21:00:05 <sesivany> #startmeeting EMEA ambassadors 2015-03-18
21:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 18 21:00:05 2015 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:00:08 <sesivany> #meetingname emea ambassadors
21:00:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'emea_ambassadors'
21:00:12 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
21:00:18 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
21:00:20 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
21:00:21 <giannisk> .fas giannisk
21:00:22 <zodbot> giannisk: giannisk 'Giannis Konstantinidis' <giannis@konstantinidis.cc>
21:00:38 <lupinix> .fas lupinix
21:00:39 <zodbot> lupinix: lupinix 'Christian Dersch' <lupinix@mailbox.org>
21:01:27 <Mohamed_Fawzy> .fas mohamedfawzy
21:01:27 <zodbot> Mohamed_Fawzy: mohamedfawzy 'Mohamed Fawzy' <medoelmasry142@gmail.com>
21:01:55 <FedoraUser> .hello fedorauser
21:01:56 <zodbot> FedoraUser: fedorauser 'Medic Momcilo' <medicmomcilo@gmail.com>
21:02:28 <sesivany> hi everyone, let's wait a couple more minutes for others to show up...
21:03:00 <der-flo> .hello flo
21:03:01 <zodbot> der-flo: flo 'None' <dev@der-flo.net>
21:03:02 <Levex> .fas Levex
21:03:04 <zodbot> Levex: levex 'Levente Kurusa' <levex@linux.com>
21:04:11 <rsc> robert (Robert Scheck)
21:04:15 <b10n1k> .fas b10n1k
21:04:17 <zodbot> b10n1k: b10n1k 'jiannis Bonatakis' <jbonatakis@gmail.com> - jobo 'jiannis bonatakis' <california17@gmail.com>
21:04:33 <sesivany> ok, let's start...
21:04:39 <sesivany> #topic Announcements
21:04:48 <sesivany> any announcements?
21:05:56 <sesivany> I've got one.
21:06:22 <sesivany> Fedora 22 Alpha was released last week in case you didn't notice :)
21:06:40 * lupinix already installed it
21:06:48 <sesivany> #info Fedora 22 Alpha was released last week.
21:06:57 <sesivany> lupinix: I'm also already running on F22.
21:06:59 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i noticed that but not installed yet
21:07:10 <andreasch> .fas andreasch
21:07:11 <zodbot> andreasch: andreasch 'Andreas Christoforou' <aceoscy@gmail.com>
21:07:21 <sesivany> #link http://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-22-alpha-released/
21:07:23 <b10n1k> me too. there are some testing days have been arranged already
21:07:41 <edgates> .fas edgates
21:07:42 <zodbot> edgates: edgates 'Elijah Hanson' <pkwesihanson@yahoo.com>
21:08:12 <sesivany> b10n1k: thanks for bringing it up.
21:08:21 <sesivany> there are test days scheduled.
21:08:27 <sesivany> #link http://fedoramagazine.org/your-chance-to-contribute-in-fedora-22-development-cycle-through-test-days/
21:08:50 <sesivany> you should promote this as a good opportunity for users to contribute to Fedora.
21:09:11 <sesivany> and you can also participate yourself ;)
21:09:41 <sesivany> #info F22 test days are scheduled, promote them in your local communities.
21:10:03 <sesivany> And Fedora Magazine has a new look.
21:10:30 <sesivany> #info Fedora Magazine has a new look - http://www.fedoramagazine.org
21:10:49 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i saw that it is nice
21:11:06 <sesivany> and it's small screen friendly.
21:11:09 <edgates> Looks good
21:11:10 <mitzie> Sorry I'm late
21:11:13 <sesivany> great on mobile phones.
21:11:14 <mitzie> .fas mitzie
21:11:14 <b10n1k> looks nice
21:11:14 <zodbot> mitzie: mitzie 'Zacharias Mitzelos' <mitzie@mitzelos.com>
21:11:56 <sesivany> any other announcements?
21:12:18 <sesivany> if not, let's move on to the next topic.
21:12:35 <sesivany> #topic Requests
21:12:35 <Mohamed_Fawzy> about a event ??
21:12:52 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: there will be a topic about events later.
21:13:02 <Mohamed_Fawzy> OK
21:13:48 * sesivany is checking the list of tickets...
21:14:00 <sesivany> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/report/1?page=1&sort=ticket&asc=1
21:15:09 <sesivany> so if I read it correctly, there is only one ticket to be approved, right?
21:15:20 <giannisk> sesivany: two?
21:15:29 <sesivany> #info #467 - Funding for OSCAL 2015
21:15:48 <giannisk> sesivany: also #466
21:15:52 <lupinix> and 466
21:16:01 <Mohamed_Fawzy> what about 464
21:16:02 <sesivany> giannisk: ok, let's finish 467 first.
21:16:15 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: one after another, I will remember it.
21:16:27 <sesivany> so #467...
21:16:27 <Mohamed_Fawzy> OKa
21:16:34 <taquilla> hi all
21:16:46 <sesivany> giannisk is asking for €380 to go to OSCAL.
21:16:52 <giannisk> !
21:17:02 <sesivany> giannisk: yes?
21:17:14 <giannisk> so, basically, a few words about the event
21:17:33 <giannisk> i've been invited again to speak at OSCAL
21:17:41 <giannisk> which is the biggest foss conference in Albania
21:18:09 <giannisk> i will also be joined by Ardian Haxha from Kosovo
21:18:41 <giannisk> and together with Jona, the new local Fedora contributor we're going to do a lot of fedora-related activities
21:18:55 <giannisk> we have a wiki page for the event:
21:18:58 <giannisk> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OSCAL_2015
21:19:09 <sesivany> looks great
21:19:12 <lupinix> already read it, sounds nice giannisk
21:19:26 <giannisk> as you may notice at the budget request, this is for the whole event expenses
21:19:33 <giannisk> not just for my travel expenses
21:20:00 <sesivany> to me, it's worthwhile spent €380 and it's also planned in our budget for this year, so from me it's +1
21:20:04 <cmpahar> .fas cmpahar
21:20:05 <zodbot> cmpahar: cmpahar 'Christos Bacharakis' <cmpahar@gmail.com>
21:20:20 * cmpahar running late
21:20:22 <Levex> +1 awesome that we are expanding :)
21:20:23 <sesivany> what about others?
21:20:28 <lupinix> +1 from me too and thanks to giannisk for his work
21:20:33 <giannisk> and i think we had a nice idea of producing a fedora banner locally in Albania, which will later be donated to the new Albanian commununity
21:20:36 <Mohamed_Fawzy> +1
21:20:41 <mitzie> +1
21:20:46 <FedoraUser> +1
21:20:48 <edgates> +1
21:20:54 <b10n1k> +1
21:20:57 <cmpahar> +1
21:21:10 <der-flo> +1
21:21:24 <sesivany> giannisk: yes, that's a better idea because sometimes shipping is more expensive than producing a new one and it can always be reused locally.
21:21:30 <sesivany> ok, approved.
21:21:38 <giannisk> thank you people, I will keep you posted about our efforts to expand the community in Albania :)
21:21:49 <sesivany> #agreed The ticket #467 has been approved.
21:22:03 <sesivany> ok, #466... let me check it...
21:22:46 <sesivany> #info Funding request for Robert Scheck for CLT 2015
21:22:55 <sesivany> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/466
21:23:37 <sesivany> it should be well within the event budget and robert is a long-time ambassador and mentor, so I don't have a problem with it.
21:23:57 <lupinix> +1
21:23:59 <sesivany> +1
21:24:01 <Mohamed_Fawzy> +1
21:24:02 <giannisk> Robert is a Fedora veteran, so I think his presence would be really important and worth at the event :)
21:24:02 <der-flo> +1
21:24:07 <giannisk> +1, of course
21:24:08 <FedoraUser> +1
21:24:21 <sesivany> FYI our budget for this year is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EMEA/Budget:2016
21:24:33 <mrunge> hey, I'm +1 as well, if that really counts :)
21:24:53 <sesivany> are you an ambassador? then yes :)
21:24:59 <edgates> +1
21:25:06 <andreasch> +1
21:25:08 <Levex> +1
21:25:09 <b10n1k> +1
21:25:11 <mrunge> I am, so: yes :D
21:25:20 <sesivany> #agreed The ticket #466 has been approved.
21:26:25 <sesivany> #info Funding request for shipping Mohamed Fawzy Ambassador t-shirt
21:27:24 <giannisk> sesivany: This went for voting in the last meeting, though unfortunately it didn't meet some criteria
21:27:25 <sesivany> it's a small amount, $41.
21:27:27 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i recieved my ambassdor t shirt after 3 month by fedex it cost me much to pay for ship
21:27:55 <sesivany> giannisk: do we have them somewhere on wiki?
21:28:35 <giannisk> sesivany: as per the EMEA reimbursement guidelines, people shouldn't spent money before a request is approved
21:28:45 <giannisk> sesivany: this is excact the opposite case
21:28:49 <lupinix> +1 as an ambassador should have a shirt (=> later i have to request one before froscon or so too :D)
21:29:18 <giannisk> sesivany: also, I was not sure if we can cover custom expenses for a polo shirt, it isn't documented anywhere
21:29:27 <Mohamed_Fawzy> giannisk: how can i know shipping cost before pay it ?
21:29:32 <giannisk> if we can do so however, it'd be a +1 from me
21:29:35 <Levex> why is this a custom expense? it's shipping :)
21:29:40 <Levex> I'm +1 on this one
21:29:51 <sesivany> giannisk: yeah, but we make exceptions sometimes.
21:30:29 <sesivany> giannisk: if you have an item at customs which is pending and you don't know how much it is until you go there and pay it, it's difficult to ask for it in advance.
21:30:35 <rsc> +1 as it hopefully is small enough to not hurt our budget even it doesn't fit the guidelines perfectly.
21:30:50 <sesivany> I mean it's a small amount, so I don't have a problem to make an exception.
21:30:55 <giannisk> sesivany: I see.
21:31:16 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: but do you have a PayPal account? That's the only way we can get money to you.
21:31:20 <edgates> +1 exception to rule.
21:31:22 <giannisk> based on this, I'd like to propose we could extend our reimbursement guidelines, to avoid similar occasions in the future
21:31:35 <giannisk> and to make things more clear
21:31:36 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i have master card thomas cook
21:31:59 <sesivany> of course the bigger the amount is the more strict we should be.
21:32:29 <sesivany> if someone comes and says he already spent $1000 and wants to be reimbursed, then it's no no.
21:32:45 <sesivany> +1
21:32:52 <Mohamed_Fawzy> is this problem will be every time i request event swag ?
21:33:12 <sesivany> it's 5 +1's.
21:33:25 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: people outside EU has such problems unfortunately.
21:33:31 <Levex> I believe shipping should be paid by the sender, especially in the case of ambassador shirts. As we are expanding outside Europe, I'm sure we will encounter similar problems with local post offices.
21:33:51 <Mohamed_Fawzy> can it be pre-paid ??
21:34:00 <Mohamed_Fawzy> it will be more easier
21:34:06 <sesivany> Levex: I think he paid customs and fees around it.
21:34:19 <sesivany> Levex: that's something we cannot pay as a sender.
21:34:41 <Levex> sesivany, yes I know, that's why I'd propose an expection to the "ticket first" rule
21:34:48 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i think it is possible for egypt
21:34:49 <Levex> shipping and customs outside the EU are a nightmare as it seems
21:35:32 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: anyway, you will need to have a PayPal account to get the money, that's the only way we can reimburse people.
21:35:37 <Levex> and we are in the process of expanding more and more, so eventually we will have more tickets like this
21:35:53 <Mohamed_Fawzy> paypal dont work here
21:35:56 <rsc> On the long term it might make sense if Africa produces ambassador polos regionally, I think.
21:36:03 <sesivany> #agreed the ticket #464 has been approved.
21:36:40 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: I will assign the ticket to jsimon and you will have to figure it out with him. I'm not in charge of reimbursing people.
21:36:46 <Levex> I'm not familiar with Africa, but I believe they would have the same problems, if not worse...
21:37:03 <Mohamed_Fawzy> ok thanks all
21:37:19 <sesivany> Levex: yes, pretty much every time we ship to Middle East or Africa we have these problems.
21:38:05 <sesivany> Levex: many times customs officers are very corrupt and ask for ridiculous prices, more than the actual cost of the content.
21:38:18 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i have ticket will be recieved soon so we may repeat this talk next meeting
21:38:27 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i hate being here
21:38:45 <sesivany> Levex: we have had many returned or lost packages unfortunately, but we just can't give up ambassadors outside Europe.
21:38:59 <edgates> You'll be lucky to find the content inside, either tampered or stolen.
21:39:19 <rsc> sesivany: is there a Red Hat office somewhere in Africa?
21:39:28 <Levex> sesivany, I didn't say that we should give them up :) I meant that we could have some reimbursement expection ready for these cases
21:39:46 <sesivany> rsc: I'm not aware of any.
21:40:26 <edgates> rsc, there's one in South Africa
21:41:09 <rsc> edgates, sesivany: Can we somehow figure out if africa-internal shippings are easier than from Europe? Do they have some kind of "union" as well?
21:41:14 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: Diaa Radwan, a long time Egyptian ambassador and Red Hat employee, travels to our office quite often. You can contact him if he can help you with getting swag to Egypt.
21:41:15 <Mohamed_Fawzy> Dubai is near to africa
21:41:57 <Mohamed_Fawzy> sesivany: he is my friend but it is still online friendship
21:42:11 <sesivany> rsc: we explored this idea and and shipping stuff from one country to another in Africa is the same nightmare as shipping it from Europe, even worse.
21:42:14 <Mohamed_Fawzy> it will be very easy to get them
21:42:51 <rsc> sesivany: ah :(
21:42:56 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: if Diaa comes to our office, I can give him swag for you for the whole year, no problem. And we would save all those problems.
21:43:18 <Mohamed_Fawzy> sesivany: it will be the best choice
21:43:41 <Levex> FedEx isn't good in Africa either?
21:43:51 <Mohamed_Fawzy> we use it
21:43:58 <sesivany> rsc: Primary services of Fedex or DHL work very well, they're fast and they sometimes can get through customs without paying any fees.
21:44:13 <sesivany> but the problem is that they're ridiculously expensive.
21:44:17 <edgates> FedEx is good. DHL as well.
21:44:36 <Mohamed_Fawzy> sesivany: please try that with my next ticket
21:44:41 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i need it fast
21:44:44 <Levex> sesivany, at least the package isn't sacked..
21:45:09 <sesivany> two years ago, we paid $1500 (!) to get a 10-kg package to Jordan with DHL :-(
21:45:22 <lupinix> oO
21:45:26 <sesivany> we just cannot afford it.
21:45:26 <rsc> Wow!
21:45:39 <rsc> sesivany: do we have experience with UPS, too?
21:45:45 <Mohamed_Fawzy> today we pay 41$ to get just tshirt with fedex to egypt
21:45:52 <sesivany> that's why I use the normal mail as default.
21:45:53 <edgates> Getting packages via a corporate mailbox is better since the company bears the cost.
21:46:15 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: I'm pretty sure we paid more, you paid only for customs, not for shipping.
21:46:21 <Mohamed_Fawzy> edgates: here mailbox is the most bad forever
21:46:42 <sesivany> edgates: I used RH service, we have better prices and yet they're still expensive.
21:47:05 <Mohamed_Fawzy> sesivany: it is cost 300 le shipping customs just 30 le
21:47:05 <Levex> oh wow that really is expensive
21:47:17 <taquilla> very expensive
21:47:33 <sesivany> standard postal service is much much cheaper, but the reliability varies.
21:47:36 <Levex> I just checked, 695EUR for a 25kg box from CZ to Egypt, outrageously expensive
21:48:10 <sesivany> sometimes it gets delivered without any problems, sometimes it gets lost forever.
21:48:39 <Levex> well then I think we are stuck with handling this on a case-by-case basis
21:49:03 <edgates> Standard post is reliable here but it could take you close to 6weeks to get it.
21:49:13 <rsc> Levex: 25kg would be freight (where Fedex, DHL or UPS) are not the best ones, I think (at least that is my experience)
21:49:29 <sesivany> Levex: yeah, FYI we sent two polo shirts to Mohamed before this one, they got lost, then I decided to use Fedex even though it's expensive.
21:50:26 <sesivany> rsc: btw DHL from Germany is much cheaper than from here because DHL offer only premium services here while in Germany it's pretty much normal mail.
21:50:36 <Levex> oh well, that's terrible...
21:50:36 <Mohamed_Fawzy_> sesivany: fedex is good but expensive
21:50:47 <Mohamed_Fawzy_> ups is so fast it takes 3 days  but little more expensive
21:51:01 <sesivany> rsc: in several cases, I shipped a package to cwickert and he shipped it with DHL to the final destination and it was cheaper.
21:51:14 <rsc> sesivany: would it make sense to do such shipping via Munich?
21:51:44 <taquilla> maybe its better cheaper than faster
21:51:50 <sesivany> rsc: in some cases yes, but I don't have anyone who could do that in Munich.
21:52:06 <rsc> sesivany: but isn't Munich *the* Red Hat office in EMEA?
21:52:18 <sesivany> rsc: it's not like it's a end-to-end service in Red Hat and you have people to do it, you have to ship it yourself.
21:52:22 <Mohamed_Fawzy> taquilla: the late at least more than 3 months
21:52:52 <sesivany> anyway, we've been discussing for too long already.
21:52:57 <taquilla> 3 months?
21:53:00 <rsc> sesivany: the best I can offer for the future is the same like cwickert did.
21:53:27 <Mohamed_Fawzy> yes taquilla
21:53:36 <sesivany> rsc: ok, I'll remember it :)
21:53:53 <sesivany> let's go to the next topic.
21:54:03 <Mohamed_Fawzy> sesivany: dnt forget to try pas as sender
21:54:10 <Mohamed_Fawzy> *pay
21:54:55 <sesivany> I'm skipping the ambassador's schedule topic because there is nothing new there.
21:55:01 <sesivany> #topic Events
21:55:17 <Mohamed_Fawzy> CatScope14 :D
21:55:21 <sesivany> anything on events?
21:55:41 <Mohamed_Fawzy> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CATScope14
21:55:44 <rsc> Chemnitzer Linux-Tage is taking place on Saturday and Sunday, Fedora will cover it.
21:56:16 <sesivany> rsc: great, I gave Miro swag for CLT today.
21:57:56 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: are you planning to have a talk or Fedora booth there?
21:58:17 <Mohamed_Fawzy> the 2 we are partner
21:58:37 <Mohamed_Fawzy> it is one of the biggest events in egypt
21:58:54 <Mohamed_Fawzy> the 14th time for it from 1996
21:59:00 <sesivany> nice
22:00:14 <Mohamed_Fawzy> speaker is very goo technically
22:00:21 <sesivany> rsc: what about the Open Source Days in Copenhagen?
22:00:37 <sesivany> rsc: is it going to take place?
22:01:45 <rsc> sesivany: I don't know. They did not announce anything and I did not get any reply so far.
22:02:28 <rsc> Their organisation team also had a rollover, so all my previous contacts are gone.
22:02:34 <sesivany> rsc: ok, we'll see, but we they haven't announced anything yet, I'm afraid it's again postponed or cancelled.
22:03:56 <rsc> sesivany: I'm going to send the domain owner an e-mail because their website is also down (don't know how long already)
22:04:05 <sesivany> does anyone have an idea if someone is going to LinuxWochen?
22:04:32 <sesivany> last year it was organized by gnokii, but I haven't seen him show any interest this year.
22:06:08 <sesivany> otherwise I don't have anything else to events.
22:06:27 <sesivany> #topic Openfloor
22:06:42 <sesivany> if you have any other topic to discuss, now it's your time ;)
22:07:38 <Mohamed_Fawzy> what high topic related to fedora will be better in 30 min talk ?
22:08:02 <lupinix> does any one here have experience with presentations of fedora @universities or similar? i'm promoting it at our physics department (scientific spin is very nice for this) but i do not know about others
22:08:24 <sesivany> Mohamed_Fawzy: some introduction to Fedora? New things in Fedora 21?
22:08:31 <lupinix> did a linux and python course here
22:08:40 <sesivany> lupinix: I do.
22:09:21 <sesivany> lupinix: I mean I had a presentation in front of IT students, 600 of them.
22:09:35 <lupinix> so how would you present for example to get people from non technical sciences?
22:09:52 <sesivany> lupinix: introducting Fedora to them because teachers strongly recommended them to do school programming projects on Linux.
22:09:58 <Mohamed_Fawzy> i did that before i want high level topic
22:10:05 <lupinix> yes, same for physics here
22:10:28 <Mohamed_Fawzy> some one will talk about akka and another for node js and another for docker
22:11:54 <sesivany> lupinix: I started with how to get Fedora, how to install it (all ways: virtual machine, dual mode, live), how the system looks, how to install apps. And at the end I showed them what Fedora could offer to them especially - so for programmers it was DevAssistant.
22:13:23 <lupinix> there will be a chance to make a seminar on this next semester, so i'm thinking about it :)
22:13:34 <lupinix> experience @physics department was very nice
22:13:40 <sesivany> lupinix: but you really need to expect no knowledge from the audience. The students were in their first year, but all of them have used computers for years, that's why they chose computer science, right? But they were all Windows and Mac users with zero knowledge of Linux.
22:14:28 <sesivany> lupinix: they had very "stupid" questions even about basic stuff in virtualization, didn't know how the whole concept works.
22:14:29 <lupinix> was the same here, mostly windows only except for some theoreticals
22:15:43 <sesivany> lupinix: but the effect was huge, since they were recommended to use Linux and I told them it's the most used system in the world nowadays and every IT guy will need to know Linux, most of them tried it.
22:16:07 <lupinix> in beginning i had problems not to lose people due to lack of knowledge @people
22:16:15 <sesivany> lupinix: and because we introduced Fedora to them, they tried Fedora. Otherwise they would have probably defaulted to Ubuntu.
22:16:33 <lupinix> nice :)
22:18:18 <sesivany> lupinix: we also had kind of install hours for them. A week after the presentation, we spent a whole day at the university and students could come if they had any problems with installation or anything else in Fedora.
22:19:00 <lupinix> one of the reasons here: people from datacenter think about a complete switch to linux @students workstations and this way i can have some influence.
22:19:32 <lupinix> because for physics (and also some other sciences) we have best package collection in fedora :)
22:19:36 <sesivany> lupinix: and it was a nightmare because the students who came really had troubled hardware, all those gaming blinking laptops with dual graphics cards :)
22:20:46 <sesivany> lupinix: at that university, they had Windows and CentOS in dualboot on all school machines.
22:21:19 <lupinix> CentOS is our main server OS here (I also work @administration @physics department)
22:21:51 <lupinix> but no python3 => cannot use it @students stations
22:22:49 <lupinix> also we want to follow development and not have old stuff without improvements
22:23:13 <sesivany> lupinix: then Fedora is definitely a good option :)
22:23:23 <taquilla> the best
22:23:51 <lupinix> especially in domain of python there is a fast development
22:24:00 <sesivany> ok, we will have to finish because AFAIK another meeting starts here in a couple of minutes.
22:24:19 <taquilla> ok
22:24:34 <lupinix> sesivany: thank you :)
22:24:36 <sesivany> thank you for attending today and meet you in 2 weeks!
22:24:47 <FedoraUser> thanks for chairing
22:25:11 <giannisk> have a great night everyone
22:25:17 <b10n1k> bb
22:25:19 <lupinix> bye
22:25:22 <taquilla> have a good 2 weeks
22:25:30 <sesivany> #endmeeting