14:03:47 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:03:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar  2 14:03:47 2015 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:03:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:03:47 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:03:47 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:03:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:03:55 * pbokoc 
14:04:02 <pkovar> /me is here
14:04:06 * lnovich is here
14:05:46 <randomuser> #chair pkovar
14:05:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: pkovar randomuser
14:06:01 <randomuser> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
14:06:20 <randomuser> Action items were all about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Focus
14:06:40 <randomuser> We should continue to contribute our ideas to this page
14:06:54 <pkovar> i updated the env-stack section with personas
14:06:56 <pkovar> will add more
14:07:13 <pkovar> more as in a general intro to env-stack focus
14:07:18 <randomuser> I didn't do server, got engaged in something else, but I'll come back to it
14:07:41 * smccann strolls in embarrassingly alte
14:08:18 <randomuser> welcome
14:08:34 <grundblom> Morning all,
14:08:47 <randomuser> lnovich, you were down for general use case descriptions?
14:09:30 <lnovich> and I shall get to them today
14:09:38 <randomuser> excellent
14:09:50 <randomuser> #topic New Writer Check-in
14:10:04 <randomuser> grundblom, smccann how is your experience going so far?
14:10:08 <lnovich> i have a new writer who was here but seems to have left
14:10:55 <smccann> I've got the files I need etc. I didnt' get the emacs docbooks extensions working yet, but I can still copy content in etc.
14:11:46 <randomuser> cool.  Have you found the information and help you need? Any suggestions on improving things for the next new contributor?
14:12:21 <smccann> I was confused on whether I could use https: to clone vs git or ssh. and whether I needed to be in doc-writers to get the job done etc
14:12:31 * randomuser nods
14:12:41 <grundblom> Going well, I am enjoying it. The community has been really helpful in teaching me and I feel like the work I am doing will be valuable to the group when finished.
14:13:10 <smccann> i think one of the doc process wiki pages made it sound like I needed that. So that'd be a place to put a note or something to say what the general doc contributor can do
14:13:23 <randomuser> smccann, I think I'll write/rewrite a portion of the documentation guide to address that
14:13:46 <smccann> kewl, thanks
14:13:56 <randomuser> #info randomuser to improve new contributor guide patch process in documentation guide
14:14:00 <randomuser> #undo
14:14:00 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by randomuser at 14:13:56 : randomuser to improve new contributor guide patch process in documentation guide
14:14:07 <randomuser> #action randomuser to improve new contributor guide patch process in documentation guide
14:14:48 <randomuser> well, we're glad to have you both on board
14:15:01 <randomuser> #topic Publishing
14:15:20 <randomuser> I spent the weekend working on a buildbot configuration
14:16:23 <randomuser> as of now, it builds defined branches of all of our guides when there are new commits and copies the content to a central place using a predictable directory heirarchy
14:17:03 <randomuser> processing of translations has been started
14:17:46 <randomuser> the setup is fairly modular, so it should be possible to create builders for other formats; the interesting part will still be frontend construction
14:18:41 <pkovar> so is it based on jenkins or a similar platform?
14:18:42 <randomuser> I'll share the thing after I've sanitized out all the hard coded credentials :)
14:19:46 <randomuser> pkovar, besides infra's lack of enthusiasm about jenkins, it seems like extensibility would require a fair amount of java expertise
14:20:12 <randomuser> so I've started with buildbot; the configs are python, and I have at least rudimentary python skills
14:20:25 <pkovar> randomuser: ok, i see
14:21:00 <randomuser> tflink has been working on taskotron for Fedora packages, which is also buildbot-based, so there's already some buy-in for it
14:21:24 <randomuser> maybe even the potential to use taskotron, or at least share ideas
14:21:41 <pkovar> randomuser: how does putting all the index pages together work like with buildbot?
14:22:16 <randomuser> pkovar, I suspect I'm doing it crudely at this point, so bear with me, but it's working like this:
14:22:46 <randomuser> each guide has a builder that goes through defined steps, pull new sources, publican build, copy files
14:23:05 <randomuser> it's triggered by a scheduler that checks the repo for new revisions
14:23:22 <randomuser> (there could also be builders for $format with a different build invocation)
14:23:40 <pkovar> ok, that sounds good
14:24:18 <randomuser> these builders could then trigger another builder that does copy built files, assemble index pages, copy files
14:25:40 <pkovar> right, i am not quite sure how to approach that index page generation, but maybe it's not as hard as i think...
14:25:43 <randomuser> and there's a timeout window, so that it doesn't do a lot of extra work; a build won't kick off until five minutes or so of stability; then the index builder wouldn't kick off until there's been stability in it's triggers
14:26:02 <pkovar> ok
14:26:35 <pkovar> randomuser:  and you say the builder would also assemble translated index pages?
14:26:46 <randomuser> i'm not sure either. I have some ideas; walking over the directory and parsing yaml definitions for each resource is one
14:26:53 <pkovar> each time a build is triggered based on git commits, i guess?
14:27:32 <randomuser> pkovar, at this point, I'm aiming for this:  the aforementioned builders would push POTs to zanata if they are successful
14:28:06 <randomuser> then there are other builders that pull a given language from zanata, test a build, and merge in the translations if the build succeeds
14:28:44 <randomuser> that would then trigger a rebuild of that document, which would trigger the index builder
14:28:47 <pkovar> ok, that work flow would be quite similar to what gnome does, actually
14:29:10 <pkovar> continuous integration, basically
14:29:10 <randomuser> it would be periodic/nightly; afaik there's no signal out of zanata ie rss feeds
14:30:11 <pkovar> do you know if any other project does this with zanata?
14:30:31 <randomuser> i'm hoping the fedora apps folks will have some ideas about creating the index pages, mine might not be that good :P
14:31:10 <pkovar> i think there shouldn't be a problem having this automated, though
14:31:25 <randomuser> pkovar, I don't know of other projects doing this, but I haven't looked for them.  I have a suspicion that some RH projects might be, but they're using jenkins with some bespoke java-foo
14:32:50 <randomuser> we could trigger much of this from fedmsg - I think most of that work has been done for taskotron - but it doesn't take a lot of cycles to just get the head hash every few minutes
14:33:36 <pkovar> randomuser: time to start another ml thread about publishing platform, perhaps? :)
14:33:52 <pkovar> randomuser: thanks a lot for working on this
14:34:09 <pkovar> it looks like we are moving somewhere, which is what we need :)
14:34:18 <randomuser> pkovar, I'll sanitize my configs and try to make them more portable soon so you can look at it; I don't want to put a decision in front of the group until there's at least something in that missing piece, though
14:34:42 <pkovar> pkovar: ok; makes sense
14:34:54 <pkovar> i mean randomuser :)
14:34:59 <randomuser> there's just not a lot to discuss unless people want to participate
14:35:28 <pkovar> randomuser: i'll be happy to help with that zanata part
14:35:48 <randomuser> oh, one thing though
14:35:57 <pkovar> i don't know much about builbot, though
14:36:01 <randomuser> this requires a few changes in our guide repos:
14:36:18 <randomuser> predictable release branch naming, ie f19, f20, f21 and so on
14:36:46 <randomuser> a zanata.xml for the correct release in every branch we want translated
14:37:11 <randomuser> and, a release set up in zanata for every branch of every guide we want translated
14:37:18 <pkovar> as for branch naming, i think that's doable unless we want to maintain a separate config file with branch names or something
14:37:19 <randomuser> ... all of which we would have had to do anyway
14:37:58 <pkovar> right, that's what zanata requires us to do
14:38:22 <randomuser> yeah, we can do that; it makes builder generation more complex, but it's not a big deal
14:39:05 <randomuser> pkovar, since you're a maintainer on all of the guides, if you have them all cloned...
14:39:15 <randomuser> a zanata maintainer, I should say...
14:39:18 <pkovar> hehe, i don!t but go ahead
14:39:46 <randomuser> someone is going to have to create the releases and add the xml configs
14:40:14 <pkovar> that's just a temporary thing, still waiting for more maintainers to set up their account in zanata, btw
14:40:18 <randomuser> ack
14:40:23 <pkovar> randomuser: but yeah, i can help with that
14:40:38 <pkovar> at least for the "core guides" we have
14:40:41 <randomuser> there's a fairly comprehensive zanata.xml in the release notes, with only a few language mappings missing
14:40:56 <pkovar> good
14:41:05 <randomuser> after the rest of those mappings are added, we should put it somewhere for wide use
14:41:40 <pkovar> somewhere in our guidelines you mean?
14:41:40 <randomuser> anyway, let's talk about this in -docs sometime, pkovar
14:41:46 <pkovar> randomuser: sure
14:42:06 <randomuser> guidelines, wiki page, etc; in place of the tx lang map thing we have now
14:42:12 <randomuser> #topic Release Notes
14:42:17 <pkovar> randomuser: right
14:42:22 <randomuser> #info Beat writers needed!
14:42:35 <randomuser> https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-22/f-22-docs-tasks.html
14:43:00 <randomuser> afaik, we've had exactly two edits to beats pages so far in this cycle, and covered perhaps three packages
14:43:38 <randomuser> #action randomuser to write beat writer invitation to fedora join list
14:43:54 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats?rd=Docs/Beats
14:44:15 <randomuser> any questions on Release Notes, before we move on?
14:44:53 <grundblom> how is release notes different then a beat?
14:45:04 <grundblom> or are they the same thing?
14:45:23 <randomuser> grundblom, beats are a subset of the release notes
14:46:11 <randomuser> it's a term borrowed from journalism
14:46:54 <randomuser> one beat per roughly defined topic, all the beats are the release notes
14:47:12 <grundblom> Ah, I see, got it
14:48:09 <randomuser> I think I'll skip over the focus stuff for now, since bexelbie isn't here and there weren't more responses to his thread
14:48:18 <randomuser> .... please read and respond to that thread
14:48:25 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:48:42 <randomuser> where are we with guides, what guides need what help?
14:49:06 <pbokoc> everything needs everything :)
14:49:21 <randomuser> heh
14:50:06 <pkovar> randomuser: one thing about focus: i am going to move some of the focus stuff from the thread to our focus wiki page; i think we need some sort of a summary too
14:50:19 <pkovar> before we move on to discuss other things
14:51:39 <randomuser> pkovar, thanks!
14:52:00 <randomuser> that's going to help assemble our thoughts, a lot
14:52:11 <pkovar> yeah, i hope so
14:52:52 <pkovar> but as you said, we also need more responses to that thread
14:53:46 <randomuser> I also think we should collect info from other Fedora contributors, ie "What can we do to get you writing"
14:54:13 <pkovar> randomuser: oh, i collected some of these in flock last year
14:54:18 <randomuser> but that's probably either a 1-on-1 thing or something that needs more discussion than we have time for today
14:54:20 <pkovar> i will add them
14:54:23 <randomuser> nice
14:54:49 <pkovar> randomuser: conferences are great for these conversations
14:55:15 <randomuser> I had conversations like that at the previous flock, mostly around aligning the docs with the user base
14:55:40 <randomuser> #topic Focus
14:55:55 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Focus
14:56:16 <randomuser> #action pkovar to update page with info from mailing list thread, conference conversations
14:56:46 <randomuser> for the minutes :)
14:57:02 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor
14:57:33 <randomuser> publican is FTBFS in F22 and F23, FYI
14:58:08 <randomuser> I spoke with Jeff about it yesterday, he suspects a libxml2 bug or feature improvement
14:58:37 <randomuser> I can't build the installation guide on F22, for example, because it thinks there are duplicate IDs for the preface
14:58:44 <pkovar> hmm, that's unfortunate
14:59:44 <randomuser> luckily, I have this buildsystem to test my work with...
15:00:01 <pkovar> cool :)
15:00:23 <randomuser> alright, time's up, thanks to all for attending
15:00:27 <randomuser> #endmeeting