14:01:00 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:01:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 18 14:01:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:00 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:01:00 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:01:00 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:02:24 * jjmcd 
14:02:32 * smccann slides in on fuzzy bunny slippers
14:02:56 <randomuser> jjmcd, hi!
14:02:57 * bexelbie 
14:03:05 <jjmcd> randomuser, hey
14:03:21 <kirsti> hello
14:04:30 <bexelbie> hello all
14:05:36 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:05:40 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
14:06:49 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:07:15 <randomuser> smccann wrote a nice summary of her experience as a new contributor for us, thanks!
14:07:32 <kirsti> I am still here though start up is slow
14:07:33 <bexelbie> +1
14:07:39 <randomuser> I think there's a clear need to revamp the contributor facing wiki pages
14:08:00 <randomuser> ... it's been said before, so it's probably time to act
14:08:02 <kirsti> working in a customer facing role, and had to let slip some meetings
14:09:07 <bexelbie> given that we are looking at overall workflow, do we have a process we are happy with for the medium term?
14:09:08 <randomuser> kirsti, any questions, or anything we can do to help you along?
14:09:25 <kirsti> I have agreed to talk to lnovac after the meeting
14:09:46 <kirsti> looking at the beat pages now,would that be a good place to start?
14:09:57 * rkratky is late
14:10:06 <randomuser> kirsti, not really, that's pretty much wrapped up for this release
14:10:54 <randomuser> hmm... this is always the hard part; helping people find writing 'assignments'
14:11:20 <bexelbie> smccann, did a good job of stating what we should shoot for around that
14:11:27 <bexelbie> but it requires some real doc lead/content strategy work
14:11:44 <kirsti> have not seen her notes yet, in a mail somewhere?
14:12:25 <kirsti> please keep in mind that though I have written in the past, fedora and all the tools you are using are new for me
14:12:29 <smccann> kirsti - yes I sent it out to the doc email alias. you can find it in the archives
14:12:49 <randomuser> I'd like to get in a position where the community - whether end users, or SIGs, or whatever, have a visible pipeline for requesting documentation on a given topic
14:13:20 <randomuser> kirsti, for things that we want broad, asynchronous discussion on, the mailing list is favored
14:13:29 <smccann> (doc archive link for kirsti - https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2015-May/thread.html)
14:13:53 <randomuser> for ad hoc conversations, brainstorming, or formal meetings, IRC is generally preferred
14:14:38 <kirsti> smccann++ got it!
14:15:46 <randomuser> kirsti, meeting up with lnovich is a good idea, she should be helpful
14:16:53 <randomuser> and I'll carry my unfinished action item from last weel
14:17:11 <randomuser> #action randomuser to redraft some contributor facing docs
14:17:23 <randomuser> the wiki is open to all, feel free to participate
14:17:35 <randomuser> #topic Release Notes
14:18:05 <randomuser> We're mostly settled here; grundblom is handling some git additions that look interesting, a somewhat current RPM has been submitted
14:18:15 <randomuser> ... it probably needs republishing
14:18:36 <randomuser> jjmcd, did you dig up any radio/circuitry type stuff to add?
14:18:56 <jjmcd> I did a little a couple weeks ago, but wasn't sure where we were in the sked
14:19:14 <jjmcd> Looked at one of I think 3 beats, didn't check the others
14:19:33 <randomuser> jjmcd, we've become somewhat flexible with the schedule, better late than never
14:19:49 * jjmcd discarded one of his titles, although added another.  But I have been seeing a little more daylight lately
14:19:55 <pbokoc> there were some leftover references to yum in relnotes that weren't supposed to be there, I fixed that just now
14:20:10 <randomuser> awesome
14:20:23 <jjmcd> Also did some work on ARG, including purging yum from all but the general install chapter
14:20:37 <pbokoc> also what happened to that bug with relnotes in /usr/share referring to F19?
14:20:39 <jjmcd> For that I need to know more about the expectations for the GUI Software app
14:21:17 <randomuser> pbokoc, there was an RPM that didn't have entities updated, it's been replaced
14:21:29 <randomuser> jjmcd, it's only packages that ship an appdata file
14:21:41 <jjmcd> Ahh, so only a few
14:22:05 <randomuser> yeah, absolutely no cli utilites or services, only user facing, gui "Applications"
14:22:17 <jjmcd> And only about a third of those
14:22:30 * randomuser nods
14:22:38 <pbokoc> randomuser, can you close https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1218853 then?
14:22:51 <randomuser> pbokoc, yeah, I'll do that now
14:23:04 <pbokoc> cool
14:23:04 <randomuser> jjmcd, otoh, appdata files aren't too difficult to write
14:23:27 <randomuser> I thought I had tied the package update to this one, actually
14:23:30 * randomuser checks bodhi
14:24:02 <randomuser> so, it sounds like I need to republish
14:24:29 <randomuser> pbokoc, https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/fedora-release-notes-22.02-1.fc22 - it should automatically close
14:25:27 <randomuser> #action randomuser to continue publishing updates to release notes
14:25:48 <randomuser> let's talk about guides
14:25:52 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:25:59 <randomuser> jjmcd++
14:25:59 <zodbot> randomuser: Karma for jjmcd changed to 1:  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/badge/macaron-cookie-i
14:26:12 <jjmcd> ;)
14:26:21 <randomuser> nice to see the amateur radio guide getting work
14:26:58 <jjmcd> It's actually in pretty decent shape except for that one chapter, and I have lots of the screen caps I need, just now need to change the prose to reflect DNF
14:27:18 <jjmcd> Oh, and a massive rewrite to SPLAT!
14:27:30 <randomuser> jjmcd, almost everything works if s/yum/dnf/ - only yum-utils stuff will throw you
14:27:39 <jjmcd> yeppers
14:28:10 <jjmcd> But the install chapter goes through the GUI app which is a lot different, and makes even less sense than before (for AR apps)
14:28:38 <randomuser> I've been converting the infra team's repo of 100+ articles to RestructuredText, as a test case for tools that will publish repos full of ReST articles
14:29:05 <randomuser> jjmcd, would it help if we added appdata?  I'd be happy to submit patches for applications
14:29:50 <jjmcd> Problem is mostly that stuff is scattered.  Most is Internet, which makes no sense, but a lot of AR-interesting apps have surprising categories
14:30:07 <jjmcd> Like gnuradio being an astronomy app.,  You wouldn't think of that
14:30:17 <randomuser> yeah, that's not intuitive
14:30:37 <randomuser> file a bug!
14:31:14 <randomuser> if you file a bug on appdata or something similarly simple, CC me on it and I'll try to contribute to a solution
14:31:22 <jjmcd> Great
14:31:37 <randomuser> it would be weird to have the guide go back and forth between two modes of package installation
14:32:51 <randomuser> oh, in other news, pbokoc and I played around a little with https://stg.pagure.io/install-guide
14:33:18 <randomuser> i think this could be an interesting and useful replacement for the trac instances
14:33:42 <randomuser> ... you know, the trac instances we don't use and I'll remove as soon as I remember to do it when in possession of my ubikey
14:35:28 <randomuser> the issue tracking thing in particular would facilitate coordinated updates or additions to a repo
14:36:40 <randomuser> more on that when it goes into production (or just later, maybe it already is)
14:36:44 <randomuser> any other guide news?
14:37:10 <smccann> virt getting started is nearly done
14:37:10 <randomuser> #chair jjmcd bexelbie
14:37:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie jjmcd randomuser
14:37:33 <smccann> I want to verify what's in a default install etc to make sure we talk about the right packages, but that's about all that's left
14:37:52 <smccann> then do I create a branch called f22?
14:38:14 <randomuser> smccann, yes, branch to "f$releasenumber" to publish
14:39:02 <smccann> okay do that on a specific day or just when I'm ready?
14:39:55 <randomuser> smccann, creating the branch doesn't [yet] trigger publishing, so you can create the branch and ping someone who is in docs-publishers when it's ready
14:40:04 <randomuser> probably me or pkovar
14:40:38 <smccann> got it. thanks
14:40:42 <pbokoc> it's generally nice to have it ready the same day Fedora itself releases (or before that), but not entirely necessary
14:41:01 * randomuser nods
14:41:22 <randomuser> sooner is better, but it's not like we'll reject it for being late :P
14:41:33 <randomuser> #topic User Personas
14:41:48 <randomuser> bexelbie, care to take charge of this topic?
14:42:01 * bexelbie is double meeting ... looks back
14:42:25 <bexelbie> I sent an email - I proposed that we look at overall personas that we define at a high level like characters in a novel
14:42:34 <bexelbie> and then specialize if required for a project component
14:42:50 <bexelbie> randomuser, proposed just noting hte level of skill expected in a document
14:43:05 <bexelbie> there is also what is in the wiki from before where we were thinking about component level personas
14:43:16 <bexelbie> I strongly encourage folks to chime in on hte list
14:43:18 <randomuser> well, I wrote that before I fully understood the narrative direction of your proposal
14:43:25 <bexelbie> otherwise we may need some benevolent dictatorship
14:43:34 * bexelbie I got that :)
14:43:41 <bexelbie> I meant to say that
14:43:55 <bexelbie> but I think it opened an idea up for exploration that was worth thinking through
14:44:07 <randomuser> I like the idea of the narrative, and I like the idea of having .. oh, an easy to understand number on the top right of the browser window
14:44:48 <randomuser> then you could click the number to be led to a page that explains in general terms the expected skillset required - ie, the persona description
14:44:57 <bexelbie> I think we can make both happen
14:45:04 <bexelbie> I agree that a number is easier to comprehend than a set of names
14:45:27 * bexelbie will try to move that forward on the wiki when my flight lands
14:45:39 <bexelbie> but we really need some additional input, if folks have opinions
14:46:07 <randomuser> I have an idea for moving forward, but I'll take your hint and send it to the list
14:47:55 <randomuser> #info participate in personas discussion on the docs list!
14:48:10 <randomuser> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:48:23 <randomuser> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:48:26 <randomuser> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:48:30 <randomuser> thar be bugs
14:48:49 <pbokoc> I think I'm gonna open a bug asking to remove this item from the agenda :))
14:49:13 <randomuser> pbokoc, good luck with that, nobody looks at bugs!
14:49:22 <pbokoc> yeah, I'm aware of the irony
14:49:52 <bexelbie> should we refocus this part of the meeting?
14:50:00 <bexelbie> aroung bugs of a high priority
14:50:05 <bexelbie> introduce them and try to find them a partner?
14:50:14 <randomuser> hm.. that's a good idea
14:50:14 <bexelbie> or at least have a bot spam us with the top 5
14:50:31 <pbokoc> I don't think that's gonna help... I mean, for starters, someone would have to set the priorities
14:50:32 <bexelbie> that could also go to helping new/lurking writers find something to do
14:50:54 <randomuser> we can close out the old ones, at least
14:50:57 <bexelbie> pbokoc, we could start with the top 5 newest and see if we can build success that makes it worth investing in prioriting them
14:50:57 <pbokoc> plus there are only 4 settings (5 if you count undefined), so "top 5" would be quite hard to put together
14:51:14 <pbokoc> yeah, I was just about to say - 5 newest bugs sounds better
14:51:22 <randomuser> looking at the list, sorted by age - there are two for the RPM guide - who wants them?
14:51:23 <pbokoc> or even new bugs since last meeting
14:51:41 <pbokoc> randomuser, better question would be "who wants the RPM guide", I think :)
14:52:01 <randomuser> well, pkovar does, but the packager's guide has not materialized
14:52:39 <randomuser> It would be easy to jettison these bugs, but the RPM guide *is* widely referenced
14:53:14 <randomuser> also, RPM does not change quickly, it should not be hard for us to maintain this guide
14:53:26 <randomuser> I'm taking https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=199318
14:54:11 <bexelbie> pbokoc, what is holding up pkovar?
14:54:30 <pbokoc> I don't know... work, probably :)
14:55:06 <pbokoc> that, or having to constantly publish our guides because he's the only person in Brno with a f18 VM
14:55:49 <bexelbie> pbokoc, there is that :D
14:56:25 <randomuser> no takers for other old bugs?
14:56:32 <pbokoc> let'em rot
14:56:48 <smccann> i'll scan the few associated with the virt getting started guide
14:57:02 <randomuser> awesome
14:57:11 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:57:54 <pbokoc> I have to run to another meeting, o/
14:58:06 <randomuser> oh, capesteve probably has solved https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=830123
14:59:06 * bexelbie has to drop - time to head out
14:59:19 <bexelbie> see you all in two weeks - I'll miss next week - so use hte mailing list!!!
14:59:21 <bexelbie> :D
14:59:22 <williamjmorenor> It can be useful if I start a wiki about starting with i3 getting stared?
14:59:37 <randomuser> williamjmorenor, sure, absolutely!
15:00:02 <williamjmorenor> ok
15:00:16 <randomuser> be bold with the wiki :)
15:00:20 <randomuser> #endmeeting