14:08:08 <pbokoc> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:08:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar  9 14:08:08 2015 UTC.  The chair is pbokoc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:08:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:08:17 <pkovar> cool, thanks pbokoc
14:08:17 <pbokoc> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:08:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:08:23 <pbokoc> #chair pkovar
14:08:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: pbokoc pkovar
14:08:26 <bexelbie> pkovar, https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
14:08:37 <bexelbie> linked to from f.o :P
14:08:39 <pbokoc> np
14:09:04 <pbokoc> btw you can find everything if you grab the full log from any meeting - it leaves the commands in
14:09:11 <pbokoc> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2015-02-23/fedora_docs.2015-02-23-14.01.log.html
14:09:18 <pbokoc> #topic Roll Call
14:09:28 <pkovar> pbokoc: ah, good to know
14:09:45 * bexelbie is here
14:09:48 * rkratky here
14:10:01 <pbokoc> Brno is strong today
14:10:18 * smccann is here
14:11:34 <pkovar> #topic New Writers
14:12:05 <pkovar> any newcomers around?
14:12:20 <lnovich> no but I am here
14:12:28 * lnovich is here
14:12:32 <pkovar> welcome, lnovich
14:12:52 <smccann> relatively new, and working on the virtualization guide
14:13:17 <lnovich> let me know if you have any questions / issues smccann
14:13:57 <smccann> not yet but probably will within a week
14:14:42 <pkovar> smccann: how was your getting started experience so far?
14:14:58 <lnovich> #info - you can find me on wednesdays where I have office hours
14:16:05 <pkovar> #chair lnovich
14:16:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: lnovich pbokoc pkovar
14:16:20 <pkovar> lnovich: now it should work
14:16:41 <lnovich> #info - you can find me on wednesdays where I have office hours
14:17:19 <smccann> lnovich - so far my only confusion was whether I needed to use ssh to clone/branch the repository and if I needed to be in the doc-writers group
14:18:01 <bexelbie> smccann, did we get your ansewrs to those questions documented?
14:19:02 <smccann> erm.. I think randomuser took note last week that I stumbled there, but dunno if it was officially documented
14:20:37 <lnovich> TBH smccann I made my branches  so long ago, I forgot how they were done
14:20:37 <pkovar> smccann: did you find it easy to write docs with the docbook/publican combo?
14:21:08 <smccann> easy is such a relative term, pkovar :-)
14:21:23 <pkovar> smccann: relatively easy, then :)
14:21:39 <smccann> I'm experienced with  a  couple of other xml authoring environments so it was relatively smooth so far
14:21:56 <pkovar> ok
14:22:04 <smccann> AND I'm stealing content from the older virt. admin guide.. .(aka already written in docbook)
14:22:27 <pkovar> ah, i see :)
14:22:39 <lnovich> the virt deployment and admin guide is the most current version - it is in draft form
14:22:44 <smccann> I'd say it doesn't seem conducive to the average jo to do a drive-by edit.
14:22:51 <lnovich> and should be taken out of draft form
14:23:41 <smccann> lnovich - I looked at a fedora 19 version of that guide... is that the latest?  And how much of that do we need to carry forward?
14:23:56 <lnovich> it is all in docbook - but just needs to be taken out of draft state and brought forward
14:24:08 <smccann> I'm working on the getting started book now, so just bringing in the useful procedures for getting a VM up with virt-manager
14:24:23 <pkovar> lnovich: this is the draft, i guess? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/Virtualization_Deployment_and_Administration_Guide/index.html
14:24:31 <lnovich> yes
14:24:38 <pkovar> smccann: ^
14:24:51 <lnovich> but it has been ready for a while to come out of draft state
14:25:11 <lnovich> i couldn't get it to work (don't remember why) at the time
14:25:12 <smccann> it's got a few references still to redhat fwiw.
14:25:28 <lnovich> it needs some editing and revising
14:26:36 <lnovich> the conversion was not done very smoothly, so it needs some help
14:27:05 <smccann> k
14:27:19 <randomuser> I can't get my laptop to keep a connection up now, so I'm here via phone  :/
14:27:27 <pkovar> lnovich: the draft seems to be from 2013, so it probably needs more updates?
14:27:35 <pkovar> for f21 i mean
14:27:44 <lnovich> and then to go from there to where we are now - for the getting started not much needs to be done
14:28:01 <lnovich> but the admin parts of the guide need to be updated with the new features
14:28:50 <lnovich> the only thing that changed since F19 and now on the install are the package names and the GUI for virt manager
14:28:57 <smccann> getting started was were grundblom and I were...getting started :-)  Adding procedures for virt-manager (me) and boxes (grundblom)
14:29:27 <lnovich> boxes doesn't have too much there as when we worked on it there wasn't much available
14:29:33 <randomuser> the getting started guide can be very simple IMO
14:29:47 <lnovich> can and should
14:30:16 <smccann> yep
14:30:18 <lnovich> BUT - what this will depend on is 1 - how our users do their installations?
14:30:32 <lnovich> how many use PXE ? CD? etc?
14:30:54 <lnovich> and choose 1-2 methods and forget the rest
14:30:58 <randomuser> I think the install guide covers that, no?
14:31:25 <lnovich> instaling the VM and installing the OS are a bit different
14:32:23 <lnovich> i am also not sure at this point how much of the theoretical info needs to be carried from version to version
14:32:36 <lnovich> as most people at this point know the terminology
14:32:49 <lnovich> but we can talk about this at another time
14:32:52 <bexelbie> but we should always somehow account for new users ...
14:33:08 <randomuser> I've always done it the same way, once you get past inserting the media and such.  anaconda doesn't care if it's in a vm
14:34:16 <lnovich> ok i have taken too much time today - bottomline smccann - tell me your thoughts and I can help  you out
14:34:59 <smccann> ok
14:35:13 <lnovich> smccann: we can talk on Wed if you are free
14:35:52 <smccann> sounds good - what time/timezone?
14:37:24 <lnovich> Im in Israel here it is 1630
14:38:13 <lnovich> I'll be online at this time on wed
14:38:14 <randomuser> the fedocal appt is still on Sunday, lnovich, FYI
14:38:44 <lnovich> I changed it  - guess I didn't update the calendar
14:39:01 <lnovich> someone asked me to be available during the week
14:41:59 <randomuser> pbokoc, maybe time to move on to the next topic?
14:42:13 <pkovar> #topic Publishing
14:42:48 <pkovar> bexelbie: you have some thoughts to share?
14:44:19 <bexelbie> I have finally gotten through a major project at work, so I hope to have something to share during this week
14:44:28 <pkovar> sounds goof
14:44:30 <bexelbie> I will be updating the wiki page to add some more ideas around tooling/workflow
14:44:34 <pkovar> good i mean, sorry
14:45:09 <pkovar> i updated the docs focus page with more details
14:45:33 <pkovar> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Focus
14:45:47 <randomuser> I sent a mail, https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/outreach/2015-March/000036.html , because I found the personas thing to be very helpful
14:45:49 <pkovar> comments, edits, etc. welcome
14:46:22 <randomuser> there was less of a response than I expected
14:47:20 <pkovar> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Focus
14:47:36 <pkovar> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/outreach/2015-March/000036.html
14:48:02 <bexelbie> randomuser, it was not ignored deliberately :)
14:48:07 * bexelbie was super-busy
14:48:20 <randomuser> :)
14:48:40 <randomuser> I'm glad you are subscribed there, bexelbie
14:50:14 <lnovich> personas are a wonderful way to make documentation have a clear focus
14:50:42 <lnovich> i put in some updates on the general section
14:50:58 * randomuser notes 10 minutes remaining
14:51:49 <randomuser> Did I share a link to progit last week?
14:52:52 <randomuser> http://209.132.184.222/
14:53:01 <randomuser> I'm excited about that
14:53:42 <pbokoc> ooooooh
14:53:43 <bexelbie> can you give the 30 second summary randomuser ?
14:53:46 <pkovar> randomuser: do you know gitlab? it seems to be quite similar to what progit does, actually
14:54:20 <bexelbie> pkovar, ok, so I didn’t misread it as a github-like app
14:54:30 <randomuser> pkovar, iirc gitlab packaging is 5 years in progress and running, java bundling hell
14:55:13 <randomuser> yeah, that's the idea
14:55:44 <randomuser> so fedoraosted stuff can have a competitive interface, familiar PR workflow, etc that's actually open
14:56:48 <pkovar> randomuser: are you thinking about setting up a docs instance?
14:56:51 <lnovich> when will this change take place?
14:57:20 <randomuser> progit is still at proof-of-concept stage, don't get worked up about it yet
14:57:51 <randomuser> I intend to pick one of my guides or something like tools.git for it, to help with progit's testing
14:57:52 <pkovar> i see it's home brewed in fedora
14:58:24 <lnovich> makes sense randomuser
14:58:26 <randomuser> pkovar, yeah, if we want to complain, pingou is right here :)
14:58:36 <pkovar> randomuser: sounds like a good idea, yes
14:59:04 <pkovar> randomuser: right, that's good, too  :)
14:59:28 <randomuser> maybe the release notes, now that I think about it, since that would get some use right away
15:01:28 <pbokoc> we're running out of time, so I'm gonna end this and we can continue next door if we need to
15:01:37 <pbokoc> #endmeeting