17:00:29 #startmeeting F24 Alpha Go/No-Go meeting 17:00:29 Meeting started Thu Mar 17 17:00:29 2016 UTC. The chair is jkurik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:29 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:29 The meeting name has been set to 'f24_alpha_go/no-go_meeting' 17:00:35 stickster: right :-) 17:00:42 .hello pfrields 17:00:43 stickster: pfrields 'Paul W. Frields' 17:00:48 #meetingname F24-Alpha-Go_No_Go-meeting 17:00:48 The meeting name has been set to 'f24-alpha-go_no_go-meeting' 17:00:55 #topic Roll Call 17:01:01 .hello jkurik 17:01:02 jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' 17:01:03 .hello adamwill 17:01:06 adamw: adamwill 'Adam Williamson' 17:01:06 oops, jumped the gun :-) o/ all 17:01:07 .hellomynameis kevin 17:01:09 nirik: kevin 'Kevin Fenzi' 17:01:37 * kparal lurks 17:01:49 so, we need at least someone from QE, FESCo and RelEng 17:01:53 * lbrabec lurks too 17:01:57 I'm here 17:02:08 .hello sgallagh 17:02:09 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 17:02:28 .hello corey84 17:02:29 linuxmodder: corey84 'Corey Sheldon' 17:02:41 dgilmore: hi Dennis, are you with us ? 17:02:41 will be mostly lurking tho 17:03:04 jkurik: kinda 17:03:12 got a meeting I am in 17:03:26 so like 4 lurkers toady :) 17:03:32 #chair dgilmore nirik sgallagh stickster adamw 17:03:32 Current chairs: adamw dgilmore jkurik nirik sgallagh stickster 17:03:43 sgallagh: can you update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Server , if you've run the tests? 17:03:43 Hi everybody 17:04:00 afternoon alll 17:04:11 #topic Purpose of this meeting 17:04:12 #info Purpose of this meeting is to check whether or not F24 Alpha is ready for shipment, according to the release criteria. 17:04:14 #info This is determined in a few ways: 17:04:15 #info No remaining blocker bugs 17:04:17 #info Release candidate compose is available (check https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/ticket/6371 ) 17:04:18 #info Test matrices for Alpha are fully completed 17:04:31 adamw: Short answer is that I've not managed to get many of them done. I hit a blocker early on and spent quite a while unblocking it 17:04:40 (I am also here -- sorry for being late!) 17:04:41 I was hoping someone else would run some of the tests, but no one did 17:04:45 sgallagh: ah, ok :/ sorry, i did not have time either 17:04:50 too busy herding robots 17:04:58 we have RC for the Alpha (thanks dgilmore & adamw) 17:05:03 we can decide what to do about it after we do the mini blocker review, i guess 17:05:11 #link https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/24/alpha/buglist 17:05:12 /me nods 17:05:13 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Installation 17:05:14 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Base 17:05:16 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Desktop 17:05:17 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Server 17:05:19 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Cloud 17:05:20 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Summary 17:05:27 #topic Current status 17:05:38 #info We have several accepted blockers and also several proposed blockers for the Alpha_1.5. 17:05:39 process note there: technically we've decided we kinda don't have 'TCs' and 'RCs' any more. but we can consider any 'candidate' / 'production' compose built after freeze as a potential 'RC'. 17:05:58 adamw: thanks for the correction 17:06:35 #info we do not have RC anymore, however from the formal point of view the Alpha_1.5 compose plays the role of RC for this purpose 17:07:05 Let's start with Mini-blocker review 17:07:19 adamw: may I ask you please to chair the mini-blocker review ? 17:07:54 sure, can do 17:07:57 #topic Mini-Blocker Review 17:08:21 ok, just going through alpha proposed blockers: 17:08:31 #topic (1315494) C.UTF-8 doesn't actually work as a default locale 17:08:31 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1315494 17:08:31 #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW 17:08:46 this one is the one that's been intentionally left in 'proposed' state because it'll bite us if a new anaconda build is needed 17:08:58 So this is still "special". It only applies if we have to take other anaconda fixes, so let's push this to the bottom of the pile. 17:09:01 but it's not a blocker so far as Alpha-1.5 is concerned, because the bug isn't in that build of anaconda 17:09:02 right 17:09:04 And come back if needed. 17:09:27 * nirik nods 17:09:28 #info this bug does not affect Alpha-1.5; it will only affect us if we need a new anaconda build for any other reason. It is on the proposed list for tracking this 17:09:38 #topic (1318615) gnome-initial-setup crashes after choosing a language 17:09:38 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1318615 17:09:38 #info Proposed Blocker, gnome-initial-setup, NEW 17:09:43 oh hey, i didn't even notice this one... 17:10:09 I mentioned this to mclasen___ a short time ago, but it's newly filed so I'm not sure the maintainer's even had a chance to look 17:10:18 so this is kind of a conditional blocker, i guess 17:10:35 the conditions are: don't create a user in anaconda, and then need/want to change language in gnome-initial-setup 17:11:24 I think the phrasing we chose for this criterion was basically that at least one of those two user-creation mechanisms must work 17:12:00 yeah. 17:12:03 well...yeah, but this is kind of a different case 17:12:04 "using a user account created during installation or a 'first boot' utility." 17:12:19 So if it works by actually using Anaconda user-creation, I'm in favor of noting this as "Hey, it's an Alpha", personally 17:12:38 i think i'm -1 for alpha on the grounds that it's not going to be common enough, though 17:12:47 sgallagh: +1, I am sharing the same POV 17:13:03 yeah, -1 if the other path works 17:13:32 adamw: Do we know if the other path works properly? 17:13:40 * stickster is not voting but agrees with both adamw + sgallagh 17:14:03 stickster: Why aren't you voting? Blocker bug review is open to all 17:14:24 sgallagh: the bug says it does. 17:14:58 right, blocker bug votes are accepted from all then weighted according to a highly complex, pseudo-intelligent system known as 'me' 17:15:12 sounds like that's several -1s 17:15:21 adamw: The bug says it works if the user doesn't change the language. 17:15:37 It doesn't explicitly state whether it boots if the user changes langs and uses Anaconda to create the user. 17:15:39 sgallagh: In that case, -1 for Alpha. I wasn't sure I played more than advisory/informed role here. 17:15:52 Anyway, -1 17:15:52 sgallagh: step 1 quite strongly implies that, though. anyhow, we've no information it doesn't work. 17:16:53 proposed #agreed 1318615 - RejectedBlocker (Alpha) - this bug only occurs in a quite specific situation (user not created in anaconda, language changed in g-i-s) and we agreed this is not a broad enough impact to constitute an Alpha blocker 17:16:59 ack 17:17:02 ack 17:17:05 ack 17:17:11 #agreed 1318615 - RejectedBlocker (Alpha) - this bug only occurs in a quite specific situation (user not created in anaconda, language changed in g-i-s) and we agreed this is not a broad enough impact to constitute an Alpha blocker 17:17:40 #topic (1318541) Cannot unlock KDE desktop 17:17:40 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1318541 17:17:40 #info Proposed Blocker, plasma-desktop, NEW 17:17:57 hmm, so i'm actually in the middle of re-testing this now 17:18:07 i just tried it again, creating user in anaconda this time, and i still get the bug 17:18:34 hmm 17:18:51 weird. 17:19:02 adamw: Wait, are you still discussing the previous one? 17:19:07 no, i'm discussing this one. 17:19:21 sorry meeting is over 17:19:22 we thought it might only happen if the user account was created in initial-setup, since rdieter tried to reproduce and couldn't 17:19:39 there is a work around (all be it gross) 17:19:58 http://paste.fedoraproject.org/341728/82351411 17:20:03 yeah, the workaround is pretty awful. 17:20:16 that's my journalctl, it looks like kscreenlocker_greet crashes 17:21:28 hi rdieter 17:21:30 adamw: Speaking of your criterion citation in the bug... How many minutes would need to elapse to be considered "working"? 17:21:30 yo 17:21:33 sddm-greeter also seems to crash? 17:21:45 adamw: It *does* display the error and workaround to the user, yes? 17:21:51 stickster: i dunno, but five or ten or whatever the screen lock timeout seems to be seems rather short. 17:21:59 sgallagh: only after you try to unlock several times 17:22:19 and you'd have to do the workaround every time the screen locked, i guess 17:22:25 adamw: Right, but my point is that the user is at least informed of a way to get around it. Ugly though it is 17:22:29 * stickster isn't disputing this could arguably pass criteria to block, to be fair 17:22:42 so long as they keep trying to unlock rather than just giving up and saying "screw this", yes. 17:22:49 (which is a nice change of pace from most bugs) 17:23:27 rdieter: so i reinstalled with user creation in anaconda, and still hit the bug 17:23:35 ok, boo 17:23:41 rdieter: http://paste.fedoraproject.org/341728/82351411 is my journal, it shows kscreenlocker_greet crashing 17:24:00 could it be related to spice/vm somehow? did you not see it on bare metal rdieter ? 17:24:03 rdieter: did you make the user an admin or not? did you wait for the screen to lock automatically due to inactivity, or did you lock it manually? 17:24:04 possible to get any backtraces? 17:24:17 adamw: I was admin, locked manually 17:24:22 rdieter: abrt-cli is saying they're not valid problem directories, i guess drkonqi or whatever is interfering, but i can see if i have any manually 17:24:28 rdieter: maybe one of those affects it... 17:24:38 adamw: ok, I can try other cases 17:24:46 * adamw can try on bare metal and twiddle a bit if we want to move on and come back later... 17:24:57 I suspect this will be difficult to diagnose/debug crashes without backtraces 17:25:23 there's a coredump in the abrt dir so i can probably get one manually, but it'll take a bit of time 17:26:20 so what do we think? anyone wanna vote either way definitely, or would you rather we poke it a bit more? 17:26:43 I am +1 for a blocker here 17:26:46 if you figure this is OK for alpha even assuming it always happens, you can vote -1 now i guess, extra info won't change your mind 17:26:50 I'm a very weak -1 since there's a workaround 17:27:12 * adamw kinda hates the 'there's a workaround' trend. i mean, there's almost always a goddamn workaround. 17:27:13 bare metal vs vm wouldn't help much, I think many people use vm's for alphas... 17:27:26 rdieter: did you test on vm or metal, btw? 17:27:26 didn't mean to be trendy. :) 17:27:29 =) 17:27:31 metal for me 17:27:35 also, can hopefully be fixed soon in updates? 17:27:42 it just seems like we've been waving the 'there's a workaround' card at a lot of blockers for the last few releases 17:27:49 nirik: given debuging/backtraces, ideally yes, it should be fixable 17:28:04 adamw: true. 17:28:19 nirik: well, that's kind of a problem because mostly people do KDE installs from live, i think, so even if we fix it with an update, you'd have to do your updates right after install to avoid hitting the bug 17:28:21 adamw: workaround too *for alpha*, disable screenlocker 17:28:31 adamw: True, but I think that also needs to be weighed against the population of Alpha testing users 17:29:00 I'm ok with considering it a blocker for now (assuming the worst), until it's better understood 17:29:01 * adamw watches debuginfo packages install 17:29:03 well, we don't really know that tho 17:29:25 rdieter: Well, this is Go/No-Go, so if we rule it a blocker, it also definitely means a slip. 17:29:27 rdieter: just to get you up to speed - if we accept this as a blocker we're basically slipping, which is why there's a 'discussion' 17:29:32 snap 17:29:35 I do think alpha using people would be more likely to look at common bugs, etc than later. but meh 17:29:35 That being said, I'm inclined to say +1 blocker here 17:29:36 heh 17:29:38 ah, k 17:29:44 nirik: Yeah, that was my point 17:29:59 rdieter: "At least 2923MB more space needed on the / filesystem'. whee. guess i get to reinstall with a bigger disk 17:29:59 or rather, the point I was trying to make :-) 17:30:18 adamw: can you try and submit with abrt-cli ? 17:30:19 ok, how bout this, let's leave this for now and me and rdieter can poke it a bit and everyone can think about it, let's move onto the other hot topic 17:30:24 adamw: Jeepers, that's a lot of debuginfo 17:30:25 ok, consider me officially ok with not blocking *just* for this 17:30:27 adamw: +1 17:30:30 nirik: see above, abrt-cli considers it not a valid problem directory for some reason. 17:31:04 rdieter: That's the definition of a non-blocker. 17:31:08 #agreed 1318541 - short-term punt - we will circle back to this later in the meeting, it's still under investigation, let's discuss the other hot topic bug while that's happening 17:31:34 ack sure 17:31:41 *nod 17:31:45 for the record: we have two accepted blockers, one of them is easy, it's already VERIFIED and appears fixed in Alpha-1.1 and Alpha-1.5, nothing to discuss there 17:31:49 the other accepted blocker is more interesting 17:31:54 #topic (1317721) cockpit.socket not enabled automatically on Fedora Server installs 17:31:54 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1317721 17:31:54 #info Accepted Blocker, fedora-release, POST 17:32:24 so the initial bug sgallagh found was indeed fixed in Alpha-1.5, but turns out that wasn't enough to fix things entirely 17:32:38 so in Alpha-1.5, cockpit is still not working out of the box, which is a clear violation of the criteria 17:32:57 yeah, this one kind of seals the fate, it seems 17:32:59 the 'workaround' for this is easy (start cockpit.service manually), *so long as you're in a position to do that* 17:33:06 (also, I'll add that the same bug prevented rolekit from working out of the box as well) 17:33:22 adamw: You can just turn it on from the Cockpit UI... oh wait 17:33:29 *snort 17:33:42 i'm gonna be a stickler and say +1. the criterion says this has to work, no workarounds. we wrote that in there, we should stick to it. 17:33:42 well, there's a workaround... 17:33:44 Yeah, I think this remains a clear blocker 17:33:48 +1 blocker yeah 17:33:50 * adamw chases nirik with a big stick 17:33:53 +1 blocker 17:33:55 +1 blocker, regretfully 17:34:07 /me notes that a patch that fixes it is already out in a PR, but it will require a respin 17:34:44 +1 for blocker 17:34:45 proposed #agreed 1317721 - remains AcceptedBlocker (Alpha) - this was not entirely fixed in Alpha-1.5 and we still consider it to be a clear release blocker 17:34:51 ack 17:34:53 ack 17:35:02 ack 17:35:04 adamw asked me earlier if I wanted to push for heroics on this. I am against it. We should slip and do proper testing 17:35:06 ack 17:35:21 yeah, getting too old for the heroics. ;) 17:35:24 #agreed 1317721 - remains AcceptedBlocker (Alpha) - this was not entirely fixed in Alpha-1.5 and we still consider it to be a clear release blocker 17:35:41 ok, circling back to the KDE one: 17:35:46 #topic (1318541) Cannot unlock KDE desktop 17:35:47 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1318541 17:35:47 #info Proposed Blocker, plasma-desktop, NEW 17:36:05 so with the cockpit decision i think making an immediate decision on this becomes less important 17:36:08 I'm a solid +1 FE on this one and a weak +1 blocker 17:36:23 yeah. +1 FE -0.5 blocker 17:36:29 I am still +1 to block on this 17:36:45 +1 blocker 17:36:48 so assuming we're not going to attempt any kind of heroics, we can punt this to monday's blocker review meeting and collect a bit more data? 17:36:49 Not immediate but I'm +1 FE, -1 blocker. 17:37:02 since we're kinda split on it that seems like the best idea 17:37:22 sounds reasonable 17:37:27 Works for me 17:37:28 *nod 17:37:29 there's a lot not known yet. 17:38:09 adamw: I think we can hand over an FE right now though 17:38:16 In case a fix happens quickly, then at least it can land 17:38:17 point 17:38:20 * adamw edits his proposal... 17:38:36 sure, would definitely be good to fix. 17:38:37 * stickster is not pitching any heroics. If someone wanted to provide them, I wouldn't want the plasma issue to block. If not, the extra week will probably obviate this bug anyway. 17:38:42 proposed #agreed 1318541 - AcceptedFreezeException (Alpha), punt (delay decision) on Blocker status till next regular blocker meeting - there's still a lot of data to gather here, we should have a clearer picture of the bug by Monday and we do not need to make a decision immediately 17:38:57 ack 17:39:00 ack 17:39:00 ack 17:39:05 #agreed 1318541 - AcceptedFreezeException (Alpha), punt (delay decision) on Blocker status till next regular blocker meeting - there's still a lot of data to gather here, we should have a clearer picture of the bug by Monday and we do not need to make a decision immediately 17:39:06 ack 17:39:15 ack 17:39:16 ok, I believe that's it for mini blocker review, or did I miss anything? 17:39:28 i will do the secretarialization later 17:39:34 adamw: thanks a lot 17:40:06 so, as it seems like we need to slip, does it make sense to go through Test Matrices coverage ? 17:40:19 not really. 17:40:21 well, quickly for the record - we have pretty solid coverage for everything except Server 17:40:29 *sad trombone* 17:40:33 ok 17:40:36 sgallagh was too busy fighting the bugs we already discovered to complete the testing, and I was too busy wrestling robots 17:40:47 #topic Test Matrices coverage 17:40:47 we'll definitely get through the rest of the tests asap to find any other lurking blockers 17:40:55 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_24_Alpha_1.5_Summary 17:41:13 #link https://www.happyassassin.net/testcase_stats/24/ 17:41:36 Yeah, I can run the rest of the tests this afternoon with a few manual tweaks to get the services starting properly. 17:42:59 #info coverage is good except for Server, we will fill that out ASAP 17:43:33 * satellit_e Concernrd tha soas is missing in 1.5 but worked fine in 1.1 17:44:43 I quickly scaned the Test Matrice and as far as I can see, it seems to be more/less OK 17:45:15 anything we need to express here ? (except the missing Server) 17:46:11 satellit_e: it looks like it hit a anaconda/blivet/livemedia-creator bug... I've seen it in the past, and it's sporadic... not sure if there is a bug, but we should file one if not. 17:46:25 k 17:46:42 jkurik: nope, other than that all alpha tests are covered i think, except SAS install which at this point i leave on there as an in-joke :P 17:47:07 nirik: live image creation has been quite churn-y the last few days, if you look at the compose check emails, lots of images appearing and disappearing 17:47:21 not sure if it's the new lorax which fails the image compose when it hits the bug that renders the image uninstallable 17:48:36 Not sure. This is https://paste.fedoraproject.org/341746/36837145/ at the end of livemedia-creator... 17:49:22 anyhow, infra meeting in about 10min... shall we wrap this up? ;) 17:49:37 ok, so lets move on to the funny part 17:49:55 #topic Go/No-Go decision 17:50:44 as dicussed during the mini-blocker review, we agreed to slip, right ? 17:51:09 yup, QA votes no-go as there are outstanding unaddressed blockers (and Server test coverage is not complete, though if there were no blockers we could likely fudge that) 17:51:10 yep. we have unfixed known blockers. 17:51:15 however the next week there are Easterns (at least in Europe) and many people might be on leave 17:51:51 even so, I would propose to slip for one week only and hope we are fine 17:51:52 correct, USA for instance is out Fri 2016-03-25 17:52:26 Question: I'm running the remaining Server tests. If there are indeed no additional blockers found, would we want to retest just the presets fix and Go tomorrow? 17:52:59 we need another compose at least right? 17:53:00 hmm... it means we will not have time to push bits to mirrors etc... 17:53:05 (an answer of "hell no" is perfectly valid) 17:53:20 /me is not asking anyone else to run heroics. 17:53:37 sgallagh: considering the Easterns the next week, I will incline to do so 17:53:42 well, then we also have the kde lockscreen thing... 17:53:56 well, but then the KDE bug becomes significant again 17:53:56 right. 17:54:44 * nirik is personally fine with 1 week slip as normal. If peopel want to do heroics ok... but I thought we didn't want to. 17:55:31 dgilmore: if we slip for one week only, will releng be able to push bits live during the Easterns ? 17:55:33 i don't have any particular appetite for heroics, especially since we're still fairly new on the pungi4 compose process. 17:55:35 * stickster is OK with that as well, I refuse to request heroics 17:56:12 I'm mostly asking because as best I can tell, the only one doing heroics would be me. 17:56:42 sgallagh: releng would also have to babysit the compose to make sure it went OK 17:56:46 True 17:56:48 well, releng would need to do another compose... and we would need to sort the kde lockscreen thing. 17:56:57 and QA at least likes to do default-boot-and-install sanity checks on every new compose, regardless whether 'nothing changed'; 17:57:14 OK, so it sounds like it's really not worth it this time around. 17:58:26 * nirik nods. 17:58:43 dgilmore seems to be idle now, however I am not sure it is wise to push bits out during Esterns 17:59:21 on the other hand slipping for two weeks ... I do not like this idea 17:59:22 /me rescinds the offer, so we can stop discussing it :) 17:59:32 well, I think once we stage things, syncs are mostly automagic from there... 17:59:46 we could try moving the go/no-go up a day? to wed? 17:59:54 and stage bits thursday 18:00:01 (provided we are go) 18:00:27 fine by me 18:00:36 INFO: anyone looking for the infrastructure meeting, we are almost done with this meeting I hope, if not we can go to #fedora-meeting-1 18:01:26 proposal: slip 1 week, but next go/no-go meeting on 2016-03-23 at this same time. 18:01:27 Fine with me as well 18:01:33 +1 18:01:34 +1 18:01:35 jkurik: work for you? 18:01:48 yes, I am fine with it 18:02:00 cool. 18:02:19 +1 slip and meeting. 18:02:41 proposed #agreed Fedora 24 Alpha release slips. The next Go/NoGo meeting is going to be planned on March 23rd. 18:02:50 ack 18:03:35 ack 18:04:19 ack 18:04:19 adamw, dgilmore ? 18:04:22 ok, we done? ;) 18:04:24 ack 18:04:30 #agreed Fedora 24 Alpha release slips. The next Go/NoGo meeting is going to be planned on March 23rd. 18:04:43 #action jkurik to publish the Go/No-Go result 18:05:08 thanks every one for comming 18:05:16 #endmeeting