14:04:29 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:04:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 27 14:04:29 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:04:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:04:31 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:04:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:04:31 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:04:52 * sclark is here
14:04:55 * jjmcd 
14:05:12 * pbokoc 
14:08:33 <randomuser> Okay, no action items from last week, so let's carry on
14:08:50 <randomuser> ...and, I don't see any new writers
14:08:58 <randomuser> #topic Release Note Beats
14:09:31 <randomuser> The release notes are still a thing we work on
14:09:41 * randomuser sips coffee, gathers thoughts
14:09:51 <pbokoc> there's still a ton of bugs on ASSIGNED
14:09:56 <pbokoc> well, not a ton, but like 8 or 9
14:10:03 <randomuser> ...winter is starting to kick in, it feels especially *morning* this morning
14:10:03 <pbokoc> ...or 7
14:10:53 <randomuser> Change bugs, pbokoc ?
14:11:01 <pbokoc> yeah
14:11:55 <randomuser> #info Still some self contained changes in ASSIGNED
14:12:01 <pbokoc> randomuser, did you write this? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1090886
14:12:04 <pbokoc> I saw a commit
14:12:19 <randomuser> yes, I did
14:12:39 <pbokoc> nice. Just set the relnotes flag to + please
14:12:42 <randomuser> pbokoc, flagged, thanks
14:12:49 <pbokoc> :)
14:13:03 <pbokoc> other than that we still need to cover the Apache stuff
14:13:04 <randomuser> #info TODO: write server beat introduction
14:13:21 <randomuser> #undo
14:13:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by randomuser at 14:13:04 : TODO: write server beat introduction
14:13:28 <randomuser> #info TODO: write Server Product beat introduction
14:13:34 <randomuser> #info TODO: write Cloud Product beat introduction
14:13:43 <randomuser> jsmith, ^^
14:13:58 <sclark> pbokoc: I have done release note entries for the Apache stuff.
14:14:00 <jsmith> Yeah, I'll take the cloud beat :-)
14:14:20 <randomuser> jsmith, I did a first draft of some related changes
14:14:22 <pbokoc> sclark, oh, they're done?
14:14:28 <pbokoc> that's awesome!
14:14:28 <jsmith> randomuser: Awesome, thanks
14:14:51 <randomuser> #info sclark is awesome
14:15:09 <pbokoc> sclark, btw, did you solve your problems with BZ? I remember you couldnt'
14:15:17 <pbokoc> damn my keyboard
14:15:25 <pbokoc> ...couldn't set yourself as docs contact or manipulate flags
14:15:39 <sclark> pbokoc: I have raised a BZ User Accounts bug.
14:16:09 <sclark> pbokoc: What is the convention for release note flags?  What do + and - mean?
14:16:14 <randomuser> sclark, we'll ask in #fedora-admin too
14:16:36 <randomuser> ? would be if someone things it might go in RNs, + is if we agree
14:16:39 <sclark> randomuser:  Thanks. I did try to ask in there but got no reply.
14:16:41 <pbokoc> sclark, + means "the release note has been written", - means "this won't need a release note in this release"
14:16:51 <randomuser> although in this context, what pbokoc said
14:16:55 <pbokoc> not set means "we don't know yet"
14:17:19 <pbokoc> and we don't really use the "?" state... it could mean something like "written but needs review" but meh
14:17:28 <sclark> pbokoc: Understand flags now. Thanks.
14:18:33 <randomuser> I saw rkratky got the KDE5 stuff through
14:18:47 <randomuser> so... we might be covered on Changes?
14:18:58 <pbokoc> randomuser, we have a couple left
14:19:14 <pbokoc> the important ones are IIRC two file systems, two ARM-related changes
14:19:23 <randomuser> ah! ARM, yes
14:19:30 <pbokoc> some cloud stuff, too
14:19:43 <randomuser> I put ARM in the product area
14:20:35 <pbokoc> and this seems dead: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1098143
14:21:20 <randomuser> pbokoc, the packages are in
14:22:17 <pbokoc> #link http://red.ht/1sPgI5t <- Changes for F21; scroll down, click Change Columns, set "flags" and "docs contact" to display and hide anything you don't need
14:22:18 <randomuser> ...I'll keep an eye on it
14:22:58 <randomuser> So at this point, we need to verify content, and look for omissions
14:23:45 <randomuser> Ryanlerch and ajax helpfully shared a very good summary of graphics backend changes.. on fedora Magazine... I think we should coopt it
14:25:36 <randomuser> jjmcd, any circuitry stuff coming our way?
14:25:48 <jjmcd> not today
14:26:00 <jjmcd> possibly Wed tho, finally starting to get past all the exercises
14:26:25 <randomuser> great, hang in there :P
14:26:28 <jjmcd> Been a month of driving places
14:27:48 <randomuser> let's move on to...
14:28:05 <randomuser> #topic Outreach
14:28:32 <randomuser> mattdm sent us an email this morning about participating in Fedora's new governance structure
14:28:54 <randomuser> ...Hopefully everyone is aware at this point
14:30:14 <randomuser> So, I don't know that we can discuss it at this point, but i'll encourage everyone to read the message and respond on the list
14:31:13 <pbokoc> I've got nothing on that :)
14:31:32 <randomuser> we're categorized provisionally  with marketing and websites and such, and not with development, which I thought was interesting; not wrong, but debatable
14:32:04 <randomuser> but it does feel good to have our group included, thanks matt
14:32:31 <randomuser> #topic Publican and Publishing
14:33:07 <randomuser> jfearn has been talking every so often on our mailing list, so I asked him about some things that confused me in this process.
14:33:20 <randomuser> ...that's really all I have to say about it
14:33:51 <randomuser> although, remember those 'bogus db entry' warnings when publishing? that still happens with RPMs
14:34:28 <pbokoc> heh
14:34:44 <randomuser> does anyone have other news about publishing, before we move on?
14:35:30 * randomuser infers no
14:35:38 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:36:00 <randomuser> pbokoc, you have the crucial guide at this stage, how can we help?
14:36:22 <pbokoc> randomuser, write the boot media creation procedures :)
14:37:14 <pbokoc> #info Help wanted with the Installation Guide, mostly need someone to write a chapter about upgrades (with FedUp and Anaconda)
14:37:21 <pbokoc> #undo
14:37:33 <randomuser> okay, I'll work on that
14:37:38 <pbokoc> ah, damn, randomuser please undo :)
14:37:49 <randomuser> #chair pbokoc
14:37:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbokoc randomuser
14:37:57 <pbokoc> #undo
14:37:57 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by pbokoc at 14:37:14 : Help wanted with the Installation Guide, mostly need someone to write a chapter about upgrades (with FedUp and Anaconda)
14:38:11 <randomuser> Is there a stronger admonition than <warning> ?
14:38:13 <pbokoc> #info Help wanted with the Installation Guide, mostly need someone to write a chapter about upgrades (with FedUp and Anaconda); ask pbokoc in the channel for instructions and other tasks
14:38:19 <pbokoc> randomuser, nope
14:38:49 <pbokoc> what do you need a stronger warning for?
14:38:49 <randomuser> hrm... we could use one
14:39:03 <randomuser> pbokoc, people *really like* to use unetbootin
14:39:29 <tusharkumar> randomuser: What's your opinion on Storage Admin Guide? It would help if I can get a list of changes from f14 to f20 otherwise, that guide is really well written.
14:40:02 <pbokoc> randomuser, that's not even warning-worthy, really. If you use it, the worst thing that can happen is that you won't be able to boot from the media you made, right?
14:40:38 <randomuser> pbokoc, the worst thing to happen is that they blame fedora :P
14:40:53 <pbokoc> randomuser, yeah, but the point is that it's not going to nuke your hard drive or anything
14:41:15 <randomuser> tusharkumar, doing the research is part of the work that needs to be done
14:41:38 <randomuser> pbokoc, <warning>DONT USE UNETBOOTIN OR YOU WILL IRRITATE RANDOMUSER</warning>
14:41:45 <pbokoc> the admonitions should be used based on what the worst-case scenario is: <important> if you *might* lose data by following the instructions, and <warning> if you *will* lose data (like when using dd)
14:42:13 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Agreed.
14:42:14 <pbokoc> randomuser, weeeeell, if you're planning to drive to the user's place and wreck their computer with a cricket bat then yeah, that's warning-worthy :-D
14:42:15 <randomuser> yeah, yeah, I know
14:42:54 <randomuser> pbokoc, I would personally volunteer for that duty, sign me up for an expense account!
14:43:33 <pbokoc> <warning>watch out for a Ford Bronco with a bearded man frothing at the mouth behind the wheel</warning>
14:43:40 <randomuser> tusharkumar, I think NFS needs a lot of work, we're using NFSv4 now
14:43:49 <randomuser> heh
14:44:12 <tusharkumar> pbokoc: How would you suggest people to make bootable USB with Fedora if they are on Windows or any other Linux distro?
14:44:37 <tusharkumar> There is this.. universal usb something software..
14:44:38 <pbokoc> tusharkumar, I'm told that the best way on any case is to use dd
14:44:47 <randomuser> tusharkumar, you could reach out to some Fedora community and ask them to file bugs, if you are willing to see them through
14:44:55 <tusharkumar> pbokoc: On windows?
14:45:25 <pbokoc> tusharkumar, it's not as easy on Windows as on Unix-based systems, but I hear there is something like "dd for Win"
14:45:29 <randomuser> tusharkumar, there's a wiki page that explains things fairly well.  There are *strong admonitions* not to use 'universal USB writers'
14:46:00 <pbokoc> and on Linux and Mac, definitely dd - you don't have to install anything and it works every time
14:46:19 <randomuser> tusharkumar, we have a hybrid ISO that does USB/optical/BIOS/UEFI and those things all pretend the image is a BIOS OPTICAL and just slap syslinux in front
14:46:21 <pbokoc> (unless you accidentally write the image to your root or something)
14:46:26 <tusharkumar> randomuser: Sure :) I was just asking because unetbootin is something that most people use.. :)
14:46:36 <randomuser> tusharkumar, hence my frustration
14:46:52 <pbokoc> don't agitate him anymore! :-D
14:47:09 * randomuser vibrates angrily
14:47:11 <tusharkumar> I am laughing from past 5 minutes.. :D
14:48:12 <randomuser> Let's move this along, I have another meeting backing this one
14:48:15 * rkratky just realized it's not summer time any more
14:48:17 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor
14:48:34 <randomuser> rkratky, me too, about an hour ago
14:48:43 <randomuser> oh, time change?
14:48:54 <pbokoc> yeah, DST ended yesterday
14:48:57 <pbokoc> for us
14:49:01 <randomuser> we haven't done that yet, because of... elections or some crap
14:49:10 <rkratky> randomuser: yep, time change. i'm all ready for the meeting to start in 10 min...
14:49:21 <pbokoc> rkratky, you can join the QA meeting :)
14:49:50 * randomuser is convinced that there is no longer a need to change clocks to trick farmers into working more, and DST should die in a fire
14:49:59 <pbokoc> #agreed
14:50:33 <sclark> pbokoc: going back to discussions at the start of the meeting, I have now found that I can add flags to bugs but still cannot edit.
14:51:26 <randomuser> sclark, i have an idea
14:52:19 <randomuser> sclark, open a trac ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/
14:53:29 <randomuser> they'll look into it
14:53:54 <sclark> randomuser: I will do that.  Thanks.
14:54:13 <randomuser> sclark, between us, we can do around the clock nagging about it :)
14:54:32 * sclark grins
14:54:45 <randomuser> okay, if there are no objections, I'm going to end the meeting so I can have a few minutes to prep for my next one
14:55:11 <pbokoc> I'm fine with that
14:55:26 <randomuser> worksforme
14:55:33 <randomuser> thanks for coming, everyone
14:55:36 <randomuser> #endmeeting