15:05:21 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig
15:05:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 23 15:05:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:05:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:05:24 <rdieter> #meetingname kde-sig
15:05:24 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:05:28 <rdieter> #topic roll call
15:05:36 <rdieter> hi all, friendly kde-sig meeting, who's present today?
15:05:37 * heliocastro here
15:05:40 * jgrulich is present
15:06:26 <tosky> hi
15:07:21 <rdieter> #info rdieter heliocastro jgrulich tosky present
15:07:27 <rdieter> #chair heliocastro jgrulich tosky
15:07:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: heliocastro jgrulich rdieter tosky
15:07:33 <rdieter> #topic agenda
15:07:41 <rdieter> ok, what to discuss today?
15:08:18 <rdieter> we could probably include a brief qt-5.6.0 status update
15:08:44 <heliocastro> yep
15:09:41 <rdieter> well, let's move on to that then
15:09:45 <heliocastro> I want to raise too my concerns of the increase of toxic behavior on our channel
15:09:51 <rdieter> #topic qt-5.6.0 status report
15:09:57 <rdieter> heliocastro: ok, will discuss
15:10:23 <heliocastro> rc is out, saddly suffer a BIC in the middle of "prepare" rc
15:10:28 <heliocastro> we have a few new modules
15:10:35 <heliocastro> i think webview is dependent of webengine
15:11:02 <heliocastro> I'm on the middle of prepare the packages to be submitted to upstream
15:11:29 <heliocastro> But that's it
15:11:37 <heliocastro> This time they did by the book
15:11:42 <rdieter> great.  the last rc/snapshot batch didn't work on plasma very well for me, I ended up having to go back to 5.5.1
15:11:44 <heliocastro> we have tar.xz packages
15:12:17 <heliocastro> rdieter: That one was fixed yesterday.
15:12:45 <rdieter> i'll be sure to try out the new back you're preparing now, no worries
15:12:52 <rdieter> new batch... that is
15:14:06 <rdieter> anything else on 5.6.0 ?
15:14:06 <heliocastro> But now we just need to wait to pass on both copr and rawhide
15:14:11 <heliocastro> Nope
15:14:44 <rdieter> ok, moving on...
15:15:24 <rdieter> #topic toxic behavior in fedora-kde channel
15:15:37 <rdieter> heliocastro: go ahead
15:16:24 <heliocastro> Well
15:16:32 <heliocastro> Seens some time we've tolerated some behavior
15:16:39 <heliocastro> IN the past was Kevin
15:16:49 <heliocastro> and he is already enough for many people
15:17:13 <heliocastro> But recently we start to see several people behaving like him
15:17:25 <heliocastro> On the mail list, on the channel
15:17:38 <lupinix> hi all!
15:17:42 <rdieter> lupinix: hi
15:17:45 <rdieter> #info lupinix present
15:17:51 <heliocastro> For some reason is acceptable call bullshit, or complain with everything in a worse manner possible
15:18:56 <rdieter> so, some things to start with to foster/encourage healthy dialog:
15:19:00 <heliocastro> question is how to control this untils become endemic and then we're simply start to loose persons because of it
15:19:25 <rdieter> 1.  add links/references to fedora code of conduct in channel /topic and mailing list footer
15:20:04 <rdieter> 2. in conjunction with 1 (list), send explicit message reminding everyone of behavior expectations
15:21:11 <rdieter> then start enforcing things a bit more strictly, perhaps as strong as: 1 warning, after that, get moderated/quiet/banned (for awhile)
15:21:43 <rdieter> any other ideas or suggestions?
15:22:19 <lupinix> what do you mean by "awhile"?
15:22:28 <rdieter> maybe even keep this topic recurring for weeking kde-sig meeting for awhile too
15:22:40 <tosky> I guess that a simple usage of the fedora CoC should be the good starting point
15:22:51 <lupinix> for example one week for first time, two weeks for second time, ...
15:23:01 <heliocastro> Yes, but should we enforce it ?
15:23:06 <rdieter> lupinix: good question.  I was thinking on the order of days
15:23:23 <heliocastro> Because based on CoC, Kevin would no be around anymore
15:23:55 <rdieter> lupinix: it doesn't have to be specific, but may be worth being flexible, so the punishment fits the crime a bit better
15:23:58 <heliocastro> And this clearly says that doing nothing, we're giving the wrong message of blank card to do anything
15:25:07 <heliocastro> At the moment that we adopt the CoC for good, then this becomes valid to everyone
15:25:11 <rdieter> heliocastro: <nod>, some repeat offenders push the boundaries of the CoC quite a bit.
15:25:46 <rdieter> and I've spoke with several people in private on multiple occasions, which seems to help for awhile, but then they often go back to bad habits
15:27:07 <rdieter> we as a group can decide more drastic measures, in our ongoing discussions over the coming weeks too
15:27:53 <rdieter> I can do items 1 and 2 I mentioned above after meeting
15:28:12 <heliocastro> Yep, baby steps
15:28:41 <rdieter> my irc fu isn't very strong, but I do know to enforce this kind of thing in irc, you need be a channel op
15:29:13 <rdieter> I think I am, and... ironically Kevin is (still), but now that he's no longer a kde-sig member, we can consider removing it
15:29:19 <rdieter> but my point is, we may need more ops
15:29:37 <tosky> how does it work with official fedora IRC channels? In upstream KDE there is a group of people with superaccess to all #kde-something channels
15:29:41 <tosky> (in case you need to ask)
15:29:51 <heliocastro> We need someone on the european timezone
15:30:20 <heliocastro> I'm taking myself out to avoid conflicts of interest
15:30:56 <heliocastro> To not allow anyone says that i raised th topic with post intentions
15:31:36 * lupinix is @timezone Europe/Berlin, but to be honest he is not reading irc all time
15:32:05 <rdieter> tosky: good question, I *think* there are a select few fedora folks with op in most channels, but I'm not sure we can rely on that group here
15:32:36 <rdieter> I think #fedora is handled by it's own group
15:33:01 <rdieter> maybe we can ask their help (fedora irc sig)
15:33:17 <rdieter> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IRC_support_sig
15:33:37 <rdieter> even if not direct help, advice at least
15:33:39 <lupinix> btw how many "bad" people do we have?
15:34:09 <rdieter> lupinix: personally, I think I can count them with fingers of one hand, so relatively small number
15:34:14 * than is present
15:34:19 <rdieter> #info than present
15:34:21 <heliocastro> Not much, but is not passing a day that i enter on irc and see someone new
15:34:22 <fenrus02> rdieter, i'm not sure how to assist, but pop into -ops later and maybe a few can weigh in on some ideas.
15:34:22 <rdieter> #chair than
15:34:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: heliocastro jgrulich rdieter than tosky
15:34:47 <rdieter> fenrus02: thanks, I'll try
15:34:57 <rdieter> fenrus02: probably mostly for advice for now
15:36:40 <rdieter> lupinix: given the small number, maybe this won't be too difficult to manage
15:36:45 <rdieter> *fingers crossed*
15:37:13 <rdieter> anything else on the topic before moving on?
15:38:20 <rdieter> I guess item 3 that we can call on everyone:  if you experience or see bad behavior, call it out.  or contact kde-sig to do it
15:38:41 <tosky> revisit the CoC and see how/when it applies
15:39:22 <rdieter> <nod>
15:39:35 <rdieter> tosky: revisit now?  or maybe do so after a week or 2?
15:39:38 <heliocastro> Yeah, is a goot approach
15:40:08 <tosky> rdieter: no, I mean, everyone of us should reread it
15:40:12 <tosky> have it fresh
15:40:18 <tosky> me first
15:40:21 <rdieter> tosky: ah, :)  +1
15:40:26 <heliocastro> +1
15:40:37 <rdieter> https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct
15:40:40 <rdieter> reference ^^
15:41:55 <heliocastro> Humm, what code of conduct not mention is what to do if is not respected
15:42:20 <rdieter> heliocastro: nod, it was written without enforcement on purpose
15:42:31 <heliocastro> Yes, i would do the same
15:42:34 <rdieter> that's up to governance bodies, like us and fedora council to do
15:43:10 <rdieter> actually, there may be a separate document on that, but I may be imagining
15:44:05 <rdieter> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group/CoC_Enforcement
15:44:14 <rdieter> yay, not a figment of my imagination
15:45:14 <rdieter> I'll make sure to link both in the mail I send
15:45:33 <rdieter> anything else?
15:45:35 <rdieter> move on?
15:45:43 <heliocastro> move on
15:45:49 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
15:46:00 <rdieter> I think that's all we had on agenda, anything else to discuss?
15:46:09 <heliocastro> plans for keep 5.6.0 on epel ?
15:46:11 <heliocastro> as lts ?
15:46:21 <heliocastro> 5.6.x actually
15:46:37 <rdieter> heliocastro: good question, I'd say yes (at least initially)
15:46:49 <rdieter> *especially* for epel-6
15:47:18 <rdieter> we can re-evaluate epel-7 when/if we get kf5 stuff there
15:47:20 <heliocastro> And kde, port to epel as well ?
15:47:25 <heliocastro> Yep, that
15:47:39 <rdieter> heliocastro: plasma5 for epel-7 will probably have to be copr-only
15:47:54 <rdieter> since it replaces plasma4 desktop
15:47:54 <heliocastro> for epel 6 as well
15:48:17 <rdieter> I'd venture el6 may be too old to even consider
15:48:24 <heliocastro> ok
15:48:27 <rdieter> (and be a *lot* of work)
15:48:38 <rdieter> epel-7 is going to be bad enough by itself plasma-wise
15:50:14 <rdieter> oh, just remembered, so ... just a thought, since apper has been not that great for awhile now, and there's no sign of it getting better, thoughts on not including it on kde spin on f24 ?
15:50:38 <heliocastro> agreed
15:50:56 <lupinix> what is the current state of rawhide builds (images)? are there any current obstacles? asking because i added the plasma based astronomy spin now and requested releng to add it to builds
15:51:19 <rdieter> lupinix: I *think* most issues should be sorted out as of middle of yesterday
15:51:41 <rdieter> at least as far as broken deps affecting the spin is concerned
15:52:17 <rdieter> reminds me: nepomuk (and friends) is gone from rawhide now
15:52:35 <lupinix> nice
15:52:45 <rdieter> I enjoyed orphaning virtuoso-opensource
15:53:20 <rdieter> it deserves a more caring/interested maintainer
15:53:53 <rdieter> in retiring nepomuk, it highlighted a bunch of stuff in the distro that probably should've been retired long-ago
15:54:05 <rdieter> (some plasma4-based packages still exist, for example)
15:55:32 <heliocastro> well, i would love to see every plasma4 kdelibs4 things out of our fedora kde spinblood
15:57:03 <rdieter> heliocastro: we're getting close(r)
15:57:24 <heliocastro> :-P
15:57:25 <rdieter> some major kde4-based things left off the top of my head:  amarok, calligra
15:57:39 <tosky> calligra plan a release before summer, iirc
15:57:42 <tosky> amarok, no idea
15:57:59 <heliocastro> amarok devs keep saying that they are ready, but nobody see the final code
15:58:41 <rdieter> I'm not aware of any viable qt5/kf5-based alternatives to amarok to consider yet, but I'd love to be wrong
15:58:54 <heliocastro> There's not
15:59:04 <heliocastro> vlc interfaces are not even near
15:59:31 <heliocastro> But i'm questioning relevance of amarok on this days
15:59:36 <rdieter> is vls using Qt5 yet?
15:59:38 <rdieter> vlc
15:59:44 <heliocastro> Yes, vlc is qt5
15:59:51 <rdieter> though, not relevant, fedora doesn't ship vlc (rpmfusion does)
15:59:57 <rdieter> vlc on f23 is still qt4
16:00:01 <heliocastro> :-/
16:00:07 <heliocastro> Just because some stubborn people
16:00:29 <tosky> which prevents from using the vlc phonon backend, but yeah, not in fedora
16:00:42 <heliocastro> And we don't have control over  it
16:00:43 <rdieter> vlc phonon backend is @ rpmfusion too
16:01:07 <tosky> just saying (Debian vlc switched to Qt5 quite a while ago)
16:01:11 <heliocastro> Maybe add a note to request vlc on qt5
16:01:26 <rdieter> it's possible to split and bring the free part(s) to fedora, but that'd be fair amount of work
16:01:34 <rdieter> free part(s) of vlc that is
16:01:51 <tosky> s/free/non-patent encumbered/ :)
16:01:54 <tosky> anyway, a possible alternative is clementine
16:02:07 <rdieter> tosky: freely redistributable parts :)
16:02:09 <heliocastro> Nahh, clementine is far to be considered alternative
16:03:00 <rdieter> anyway, we have gstreamer support that works (well), so we haven't had to push very hard for it (yet)
16:04:17 <rdieter> i guess our hour's about over, any last comments before closing the meeting?
16:06:31 <rdieter> ok, thanks everyone!
16:06:35 <rdieter> #endmeeting