some kind of help will be needed
15:24:16 <adamw> #info there are some important questions to settle about using taskotron with the planned new 'playground' repository/repositories, but the plan is not yet settled enough to decide them
15:24:27 <adamw> anything else on taskotron?
15:25:04 <tflink> nothing else that I can think of, no
15:25:14 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  Could you get tflink to come hold a knife to me to get depcheck done? :)
15:25:30 <adamw> it doesn't seem like the *most* efficient use of his time
15:25:50 <adamw> i'll see what I can find on rentaminorcriminal.com
15:26:01 <roshi> besides, I don't think you could *officially* do that - the job description would have to be more general
15:26:09 <kparal> 404
15:26:25 <adamw> #info if anyone happens to be passing by handsome_pirate's office, please threaten him with major criminal violence
15:26:29 <roshi> "to hold 5-7oz motivational object for long duration" or something
15:26:30 <tflink> is threatening someone like that really a _minor_ offence?
15:27:08 <roshi> it's merely motivational object holding, right?
15:27:08 <adamw> roshi: i dare you to slip that one through your next evaluation
15:27:32 <handsome_pirate> roshi:  Aye
15:27:36 <roshi> it's like the proverbial carrot and stick, only sharper and less tasty
15:27:38 <roshi> lol
15:28:02 <handsome_pirate> Hrm, or just get me drunk and then make me code
15:28:07 <adamw> i don't know, i prefer the taste of knife to the taste of stick.
15:28:10 <handsome_pirate> I write my best code while intoxicated
15:28:13 <roshi> haha
15:28:25 <jreznik> balmer's peak?
15:28:29 <adamw> #topic Release validation status / tasks
15:28:30 * handsome_pirate wonders how adamw knows what knife tastes like
15:28:36 <handsome_pirate> jreznik:  Exactly!
15:28:36 <danofsatx-work> handsome_pirate: https://xkcd.com/323/
15:28:56 <adamw> handsome_pirate: i'd tell you, but the ptsd counselors warned against it.
15:29:03 <handsome_pirate> lol
15:29:45 <adamw> you know, xkcd *says* "You can't just give a team of coders a year's supply of whiskey and tell them to get cracking", but I've met the anaconda devs.
15:30:35 <adamw> so thanks for the feedback on the storage validation stuff
15:30:49 <adamw> that's really on me to read back through the feedback and work up another draft. possibly with some actual test cases this time.
15:31:04 <tflink> adamw: says the guy who "appropriates" his fellow team members' yearly whiskey supply ...
15:31:30 <handsome_pirate> tflink:  I was there, you had your fair share ...
15:31:32 <adamw> if anyone else was at a loose end, it's worth going through the release criteria pages' 'reference' sections and looking for ones without matching validation tests. and writing some.
15:32:06 * handsome_pirate wonders if he should dust off his btrfs test cases since workstation is looking at that
15:33:18 <adamw> no, you should work on depcheck. ;)
15:33:34 <adamw> but if you could drop me a link (or post it on list) that'd be handy
15:33:35 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  Aye, aye, cap'n
15:33:46 * adamw brandishes large knife
15:35:14 <adamw> #info handsome_pirate has some btrfs test cases lying around somewhere that adamw could work into the storage validation plans
15:35:23 <adamw> not sure i really have anything else on this
15:35:46 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  I did 'em a few years ago when we were first looking at btrfs as default
15:36:09 <handsome_pirate> adamw:  I'll round them up and email them.
15:36:25 <adamw> thanks
15:36:44 <adamw> #topic open floor
15:36:48 <adamw> welp, no use prolonging the agony
15:37:02 <adamw> anyone got anything important i've characteristically entirely failed to think about?
15:37:26 <danofsatx-work> zodbot is currently disabled from notifying #fedora-qa
15:37:46 <nirik> so, I saw that this weekend... it wasn't zodbot's fault. ;)
15:37:54 <danofsatx-work> it was spamming the channel on Saturday with F20 and F19 pre-release bugs that haven't been touched in months, so nb disabled it for us
15:38:34 <nirik> bugzilla's rss feeds were dropping off and back on. But yeah, removing those old milestones is good. No need for them anymore anyhow.
15:39:28 <adamw> thanks for taking care of that
15:39:32 <danofsatx-work> yeah, closing the tracking bugs was going to be my follow-up question. Shouldn't that be on a release checklist of some sort?
15:40:04 * nirik doesn't know... don't they just end of life like any other bugs for that release? or should they close at release time?
15:40:35 <danofsatx-work> well, what's the point of a freeze exception or release blocker tracking bug after release?
15:40:39 <adamw> we've never been entirely organized about it before
15:40:59 <adamw> it's sometimes useful to go back and check 'em, but i can't think of any convincing argument for keeping them open
15:41:20 <adamw> i could stick it in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers
15:41:35 <handsome_pirate> Probably a good call
15:42:28 <adamw> #action adamw to add closing tracker bugs post-release to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers
15:42:31 <adamw> thanks for the idea
15:43:02 <danofsatx-work> yer welcome ;)
15:43:05 <jreznik> maybe we can migrate stuff from BugZappers namespace... there's more regarding HouseKeeping also FedoraXX I'm using
15:43:29 <adamw> yeah, it's a bit of a mess
15:44:14 <adamw> but i at least remember to check that page once a cycle, so if the note's there, it'll probably get done...
15:45:15 <adamw> anything else?
15:46:13 <danofsatx-work> not from this corner
15:46:33 * handsome_pirate takes a look around from the Crow's Nest
15:46:38 * handsome_pirate sees nothing
15:46:57 <danofsatx-work> wait, you mean we finished under an hour?
15:48:03 <tflink> danofsatx-work: don't jinx it
15:48:21 * danofsatx-work is furiously knocking on the fake wood desk
15:48:23 <adamw> it's easy to finish nothing
15:48:41 <adamw> alrighty, back to pretending to work, everyone!
15:48:44 <adamw> thanks for coming
15:48:50 <adamw> #endmeeting