06:00:19 <pravins> #startmeeting i18n
06:00:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan  7 06:00:19 2015 UTC.  The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:00:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:00:25 <pravins> #meetingname i18n
06:00:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:00:32 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call
06:00:38 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2015-01-07
06:00:44 <mfabian> Hi!
06:00:50 <ueno> hi
06:00:55 <epico> hi
06:01:07 <pravins> hi mfabian ueno epico :)
06:01:17 <paragan> hi
06:01:20 <anish_> Hi
06:01:24 <shilpa> hi
06:01:32 <pravins> hi paragan anish_ shilpa :)
06:01:35 <juhp> hi
06:01:46 <tagoh__> hi
06:01:54 <pravins> our first meeting in 2015 !!
06:02:01 <pravins> hi tagoh__ juhp :)
06:02:19 * pravins looking for fujiwara ^^
06:02:28 <pravins> almost all here, lets start the meeting.
06:02:28 <paragan> yes first meeting :)
06:02:46 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:02:52 <pravins> #info 2014-12-09 	Fedora 21 Final Release
06:02:52 <pravins> #info 2015-01-20 	Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (System Wide Changes)
06:02:52 <pravins> #info no earlier than 2015-02-10 	Branch Fedora 22 from Rawhide
06:03:37 <pravins> nothing new, as discussed in last meeting change proposal deadline is 20th Jan. That is also mentioned for system wide changes.
06:04:16 <pravins> #topic Outstanding topic
06:04:20 <pravins> #info #36: gnome redesign plans for control-center Region and Languages (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:04:20 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/36
06:04:53 <pravins> in last meeting juhp suggested for contacting 'whot' about the change to xkeyboard-config
06:05:13 <anish_> got a reply from anaconda team, they use xkb layouts
06:05:34 <anish_> I don't know what to do then
06:05:44 <juhp> anish_, sure they do...
06:05:59 <juhp> anish_, what did you ask them?
06:06:42 <anish_> i asked them would it be okay to remove xkb layouts for Indian languages
06:06:49 <juhp> ah
06:06:50 <anish_> I mean blacklist
06:07:08 <juhp> and they said?
06:07:26 <anish_> they use it as input methods are not supported
06:07:32 <anish_> in anaconda
06:07:45 <juhp> hmm
06:07:46 <pravins> does blacklisting means, anaconda cant use it?
06:08:05 <anish_> i think so
06:08:21 <paragan> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/206011.html
06:08:23 <anish_> not sure need to check how anaconda uses xkb layouts
06:09:16 <pravins> paragan: thank you for link
06:09:41 <juhp> anish_, I am not sure if those are the layouts we want to hide...
06:09:42 <mfabian> Vratislav writes: “we would need to keep the xkb layouts available and installed to the
06:09:42 <mfabian> installation images”
06:09:59 <mfabian> If we move the Indian layouts into /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.extras.xml
06:10:03 <mfabian> they are still available.
06:10:08 <juhp> right
06:10:20 <juhp> unless anaconda doesn't read that?
06:10:21 <mfabian> Only the Gnome control center will not show them anymore.
06:10:26 <juhp> okay
06:10:46 <pravins> mfabian: yes, in that case it will not affect anaconda.
06:10:50 <juhp> OT but I would also like to see improvements to anaconda layout chooser
06:11:01 <juhp> okay
06:11:09 <juhp> mfabian, good thanks
06:11:16 <pravins> #info If we move the Indian layouts into /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.extras.xml
06:11:26 <juhp> anish_, so how about contacting whot next?
06:11:39 <anish_> juhp, sure I will do that
06:11:43 <pravins> mfabian: will you reply to that thread?
06:11:45 <juhp> cool
06:12:03 <pravins> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/206011.html
06:13:54 <pravins> #action anish_ will contact to whot for blacklisting xkb indian layouts in gnome
06:14:05 <juhp> also gnome-initial-setup has regressed on Input Sources selection
06:14:48 <juhp> btw I think Indic is just the tip of the iceberg but it is hard to come up with a definite list of deprecated/obscure layouts
06:15:15 <juhp> definitive
06:15:22 <pravins> juhp: right, who can help into this?
06:15:27 <anish_> juhp, it would be easy if we have any kind of stats
06:15:35 <pravins> trans and devel list?
06:15:40 <juhp> not entirely sure
06:16:14 <juhp> I think long ago aday or gnome had a wiki page for gathering such input but not sure how far or comprehensive it got
06:16:26 <pravins> #info In long term we need to come up with definite list of deprecated/obscure layouts.
06:16:49 <juhp> pravins, maybe more fedora list than devel
06:17:22 <juhp> perhaps a wiki page listing all current layouts would be a start?
06:17:45 <pravins> juhp: agree !!
06:17:51 <juhp> as a table which could be commented on
06:18:33 <juhp> Peter might have some ideas too - it is not really a fedora specific issue
06:19:07 <anish_> juhp, i think GNOME wiki still has those
06:19:12 <paragan> juhp, all layouts include ibus engines also right?
06:19:34 <juhp> paragan, I mean xkb layouts really
06:19:35 <pravins> fujiwarat: hi
06:19:39 <fujiwarat> hi
06:20:09 <mfabian> juhp: I think that gnome page with the keyboard information was not updated much. It is hard to collect that information. I used that gnome page to help filling the default layouts for each language into langtable.
06:20:25 <juhp> mfabian, okay - also my feeling
06:20:31 <paragan> let me create a page on fedora wiki from our side
06:20:44 <paragan> will add xkb layouts information there
06:20:49 <juhp> paragan, great
06:20:50 <pravins> paragan: thanks, thats very helpful.
06:21:05 <mfabian> (But langtable only has a list of default layouts, not a complete list and no information about exotic and rarely used or obsolete layouts)
06:21:16 <juhp> mfabian, ok right
06:21:18 <pravins> #action paragan to create list of xkb layout available in Fedora.
06:21:43 <juhp> we could even filter the list or separate out the ones from langtable
06:22:01 <pravins> juhp: do you means by identifying deprecated xkb layout, blacklist them as well in F22?
06:22:42 <juhp> well ideally but not sure if there is enough time - mostly it is a question of upstreaming I feel
06:22:48 <pravins> sure.
06:23:04 <pravins> lets move ahead to next topic, will discuss more next time.
06:23:13 <pravins> #topic Outstanding task
06:23:13 <pravins> #info #35: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N cleanup (i18n@lists.fedoraproject.org)
06:23:13 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/35
06:23:39 <pravins> nothing much on this. I identified Lohit fonts pages available, will create other pages soon.
06:23:50 <pravins> http://piratepad.net/i18nchanges
06:24:52 <juhp> pravins, thanks
06:25:27 <pravins> juhp: regarding moving https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/IBus     to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/InputMethods i think its valid point and make more sense
06:26:50 <juhp> hmm I am having trouble connecting there...
06:27:10 <juhp> ah
06:27:46 <juhp> pravins, not sure about that
06:28:13 <juhp> I don't think we need to "debrand" ibus per se
06:28:25 <juhp> in this context
06:28:58 <pravins> juhp: you mean to just moving page? from /I18n/ to /i18n/InputMethods ?
06:29:15 <juhp> ah you mean to InputMethods/IBus
06:29:24 <pravins> yes.
06:29:31 <pravins> no clubbing both together.
06:30:20 <juhp> it could be done I suppose
06:30:54 <pravins> juhp: sure.
06:31:06 <juhp> an alternative occurred to me - to move IBus out of I18N/ - I dunno - not so strong feeling about it
06:31:23 <pravins> i have also sorted i18n people alphabetically before some time.
06:31:32 <juhp> maybe hence the '?'
06:31:43 <pravins> any more idea for improving https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N#People_.28Alphabetically.29  ?
06:32:34 <pravins> yeah, i think we can ignore also same. Might be just good to link Ibus on InputMethod page. That is more than sufficient.
06:32:40 <juhp> pravins, thanks - I thinking to move People to a separate page perhaps - though a lot of people there who are not active now
06:32:56 <juhp> pravins, ok
06:33:28 <pravins> #info will add Ibus page link to /i18n/InputMethod page.
06:33:45 <pravins> juhp: right, number of inactive members.
06:33:53 <juhp> perhaps the list could be split into active and former contributors perhaps?
06:34:07 <pravins> good idea
06:34:15 <juhp> I feel that is more meaningful
06:35:04 <juhp> we could even mention specific contributions in some cases
06:35:46 <pravins> umm, normally one mention most of things about him on his fedora user page.
06:36:08 <tagoh__> do we really need People page?
06:37:09 <pravins> tagoh__: at least no need presently.
06:37:40 <pravins> i feel, presently we will update at same place.
06:38:09 <pravins> Please check and update if you feel anything there.
06:39:25 <pravins> lets move ahead for next topic.
06:39:35 <pravins> #topic New topics
06:39:35 <pravins> #info #39: Bugs corner (pravins)
06:39:35 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/39
06:40:29 <pravins> just before some time i gone through an interesting message regarding EPEL5
06:40:33 <pravins> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fonts-bugs/2015-January/027474.html
06:40:39 <pravins> "Orphaned fontpackages RPM on EPEL 5 - workaround possible?"
06:41:07 <juhp> pravins, (that is true - I was more thinking for inactive former contributors)
06:42:04 <juhp> aha
06:42:31 <juhp> why was fedora-packager removed from epel5?
06:43:07 <juhp> well I can think of some potential reasons - just curious
06:43:31 * pravins clueless :(
06:44:31 <pravins> we need to check why its removed first. Might be some bugzilla around.
06:45:04 <juhp> anyway sounds good to have fontpackages back
06:45:18 <pravins> #action search why fedora-packager was removed from epel5
06:45:47 <juhp> actually don't even understand why drop fedora-packager  would remove fontpackages?
06:46:10 <pravins> juhp: we are using font_pkg macro now.
06:46:40 <pravins> aha, fedora-packager should not affect it.
06:47:15 <pravins> will discuss more about same in next meeting with more information :)
06:47:32 <juhp> nod
06:47:38 <juhp> ok
06:48:33 <pravins> #info #40: Fedora 22 planning (pravins)
06:48:33 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/40
06:48:44 <paragan> juhp, I think its because of GitPython got removed in EPEL5
06:49:14 <pravins> we have 3 self contained proposals in plan.
06:49:23 <pravins> 1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ibus_devanglish
06:50:00 <juhp> paragan, aha
06:51:15 <pravins> anish_: you need to add few fields there and move page to ChangeReadyForWrangler.
06:51:41 <anish_> I am changing my proposal a bit, instead of ibus input method
06:51:58 <anish_> i am doing it for m17n
06:52:14 <anish_> and only for Marathi language and naming it as Minglish
06:52:27 <pravins> Last updated: (DATE) ,      Proposal owners:  and also good to have  "User Experience" also there even though its self contained change.
06:52:39 <pravins> anish_: nice. yes good to start with minimal.
06:52:42 <anish_> yesterday i submitted patch for it in m17n upstream
06:53:07 <pravins> anish_: so planning to change name of proposal?
06:53:15 <anish_> yes
06:53:20 <pravins> sure.
06:53:34 <pravins> 2. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DnfLangpacksPlugin
06:54:02 <pravins> paragan: any update on same?
06:54:03 <paragan> I will update this in 2 days and move to ChangeReadyForWrangler
06:54:13 <paragan> this is not full plugin feature
06:54:15 <pravins> paragan: thats great !!
06:54:38 <paragan> as I think required dnf api will not be available in F22
06:55:21 <paragan> At least all the required CLI commands are working fine :)
06:55:50 <paragan> only automatic pickup of langpacks for new conditional package installation will not happen
06:56:21 <pravins> that is good start considering F22 has DNF as a default package manager change accepted http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReplaceYumWithDNF
06:56:35 <juhp> it would still be nice to work out how to inject langpacks into dnf transactions
06:57:03 <paragan> I will talk to dnf developers for this
06:57:27 <pravins> #info anish_ changing to self contained change name from devanglish to minglish (marathi).
06:57:39 <pravins> next one change proposal in mine.
06:58:01 <pravins> 3. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Lohit2_Odia_Telugu
06:58:41 <pravins> I think we will take more 15 minutes than schedule time today.
06:59:00 <pravins> i have already moved change proposal to Ready for Wrangler.
06:59:14 <pravins> mfabian: i was thinking for Unicode 7.0 update proposal.
06:59:25 <pravins> but when we say Unicode 7.0, scope is bit bigger.
06:59:44 <pravins> Glibc_Unicode_7_0 looks good i think
06:59:54 <pravins> at least for now.
07:01:13 <mfabian> Yes.
07:01:29 <pravins> will talk with siddhesh today and add him also in owner.
07:01:50 <pravins> #action pravins to talk with siddhesh regarding Glibc_Unicode_7_0 change proposal.
07:02:14 <pravins> anything else on Fedora 22 planning?
07:02:40 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ibus_devanglish
07:02:46 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DnfLangpacksPlugin
07:02:56 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Lohit2_Odia_Telugu
07:03:26 <pravins> lets move to next topic.
07:03:36 <pravins> #info #41: Need to check whether any F22 proposed change affect i18n (pravins)
07:03:36 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/41
07:03:57 <pravins> New system wide changes from out last meeting are as follows.
07:04:06 <pravins> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ReplaceYumWithDNF
07:04:40 <pravins> The one still not accepted but in "ready_for_fesco" and "announced" stage are
07:04:54 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg
07:05:08 <pravins> "Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper. "
07:05:53 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/wxPython3
07:06:04 <pravins> "Get wxPython 3 packaged and into Fedora. "
07:06:12 <pravins> #link  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GHC_7.8
07:06:26 <pravins> "Update the GHC Haskell compiler to the major new 7.8 release, and update/rebuild all Haskell packages against it. "
07:07:37 <pravins> should we tracj "Replace the current (low-level) input xorg drivers with libinput using the xorg-x11-drv-libinput wrapper." https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/LibinputForXorg ?
07:07:44 <pravins> s/track
07:08:31 * juhp opens
07:09:40 <juhp> not sure if there is much direct i18n impact?
07:10:05 <juhp> it sounds like a good change though
07:10:11 <pravins> yes.
07:10:19 <juhp> I believe Fesco is going to discuss it this week
07:10:44 <pravins> yes, it is presently in ReadyForFesco stage.
07:11:09 <pravins> right, all the api for us going to be same, so not direct impact.
07:11:49 <pravins> #info not direct impact of LibinputForXorg change on i18n
07:11:52 <pravins> #topic New task
07:11:52 <pravins> #info #42: Fedora 22 i18n test day (tagoh)
07:12:07 <pravins> thank you tagoh__ for creating ticket.
07:12:31 <pravins> Two question comes to my mind.
07:12:39 <pravins> 1. When we suppose to start cleaning up test cases and adding new test cases?
07:12:52 <tagoh__> not yet started to work on the migration though
07:12:53 <pravins> 2. when we will do test event?
07:14:29 <tagoh__> well, I don't even have a better answer for those questions but for 1, I'd say that would be good to do that sooner rather than later.
07:14:41 <pravins> tagoh__: +1
07:14:54 <juhp> yes
07:15:47 <anish_> tagoh__, can we automate few test cases so that after each release we can run them kind of sanity tests
07:16:01 <pravins> sure tagoh__  once you done migration, will start working on same.
07:16:08 <pravins> anish_: nice idea.
07:18:54 <pravins> ideally we should have some automated test case. But for what things that is question :)
07:18:56 <tagoh__> sure. dunno if QE has any plans for that. to make more effective, we could polish the list of the test cases which isn't possible to be automated perhaps.
07:19:24 <tagoh__> good to discuss it including that point maybe.
07:19:28 <pravins> anish_: thanks for raising this point, we will debate more on it in upcoming meeting.
07:19:37 <pravins> tagoh__: yes.
07:19:47 <pravins> will move to our last topic.
07:19:50 <pravins> #topic Open Floor
07:21:06 <pravins> will wait for 2 minutes and close the meeting.
07:23:33 <pravins> #endmeeting