04:13:00 <tuanta> #startmeeting APAC 20150926
04:13:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat Sep 26 04:13:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is tuanta. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
04:13:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
04:13:08 <tuanta> #topic Roll call
04:13:17 <amit> .hellomynameis amitshah
04:13:18 <zodbot> amit: amitshah 'Amit Shah' <amit.shah@redhat.com>
04:13:21 <adimania> .hello adimania
04:13:22 <zodbot> adimania: adimania 'Aditya Patawari' <adimania@gmail.com>
04:13:23 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
04:13:25 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
04:13:26 <zsun> .hellomynameis zsun
04:13:29 <zodbot> zsun: zsun 'Ziqian SUN (Zamir)' <sztsian@gmail.com>
04:13:54 <botreynisa> .hellomynameis
04:13:54 <zodbot> botreynisa: (hellomynameis <username>) -- Return brief information about a Fedora Account System username. Useful for things like meeting roll call and calling attention to yourself.
04:14:25 <tuanta> #info Agenda Item: Voting for location for FUDCon APAC 2016
04:14:32 <tuanta> any other topic today?
04:14:53 <gnokii> mayorga: please point me to this rule, that they have to be from different countries
04:15:03 <gnokii> .fas gnokii
04:15:03 <zodbot> gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de>
04:17:31 <tuanta> #topic Voting for location for FUDCon APAC 2016
04:18:04 <botreynisa> .fas botreynisa
04:18:04 <zodbot> botreynisa: botreynisa 'Nisa Ban' <bandnisa@gmail.com>
04:18:10 <tuanta> before voting, I think we should have a short time to finalize all our concerns
04:18:21 <mayorga> gnokii: I see it's not documented that way for APAC, but it is for LATAM: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/LATAM/Reimbursement#Limits_per_trac_ticket
04:19:07 <tuanta> I see Somvannda sent another email ti the list: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2015-September/023814.html
04:19:25 <amit> yeah, it came too late for a discussion.
04:19:50 <amit> anyway I'm reasonably happy that the money won't be a big problem.
04:20:43 <tuanta> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_PhnomPenh_2016
04:21:53 <botreynisa> amit: are you sure that money is not a big problem? i remember that last time money is a big problem
04:22:47 <tuanta> botreynisa, you need to answer that question. You are a member of organizing team
04:23:07 <tuanta> #chair botreynisa amit adimania gnokii
04:23:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: adimania amit botreynisa gnokii tuanta
04:23:24 <amit> botreynisa: right.. you have to convince us
04:23:39 <amit> let me jot down the points of concern I had:
04:23:59 <amit> 1. getting money inside cambodia (this is addressed by somvannda's email), but botreynisa might have more to say about it
04:24:16 <adimania> botreynisa, the mail that somvannda sent, seems to signify that money would not be as major issue as we were thinking if you have concerns, regardless of being the organizer, please tell us.
04:24:28 <amit> 2. the bid page shows it'll rain a lot in Oct, how to deal with that?  will it be a problem?
04:24:44 <gnokii> amit 1st
04:24:57 <amit> 3. timing might clash with other events, like fudcon-latam and/or flock.  are we ready to wait for a long time before reimbursements start coming?
04:25:19 <amit> this point (3) was raised during fudcon-pune, but I don't see anyone followed it up with the Council or Ruth
04:25:24 <gnokii> !
04:25:34 <amit> we still haven't had all reimbursements done for Pune
04:25:55 <adimania> amit, i think gnokii did follow up on point 3 at least.
04:26:01 <amit> also, due to the way budgeting works (quarterly), all of this might make plans go haywire
04:26:17 <amit> but since we have about a year's time, we can somehow work to get this happen smoothly
04:26:29 <amit> lastly:
04:26:32 <gnokii> amit, you did not read the list, I had a conversation with Ruth about it and its no problem for her if she knows it
04:26:56 <gnokii> and for some other points they was already discussed at FUDCon and was clear and now you bring them up again
04:27:00 <amit> 4. we're paying USD1000 -- how many fedora contributors (ie existing ones from various countries) are we expecting there to make it worthwhile?
04:27:21 <amit> gnokii: if you're accusing me of not reading the list, please provide a pointer that specifically addresses that questions.
04:28:52 <gnokii> I accussing you of something else
04:29:28 <amit> gnokii: I won't be bringing up the points if I was already satisfied.  I already said somvannda's email addresses one of my concerns.
04:29:33 <gnokii> you bring up here any point which was cleared on fudcon and later again, we have very well documented in the last meeting log that only the financial thing was open
04:29:50 <amit> gnokii: not true.
04:30:00 <zsun> gnokii: Although I did not read your email, from my experience I know Rush have workarounds to deal with reimbursements.
04:30:09 <tuanta> #chair zsun
04:30:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: adimania amit botreynisa gnokii tuanta zsun
04:30:13 <amit> anyway I've just laid out my points.
04:30:20 <amit> people can agree or disagree and vote.
04:30:37 <zsun> In my opinion, reimbursements for FUDCon Beijing is NOT by paypal, it's worked in other methods
04:31:27 <tuanta> my Pune ticket (and some others) has not been reimbursed yet
04:31:47 <amit> gnokii: we agreed to have a discussion on th emailing list, and sending the email only last night doesn't really leave time for discussion.  I'd have done this on the list happily had you given everyone more time.
04:32:00 <amit> what we had agreed to last meeting was wwe'll only have a vote and no discussion
04:32:11 <amit> so if we have to vote in the current status, it's really your loss
04:32:37 <tuanta> yes, but it sent out too late so I think we should have a short time to discuss more
04:32:39 <amit> anyway these were just my quetsions.  others may or may not have these questions, or have other ones.
04:33:29 <tuanta> I have a long time question which seems not to be addressed yet
04:33:34 <tuanta> about budget: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_PhnomPenh_2016#Budget_Planning
04:34:19 <tuanta> I paste the full question here: "You are planning for 100 participants, but travel subsidies are for 12 ones.
04:34:20 <tuanta> Who are the left 88 ones? Did you think about it?"
04:35:07 <botreynisa> amit: to my point of view i just don't understand, since somvannda's mail solve the paypal
04:35:40 <amit> botreynisa: that's what I said too.
04:35:46 <tuanta> this is from Budget Planning section "accomodation for 100 person, 4 nights app. 4.000 US$ (option Tonle Sekong Hotel)"
04:37:11 <botreynisa> I really don't understand if we have a desire to expand the community why bother some small obstacles
04:37:54 <zsun> OT, some info, just FYI, FUDCon Beijing 2014 hold in late May, reimbursement fully gotten in late October.
04:37:57 <tuanta> #chair somvannda
04:37:57 <zodbot> Current chairs: adimania amit botreynisa gnokii somvannda tuanta zsun
04:38:18 <tuanta> zsun, the same at Pune
04:38:37 <tuanta> so we have to face that
04:38:49 <botreynisa> +1 tuanta
04:39:02 <amit> botreynisa: it's not about obstacles.  it's just about seeing that the organisers have thought through everything.  there might be things you didn't expect to go wrong.. we're just trying to help you in that way.
04:39:26 <zsun> tuanta:  this is a questoin/problem for all FUDCon in APAC, not only for Phnom Penh
04:39:37 <zsun> tuanta: I mean, time before reimbursememt
04:39:47 <botreynisa> I am really thankful for that... but you know everything not perfect, right?
04:40:07 <adimania> also, travel funding for 12 people and booking for a 100 is not a small thing.
04:40:28 <tuanta> botreynisa, money is not a small obstacle. it is a big problem. If you are ready to face it
04:40:32 <tuanta> zsun, understood
04:40:36 <adimania> zsun, agreed. +1
04:40:39 <gnokii> you know what sucks, answering always the same question to the same guy
04:40:48 <gnokii> tuanta: always brings that up again
04:40:56 <amit> tuanta: yes, my point 4 and your question are related.  they've not been addressed yet.
04:41:25 <amit> gnokii: just provide pointers to where the discussion happened and the resolution.
04:41:27 <adimania> gnokii, if you think that this is happening again then why not use wiki and put everything there.
04:41:34 <adimania> that is what wiki is there for.
04:41:54 <amit> gnokii: if you keep accusing everyone here of something, is it possible you're not doing a good job somewhere?
04:42:05 <somvannda> look! I was lost in the conversation, but to my assumption, you guys are discussing how to face with the budget. We did answer this through the mail.
04:42:10 <gnokii> I will do nothing of this, there was clearly noted in the last meeting log, that you can bring up anything for discussion on the mailing list
04:42:24 <amit> gnokii: and that mail came last night.
04:42:32 <amit> gnokii: not enough time for any discussion.
04:42:36 <amit> gnokii: you do realise that, don't you?
04:43:02 <gnokii> amit, what mail that of the financial, so it looks more you was not enabled to write a mail with your concerns
04:43:19 <amit> sigh
04:43:27 <amit> can we just vote now?
04:43:34 <amit> discussion's going nowhere
04:43:52 <gnokii> yes because there was clearly said anyway discussion on the mailing list
04:44:05 <gnokii> and you did not wanted to hear something
04:44:21 <gnokii> so its your fault not writing your concerns to the mailing lists
04:45:46 <tuanta> gnokii, the concern about how organizing team can deal with cash has been discussed much on the mailing and it needs to be made clear before voting
04:45:48 <adimania> gnokii, agreed that we should have written it the list but should you be refusing to answer any of the community questions now? You do realize that this would become a problem for you guys later to get any reimbursements?
04:46:36 <adimania> no one is going to reimburse the team for booking 100 rooms when, say, 10 were required.
04:46:44 <gnokii> tuanta: I dont see here any discussion of money I see things like raining season and hotel and clashes of fudcon latam and this was answered many times before
04:46:47 <tuanta> I am happy to hear that organizing team have a solution for that big problem
04:48:24 <tuanta> so if organizing team think everything is in place now, I think we should do voting
04:49:01 <zsun> tuanta: agree. Especially we decided to vote in this meeting
04:49:37 <tuanta> somvannda, do you want to tell anything more before voting?
04:50:29 <tuanta> some of us think there are some un-addressed concerns, but gnokii thinks not
04:50:50 <somvannda> tuanta: i think every concerns are answered in the mail.
04:51:10 <gnokii> tuanta: I told you last meeting something and I think now I will go higher
04:51:34 <tuanta> voting now?
04:51:45 <gnokii> its not a funny game, getting the answer and then again ask the same question again
04:52:30 <zsun> oops.
04:56:13 <somvannda_> hi
04:56:57 <botreynisa> hello?
04:57:00 <zsun> so shall we continue voting with Tuan offline?
04:57:12 <botreynisa> yes
04:58:13 <zsun> gnokii adimania amit ?
04:58:20 <gnokii> yes
04:59:11 <amit> do we have enough people to vote?  I think it's only zsun adimania and me apart from organisers
04:59:14 <amit> so just 3 votes
04:59:16 <amit> note enough I think
04:59:30 <amit> not*
04:59:32 <adimania> I am fine with it however I don't want to reach any decision on the basis of 3-4 people. those missing can send their vote over the list.
04:59:44 <zsun> amit oh, I see that.
04:59:51 <gnokii> haha
04:59:59 <gnokii> isnt that funny
05:00:08 <gnokii> for Pune, all the indians came and voted
05:00:24 <gnokii> we vote now
05:00:36 <somvannda> ok
05:00:41 <somvannda> good
05:01:01 <botreynisa> let's vote than
05:01:09 <adimania> gnokii, not all indians were organizers.
05:01:27 <zsun> I think we can vote and leave the result to Tuan to make a decision?
05:01:33 <gnokii> yeam but many organizers voted and now, when it comes to others its not allowed
05:01:42 <gnokii> we are 6 and thats a quorum and thats it
05:02:00 <amit> how many ambassadors?
05:02:14 <amit> only ambassadors can vote - isn't that right?
05:03:27 <gnokii> 6 I can count
05:03:55 <botreynisa> okay +1 from me
05:04:46 <tuanta> sorry, my network has been disconnected
05:04:56 <adimania> tuanta, please start the voting.
05:05:03 <zsun> adimania: +1
05:05:16 <tuanta> yes, please cast your vote now
05:05:29 <botreynisa> +1 for Phnom Penh
05:06:01 <tuanta> if major of us who available during this meeting approve, the bid will be taken to FAmSCo then Council
05:06:11 <somvannda> of course +1 from me
05:06:21 <tuanta> ping amit adimania somvannda zsun gnokii botreynisa
05:06:27 * zsun +1 for Phnom Penh with note: Hotel/travel is reimbursed per person
05:06:46 <gnokii> +1
05:07:13 <botreynisa> I already voted
05:07:17 <tuanta> ping amit adimania
05:07:58 <amit> Main concern about money has been addressed, but others have not been.  I hope organisers can address everything before the event.  Also I hope gnokii can learn to work with others and not see a conspiracy in everything.
05:08:02 <amit> +1 from me
05:08:07 <adimania> +1. Note: hotel booking should not be for 100 people. gnokii needs to calm down.
05:08:23 <tuanta> I am +1 with concern about budget planning
05:08:29 <gnokii> amit, we did talk about raining season, clashing and all the stuff you concerned already in Pune
05:08:29 <tuanta> ok, thanks
05:08:58 <amit> gnokii: please update your bid page then with the details
05:09:10 <gnokii> I got a task and I fullfilled it, I did write the result to the mailing list, and it was said last meeting discussion on the maling list, if you not write a mail to the list its YOUR FAULT
05:09:17 <tuanta> so we have 7 "+1" with 4 notes
05:09:27 <amit> gnokii: understand that I cannot remember the discussions that happen everrywhere.
05:09:28 <tuanta> thanks everyone
05:09:34 <amit> gnokii: pleaes give pointer to archives
05:09:43 <amit> anyway all the best to the team for the fudcon
05:09:56 <amit> I just hope gnokii improves his mindset and his communications
05:10:54 <tuanta> gnokii, botreynisa and somvannda: please listen to other's notes and make all necessary changes to the wiki
05:10:55 <tuanta> #action gnokii, botreynisa and somvannda consider notes and make all necessary changes to the wiki
05:11:02 <tuanta> #tuanta to bring the bid and voting results to FAmSCo
05:11:12 <tuanta> #action tuanta to bring the bid and voting results to FAmSCo
05:11:54 <tuanta> #agreed APAC regional community approved the Phnom Penh bid for FUDCon APAC 2016 with some notes
05:12:01 <tuanta> anything else to day?
05:12:32 <tuanta> I will end the meeting in a few minutes
05:12:48 <amit> gone again.
05:12:59 <amit> do we have anything?
05:13:12 <amit> I'll close th emeeting in 1 min if there's nothing
05:13:13 * zsun nothing else
05:13:16 <adimania> the reimbursement issue.
05:13:21 <amit> adimania: right.
05:13:31 <amit> adimania: izhar still didn't get to it.
05:13:42 <adimania> it is getting delayed and contacting izhar for a date is becoming nightmare.
05:13:42 <amit> adimania: I can email Ruth and ask her if she's OK with me re-assigning them all to her.
05:13:54 <amit> adimania: then I can reassign them and she can pay them out
05:14:17 <amit> hopefully she's in a better position now that flock and fudcon-latam are over
05:14:23 <adimania> amit, that would be great but I think we really need a second or another CC holder for apac.
05:14:46 <zsun> amit +1. FUDCon 2014 is reimbursed by Ruth directly.
05:14:48 <adimania> s/another/reassign
05:14:59 <amit> #action amit to ask Ruth if she can pay the remaining fudcon-apac tickets instead of waiting for izhar.
05:15:12 <amit> adimania: yes, that's another thing in my plate, which I will get to as well.
05:15:27 <amit> ok - anything else?
05:16:45 <adimania> that is all from me.
05:16:52 <gnokii> hello you can not read mails cant you?
05:17:17 <gnokii> Ruth wrote 3 weeks ago that she has reimbursed all and if you was not reimbursed she said speak to her
05:17:35 <amit> gnokii: please be civil
05:17:43 <amit> gnokii: you're also not informed on what's happening here
05:18:19 <amit> gnokii: it's tiring to talk to you and that is not something I want to do on my weekends
05:18:31 <amit> anyway looks like nothing else so I'll end this meeting.
05:18:33 <amit> thanks all.
05:18:37 <amit> #endmeeting