14:04:29 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 14:04:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 27 14:04:29 2014 UTC. The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:04:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:04:31 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs 14:04:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs' 14:04:31 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call 14:04:52 * sclark is here 14:04:55 * jjmcd 14:05:12 * pbokoc 14:08:33 <randomuser> Okay, no action items from last week, so let's carry on 14:08:50 <randomuser> ...and, I don't see any new writers 14:08:58 <randomuser> #topic Release Note Beats 14:09:31 <randomuser> The release notes are still a thing we work on 14:09:41 * randomuser sips coffee, gathers thoughts 14:09:51 <pbokoc> there's still a ton of bugs on ASSIGNED 14:09:56 <pbokoc> well, not a ton, but like 8 or 9 14:10:03 <randomuser> ...winter is starting to kick in, it feels especially *morning* this morning 14:10:03 <pbokoc> ...or 7 14:10:53 <randomuser> Change bugs, pbokoc ? 14:11:01 <pbokoc> yeah 14:11:55 <randomuser> #info Still some self contained changes in ASSIGNED 14:12:01 <pbokoc> randomuser, did you write this? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1090886 14:12:04 <pbokoc> I saw a commit 14:12:19 <randomuser> yes, I did 14:12:39 <pbokoc> nice. Just set the relnotes flag to + please 14:12:42 <randomuser> pbokoc, flagged, thanks 14:12:49 <pbokoc> :) 14:13:03 <pbokoc> other than that we still need to cover the Apache stuff 14:13:04 <randomuser> #info TODO: write server beat introduction 14:13:21 <randomuser> #undo 14:13:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by randomuser at 14:13:04 : TODO: write server beat introduction 14:13:28 <randomuser> #info TODO: write Server Product beat introduction 14:13:34 <randomuser> #info TODO: write Cloud Product beat introduction 14:13:43 <randomuser> jsmith, ^^ 14:13:58 <sclark> pbokoc: I have done release note entries for the Apache stuff. 14:14:00 <jsmith> Yeah, I'll take the cloud beat :-) 14:14:20 <randomuser> jsmith, I did a first draft of some related changes 14:14:22 <pbokoc> sclark, oh, they're done? 14:14:28 <pbokoc> that's awesome! 14:14:28 <jsmith> randomuser: Awesome, thanks 14:14:51 <randomuser> #info sclark is awesome 14:15:09 <pbokoc> sclark, btw, did you solve your problems with BZ? I remember you couldnt' 14:15:17 <pbokoc> damn my keyboard 14:15:25 <pbokoc> ...couldn't set yourself as docs contact or manipulate flags 14:15:39 <sclark> pbokoc: I have raised a BZ User Accounts bug. 14:16:09 <sclark> pbokoc: What is the convention for release note flags? What do + and - mean? 14:16:14 <randomuser> sclark, we'll ask in #fedora-admin too 14:16:36 <randomuser> ? would be if someone things it might go in RNs, + is if we agree 14:16:39 <sclark> randomuser: Thanks. I did try to ask in there but got no reply. 14:16:41 <pbokoc> sclark, + means "the release note has been written", - means "this won't need a release note in this release" 14:16:51 <randomuser> although in this context, what pbokoc said 14:16:55 <pbokoc> not set means "we don't know yet" 14:17:19 <pbokoc> and we don't really use the "?" state... it could mean something like "written but needs review" but meh 14:17:28 <sclark> pbokoc: Understand flags now. Thanks. 14:18:33 <randomuser> I saw rkratky got the KDE5 stuff through 14:18:47 <randomuser> so... we might be covered on Changes? 14:18:58 <pbokoc> randomuser, we have a couple left 14:19:14 <pbokoc> the important ones are IIRC two file systems, two ARM-related changes 14:19:23 <randomuser> ah! ARM, yes 14:19:30 <pbokoc> some cloud stuff, too 14:19:43 <randomuser> I put ARM in the product area 14:20:35 <pbokoc> and this seems dead: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1098143 14:21:20 <randomuser> pbokoc, the packages are in 14:22:17 <pbokoc> #link http://red.ht/1sPgI5t <- Changes for F21; scroll down, click Change Columns, set "flags" and "docs contact" to display and hide anything you don't need 14:22:18 <randomuser> ...I'll keep an eye on it 14:22:58 <randomuser> So at this point, we need to verify content, and look for omissions 14:23:45 <randomuser> Ryanlerch and ajax helpfully shared a very good summary of graphics backend changes.. on fedora Magazine... I think we should coopt it 14:25:36 <randomuser> jjmcd, any circuitry stuff coming our way? 14:25:48 <jjmcd> not today 14:26:00 <jjmcd> possibly Wed tho, finally starting to get past all the exercises 14:26:25 <randomuser> great, hang in there :P 14:26:28 <jjmcd> Been a month of driving places 14:27:48 <randomuser> let's move on to... 14:28:05 <randomuser> #topic Outreach 14:28:32 <randomuser> mattdm sent us an email this morning about participating in Fedora's new governance structure 14:28:54 <randomuser> ...Hopefully everyone is aware at this point 14:30:14 <randomuser> So, I don't know that we can discuss it at this point, but i'll encourage everyone to read the message and respond on the list 14:31:13 <pbokoc> I've got nothing on that :) 14:31:32 <randomuser> we're categorized provisionally with marketing and websites and such, and not with development, which I thought was interesting; not wrong, but debatable 14:32:04 <randomuser> but it does feel good to have our group included, thanks matt 14:32:31 <randomuser> #topic Publican and Publishing 14:33:07 <randomuser> jfearn has been talking every so often on our mailing list, so I asked him about some things that confused me in this process. 14:33:20 <randomuser> ...that's really all I have to say about it 14:33:51 <randomuser> although, remember those 'bogus db entry' warnings when publishing? that still happens with RPMs 14:34:28 <pbokoc> heh 14:34:44 <randomuser> does anyone have other news about publishing, before we move on? 14:35:30 * randomuser infers no 14:35:38 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status 14:36:00 <randomuser> pbokoc, you have the crucial guide at this stage, how can we help? 14:36:22 <pbokoc> randomuser, write the boot media creation procedures :) 14:37:14 <pbokoc> #info Help wanted with the Installation Guide, mostly need someone to write a chapter about upgrades (with FedUp and Anaconda) 14:37:21 <pbokoc> #undo 14:37:33 <randomuser> okay, I'll work on that 14:37:38 <pbokoc> ah, damn, randomuser please undo :) 14:37:49 <randomuser> #chair pbokoc 14:37:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbokoc randomuser 14:37:57 <pbokoc> #undo 14:37:57 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by pbokoc at 14:37:14 : Help wanted with the Installation Guide, mostly need someone to write a chapter about upgrades (with FedUp and Anaconda) 14:38:11 <randomuser> Is there a stronger admonition than <warning> ? 14:38:13 <pbokoc> #info Help wanted with the Installation Guide, mostly need someone to write a chapter about upgrades (with FedUp and Anaconda); ask pbokoc in the channel for instructions and other tasks 14:38:19 <pbokoc> randomuser, nope 14:38:49 <pbokoc> what do you need a stronger warning for? 14:38:49 <randomuser> hrm... we could use one 14:39:03 <randomuser> pbokoc, people *really like* to use unetbootin 14:39:29 <tusharkumar> randomuser: What's your opinion on Storage Admin Guide? It would help if I can get a list of changes from f14 to f20 otherwise, that guide is really well written. 14:40:02 <pbokoc> randomuser, that's not even warning-worthy, really. If you use it, the worst thing that can happen is that you won't be able to boot from the media you made, right? 14:40:38 <randomuser> pbokoc, the worst thing to happen is that they blame fedora :P 14:40:53 <pbokoc> randomuser, yeah, but the point is that it's not going to nuke your hard drive or anything 14:41:15 <randomuser> tusharkumar, doing the research is part of the work that needs to be done 14:41:38 <randomuser> pbokoc, <warning>DONT USE UNETBOOTIN OR YOU WILL IRRITATE RANDOMUSER</warning> 14:41:45 <pbokoc> the admonitions should be used based on what the worst-case scenario is: <important> if you *might* lose data by following the instructions, and <warning> if you *will* lose data (like when using dd) 14:42:13 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Agreed. 14:42:14 <pbokoc> randomuser, weeeeell, if you're planning to drive to the user's place and wreck their computer with a cricket bat then yeah, that's warning-worthy :-D 14:42:15 <randomuser> yeah, yeah, I know 14:42:54 <randomuser> pbokoc, I would personally volunteer for that duty, sign me up for an expense account! 14:43:33 <pbokoc> <warning>watch out for a Ford Bronco with a bearded man frothing at the mouth behind the wheel</warning> 14:43:40 <randomuser> tusharkumar, I think NFS needs a lot of work, we're using NFSv4 now 14:43:49 <randomuser> heh 14:44:12 <tusharkumar> pbokoc: How would you suggest people to make bootable USB with Fedora if they are on Windows or any other Linux distro? 14:44:37 <tusharkumar> There is this.. universal usb something software.. 14:44:38 <pbokoc> tusharkumar, I'm told that the best way on any case is to use dd 14:44:47 <randomuser> tusharkumar, you could reach out to some Fedora community and ask them to file bugs, if you are willing to see them through 14:44:55 <tusharkumar> pbokoc: On windows? 14:45:25 <pbokoc> tusharkumar, it's not as easy on Windows as on Unix-based systems, but I hear there is something like "dd for Win" 14:45:29 <randomuser> tusharkumar, there's a wiki page that explains things fairly well. There are *strong admonitions* not to use 'universal USB writers' 14:46:00 <pbokoc> and on Linux and Mac, definitely dd - you don't have to install anything and it works every time 14:46:19 <randomuser> tusharkumar, we have a hybrid ISO that does USB/optical/BIOS/UEFI and those things all pretend the image is a BIOS OPTICAL and just slap syslinux in front 14:46:21 <pbokoc> (unless you accidentally write the image to your root or something) 14:46:26 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Sure :) I was just asking because unetbootin is something that most people use.. :) 14:46:36 <randomuser> tusharkumar, hence my frustration 14:46:52 <pbokoc> don't agitate him anymore! :-D 14:47:09 * randomuser vibrates angrily 14:47:11 <tusharkumar> I am laughing from past 5 minutes.. :D 14:48:12 <randomuser> Let's move this along, I have another meeting backing this one 14:48:15 * rkratky just realized it's not summer time any more 14:48:17 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor 14:48:34 <randomuser> rkratky, me too, about an hour ago 14:48:43 <randomuser> oh, time change? 14:48:54 <pbokoc> yeah, DST ended yesterday 14:48:57 <pbokoc> for us 14:49:01 <randomuser> we haven't done that yet, because of... elections or some crap 14:49:10 <rkratky> randomuser: yep, time change. i'm all ready for the meeting to start in 10 min... 14:49:21 <pbokoc> rkratky, you can join the QA meeting :) 14:49:50 * randomuser is convinced that there is no longer a need to change clocks to trick farmers into working more, and DST should die in a fire 14:49:59 <pbokoc> #agreed 14:50:33 <sclark> pbokoc: going back to discussions at the start of the meeting, I have now found that I can add flags to bugs but still cannot edit. 14:51:26 <randomuser> sclark, i have an idea 14:52:19 <randomuser> sclark, open a trac ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ 14:53:29 <randomuser> they'll look into it 14:53:54 <sclark> randomuser: I will do that. Thanks. 14:54:13 <randomuser> sclark, between us, we can do around the clock nagging about it :) 14:54:32 * sclark grins 14:54:45 <randomuser> okay, if there are no objections, I'm going to end the meeting so I can have a few minutes to prep for my next one 14:55:11 <pbokoc> I'm fine with that 14:55:26 <randomuser> worksforme 14:55:33 <randomuser> thanks for coming, everyone 14:55:36 <randomuser> #endmeeting