14:05:19 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:05:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 15 14:05:19 2015 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:05:21 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:05:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:05:23 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:05:26 * Capesteve waves
14:05:38 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:05:38 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
14:05:40 * lnovich runs in out of breath
14:05:41 * smccann is here
14:05:47 * jjmcd 
14:05:56 * zoglesby is here
14:06:17 <wdashley> wdashley is here
14:07:13 <grundblom> is here
14:07:15 <grundblom> and stuff
14:07:53 <randomuser> that's the spirit!
14:08:01 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:08:21 <randomuser> wdashley, want to talk about your libvirt guide proposal?
14:08:42 <wdashley> sure. Has everyone seen the proposal?
14:09:03 * rkratky here
14:09:11 <randomuser> I have, but a short recap for the minutes won't hurt, prepended with #info
14:09:20 <wdashley> ok
14:09:45 <bexelbie> I have
14:10:15 <wdashley> Basically there us a gap for scripting virtualization items
14:10:42 <wdashley> While there is a Python interface it is completely undocumented
14:11:17 <wdashley> there is also an almost complete lack of good examples for using it
14:11:44 <wdashley> I would like to fix that, with the help of the libvirt team if possible
14:11:50 <randomuser> awesome
14:12:10 <lnovich> will this information be on the libvirt site as well?
14:12:34 <randomuser> presuming wdashley is comfortable with CC-BY-SA, they can put it there if they like
14:13:23 <randomuser> there's a wiki page around here somewhere with the SOP for creating a new guide
14:13:25 * randomuser looks
14:13:32 <wdashley> I think it would be great to have it in multiple places
14:13:41 <lnovich> a word of caution on this endeavor - just because we think it is useful doesn't mean people will use it / want to use it. you may be spending a lot of time working on something little will read. - not sure how many users of Fedora are really running VMs - Worth investigating....
14:14:08 <wdashley> ye, I agree
14:14:27 <randomuser> there are plenty of users of downstream distros that reference fedora guides
14:14:29 <lnovich> trust me documenting an API is a full time + job
14:14:42 <randomuser> and if the niche is not filled, I think it's a win
14:15:11 <randomuser> but yeah, lots of work for you
14:15:17 <wdashley> Are there any stats on how many times the Fedora Vit Guide is looked at?
14:15:31 <randomuser> probably somewhere, for the asking
14:15:49 <wdashley> that may gice us some usage clues
14:16:18 <randomuser> marketing ( Pintomatic ) was talking about compiling some metrics on site visitation, but I'm not sure where that's at
14:16:50 <randomuser> If you want to jump right into it, wdashley, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Creating_a_new_guide covers the infrastructure setup steps
14:17:10 <wdashley> ok, will take a look
14:17:34 <randomuser> wdashley, how else can we help?  Would a mentor for the drafting and research steps help?
14:17:51 <wdashley> absolutely
14:17:59 <lnovich> not sure how much overlap there is at the moment with what already exits but i can help you in the process
14:18:23 <randomuser> lnovich, I guess you want the mentor role here?
14:18:47 <lnovich> unless you think there is someone else in mind
14:19:08 <wdashley> One of the first items on my list is to contact the libvirt team
14:19:08 <randomuser> strictly a first-come volunteer opportunity
14:20:36 <lnovich> DV is the maintainer
14:20:44 <randomuser> #info randomuser sponsored wdashley into docs-writers for work on a libvirt api guide
14:21:22 <randomuser> from here, maybe the two of you can work out a time to have a planning/strategy session in -docs?
14:21:43 <wdashley> sounds good
14:22:21 <lnovich> yup
14:22:37 <randomuser> excellent
14:22:42 <randomuser> #topic F23 Changes
14:22:59 <randomuser> #info Change proposals are already starting for Fedora 23
14:23:08 <wdashley> I am usually available after 9:30 CDT almost every week day
14:23:25 <randomuser> #info docs writers should 'own' documenting each Change
14:23:37 <randomuser> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/23/ChangeSet?rd=Releases/23
14:24:02 <randomuser> there are six changes approved changes so far
14:24:34 <randomuser> I'm thinking it might be a good idea to do a weekly summary of approvals on the list
14:24:42 <bexelbie> +1
14:24:46 <wdashley> +1
14:25:17 <randomuser> of course, lots of work happens after approval and we want to keep those volunteers on track, so the approach to covering them is open to suggestion
14:26:07 <wdashley> probably too soon to figure that out. Let's wait until I contact the libvirt team
14:26:30 <randomuser> wdashley, we've moved on to talking about general big changes proposed for Fedora 23
14:26:43 <wdashley> oh, sorry
14:27:16 <randomuser> no worries
14:27:35 <randomuser> #info somebody, probably randomuser, will try to send out weeky summaries of accepted changes
14:28:01 <randomuser> it would be nice to, say, rotate that duty each week, with someone volunteering to do it during that section of the meeting
14:28:04 <randomuser> I'll start.
14:28:33 <randomuser> #info weekly rotating coverage of newly approved changes proposed
14:28:55 <randomuser> #topic Publishing
14:29:23 <randomuser> life has gotten in the way of progress here, but I did discuss the strategy with zoglesby and bexelbie during the last week, perhaps they'll help
14:29:29 <randomuser> any questions for now?
14:29:38 <bexelbie> and bexelbie is working on a summary of hta tdiscussion for the list/others
14:29:45 <randomuser> bexelbie++
14:30:28 <grundblom> I am kind of lost, where can I find more information to get up to speed on this?
14:30:59 <randomuser> oh, I guess I did talk to nirik about getting some cloud instances to use for development, but I need to file a proper ticket to ask for them
14:31:25 <randomuser> grundblom, it's been on and off the mailing list for a while
14:32:08 <randomuser> bexelbie's summary will be helpful
14:32:15 <randomuser> #topic Guide Status
14:32:19 <bexelbie> I am hoping to rework the chat lots this week
14:32:43 <randomuser> guides, guides
14:33:16 <randomuser> seems like we're in good shape for now, and covered WIP stuff last week
14:33:27 <smccann> what are thoughts about trying to bring the virt deployment guide up to current?
14:34:24 <randomuser> I'm all for it if you want to take it on, smccann, but it's one where divergence from lnovich's [downstream] guide might hurt more than help, so I'll defer to her
14:35:03 <smccann> can you clarify that statement? As in best to just let users find the RHEL guide instead?
14:35:55 <lnovich> it won't hurt me as i don't pull from that guide - I only push to it - the person who it may hurt is smccann if I push new content - so we'll have to work that out
14:36:25 <randomuser> the Fedora guide is an adapted version of the RHEL guide.  Keeping parity between the rhel guide and the fedora guide can enable a Red Hat writer to work on it
14:36:45 <randomuser> and yeah, it's not fun to put in a bunch of work and have someone else's commits plow it away
14:37:18 <smccann> so lnovich - you are currently pushing your new content into the fedora virt guide?
14:37:19 <zoglesby> randomuser: the commits are still there, the text is just not in master :P
14:37:27 <randomuser> har har
14:37:38 <lnovich> no plans to
14:38:03 <lnovich> as it needs to be re-tweaked and tested
14:38:11 <smccann> so where do you push, from your prior statement?
14:38:48 <lnovich> when I DID (which sadly have not done in a few good months) - it was to the location you are familiar with
14:39:04 <lnovich> but currently I do not...
14:39:17 <bexelbie> lnovich, the master branch in that repo?
14:39:28 <randomuser> I believe she is probably copying the content files from one repo to another, sans git, then committing in bulk
14:39:49 <randomuser> that workflow would not work if we maintain the fedora guide independently
14:39:59 <lnovich> independent is better IMHO
14:40:23 <lnovich> the users who will use virt on Fedora are not the same
14:40:29 <lnovich> and we should write for them
14:40:44 <randomuser> If it means the Fedora Guide gets updated, I agree, but it's your contribution that gets harder, lnovich
14:40:48 <lnovich> we need to look at the tools such as boxes and such
14:40:51 <bexelbie> I agree - Fedora needs docs that reflect fedora's code, not RHEL's.  If RHEL wants to use material from the fedora guide (and my opinion is that it should) then they should work like code works .. upstream and selective pull
14:40:54 <smccann> would it help if I pop into the wednesday office hrs and chat w/ lnovich on this? I don't want to create extra work, but would like to take on another task
14:41:05 <lnovich> i have no problem adding small parts once the big stuff is done
14:41:25 <lnovich> we can /should talk about this on Wed -ie off list
14:41:42 <randomuser> when is the Wednesday office hours? is that the EMEA session?
14:41:52 <bexelbie> smccann, lnovich, can you put a summary of your conversaitons on list?
14:41:55 <smccann> i have it listed as 9am ET
14:41:59 <lnovich> #info - Laura is changing office hours on Wednesdays in 2 weeks
14:42:02 <bexelbie> the workflow might be useful to model other stuff on
14:42:13 <randomuser> bexelbie++
14:42:27 <lnovich> #info lnovich will be located in EST and will need to change it for July and Aug
14:43:24 <randomuser> cool, sounds like there's a plan in place
14:43:40 <lnovich> sure can do bexelbie
14:43:43 <randomuser> grundblom, are you getting in on this as well?
14:43:52 <bexelbie> ty
14:44:27 <grundblom> I am reading it, and trying to understand where I can help
14:44:32 <randomuser> I'm sure there's enough Changes to keep folks busy too
14:44:36 <grundblom> I am a little lost
14:45:13 <randomuser> they're talking about updating the big virt guide, now that the quickstart is up to date
14:45:24 <randomuser> maybe attend the office hours session and get a feel for it
14:45:24 <smccann> grundblom - there's a lot in that guide I don't understand either, but hoping working on it will help me understand it better, over time
14:46:28 <randomuser> bexelbie, do you want to go over personas or the like?
14:46:39 <grundblom> Oh, thats where I was lost, so were discussing the virt guide not the quick start guides, gotcha
14:46:47 <randomuser> there's basically a bexelbie slot in the meeting :P
14:46:50 <grundblom> I think I would like to attend the office hours as well for clarification
14:47:02 <bexelbie> randomuser, I am not aware of anything changing on personas .. and I haven't done anything with it in ht elast week
14:47:10 <randomuser> ok
14:47:17 <bexelbie> sorry
14:47:44 <randomuser> no worries - that will turn out to be an initiative-driven effort, not a groupthink project, imo
14:47:57 <randomuser> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
14:48:07 <randomuser> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
14:48:12 <randomuser> thar be bugs
14:48:35 <randomuser> and a handful of new ones since the release, so please check your bz assignments
14:49:15 <randomuser> #info if you don't have bug assignments, feel free to check the list of bugs for opportunities
14:50:53 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor Discussion
14:51:08 <randomuser> about eight minutes left to get your digs in
14:51:51 <grundblom> So is there going to be a discussion on the virt guide?
14:51:59 <grundblom> or did I not catch that?
14:52:21 <lnovich> grundblom: we will discuss it during my office hours on Wed if you can attend
14:52:45 <grundblom> those office hours are 9am EST? on the 17th?
14:52:58 <lnovich> yes
14:53:17 <grundblom> bummer, I wont be able to make it
14:54:11 <lnovich> would a different time be better?
14:54:33 <grundblom> I am open afternoons this week,
14:54:52 <lnovich> where are you located?
14:54:58 <grundblom> Champaign IL
14:55:01 <grundblom> CST
14:55:18 <lnovich> ah - I am in Israel so CST in the afternoon may be  bit late for me
14:56:23 <grundblom> Let me move some things around, I will work on making it work
14:56:34 <lnovich> that would be great if you can
14:57:20 <grundblom> understood, will do my best
14:57:40 <grundblom> I guess the best thing would be to download the current guide and give it a look over?
14:58:25 <randomuser> that'd be a good start
14:59:00 <randomuser> oh!
14:59:00 <grundblom> Ok, I will do that,
14:59:15 <randomuser> #action randomuser to send Change summary to docs list
14:59:38 <randomuser> #action bexelbie to send publishing effort summary to docs list
15:00:00 <randomuser> #endmeeting