14:11:57 <randomuser> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:11:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 21 14:11:57 2016 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:11:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:11:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs_project_meeting_-_agenda:_https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/docs_project_meetings'
14:11:57 <randomuser> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:11:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:11:59 <randomuser> #topic Roll Call
14:12:12 <grundblom> here
14:13:09 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:13:14 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
14:13:39 * Capesteve waves
14:16:03 * d0nn1e here
14:17:09 * grundblom here
14:17:20 <masetrax> .hello masetrax
14:17:22 <zodbot> masetrax: masetrax 'Ryan Mason' <masetrax1@gmail.com>
14:18:07 * pbokoc 
14:19:25 <randomuser> Hey masetrax, glad you made it!
14:19:39 <randomuser> #topic Follow up on action items
14:19:54 <randomuser> I was tempted to skip this topic, I didn't do mine :/
14:19:56 * pbokoc cleaned up beats wiki pages
14:20:02 <randomuser> thanks, pbokoc
14:20:05 <pbokoc> I did stuff! Yay me!
14:20:34 <randomuser> #info randomuser to send emails about beats
14:20:39 <randomuser> uhm
14:20:46 <randomuser> #undo
14:20:47 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by randomuser at 14:20:34 : randomuser to send emails about beats
14:20:54 <randomuser> #action randomuser to send emails about beats
14:21:36 <randomuser> oh, I did update the gsoc pitch
14:21:56 <pbokoc> also I added asterisks to everyone's names in the main table, so if you're interested in taking a beat, add your name to it or remove the asterisk again to indicate you're on it
14:21:59 <pbokoc> this table, I mean: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats
14:22:58 <d0nn1e> looks neat
14:23:20 <pbokoc> d0nn1e, well, don't look at the source :))
14:23:41 <grundblom> pbokoc, thank you
14:23:55 <grundblom> I was getting confused if I missed something, maybe a workflow change
14:23:57 <masetrax> randomuser: holidays from work - no early mornings!
14:24:14 <randomuser> #topic New Writers
14:24:48 <randomuser> This part of the meeting is for intros, questions, reports from and of new writers
14:25:06 <randomuser> masetrax, that's you :)
14:27:05 <masetrax> Haha. No questions as of yet; I still need to get stuck into reading about DocBook. pbokoc gave me a warm welcome and pointed me in the right direction regarding this a few days ago. I've started doing a little bit of Wiki gardening as part of the CommOps team, trying to polish up on my writing chops.
14:27:05 <randomuser> or if you don't have questions at the moment, we don't have to put you on the spot
14:27:35 <randomuser> Any particular area of interest?
14:29:15 <masetrax> I haven't identified any as of yet. My experience so far is largely desktop based - just the usual installation and configuration of everyday applications. I am looking to change this as I go
14:29:33 * randomuser nods
14:29:57 <randomuser> that's cool - there's got to be a ton of desktop things people don't know how to do yet :)
14:30:14 <randomuser> We're around, keep in touch!
14:31:03 <masetrax> Well I seem to be forever tinkering with things, so will document my adventures. And will do!
14:31:20 <pbokoc> we could probably use some docs on actual desktop applications packaged in Fedora repos - most of what we document now is stuff like webservers and SELinux that most people don't come into contact with at all
14:31:34 <randomuser> #topic Release Notes
14:32:07 <randomuser> So, we have relnotes to do
14:32:27 <randomuser> the typical strategy is to visit the beats table,  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats
14:32:40 <masetrax> pbokoc: If you can provide an example or two, I can run with. Query me if you think of anything, will let meeting continue..
14:33:02 <randomuser> find an unclaimed beat, then discover all relevant changes, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/24/ChangeSet
14:33:06 <randomuser> and write about them
14:33:12 <grundblom> about release notes: I think I got too verbose in the ones I did for F23
14:33:31 <randomuser> then, go back over it and find more unwritten stuff that was not covered by a change
14:34:49 <randomuser> first round is on the wiki, so everyone can participate easily, and it gets converted to docbook at the end
14:36:10 <randomuser> grundblom, I wouldn't worry about it; relnotes can be technical, it's the announcement that gets short and buzzwordy
14:36:29 <pbokoc> grundblom, what do you mean? I don't see anything particularly verbose in the published F23 version except possibly the Perl 5.22 bit
14:37:12 <d0nn1e> taking a look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_workflow_-_beat_writing , probably a good place for masetrax to look too since we're kinda in the same boat
14:37:35 <masetrax> Checking it now d0nn1e :)
14:37:59 <randomuser> perl is always that way
14:38:21 <bexelbie> That is because perl is awesome
14:38:33 <bexelbie> as are all things perl, such as Minnie Pearl
14:38:53 <randomuser> oh hey
14:38:56 <pbokoc> sure, but these lists could have been a link to cpan.org - which I think is the original source of that info anyway
14:39:01 <randomuser> #chair bexelbie pbokoc pkovar
14:39:01 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie pbokoc pkovar randomuser
14:39:24 <randomuser> that too
14:39:45 <pbokoc> but hey, at least it looks like we have more content in there :)
14:39:58 <grundblom> randomuser, pbokoc, there was a message on the email list about someone translating the release notes and mentioned how rather long they were, so I was thinking of making them a little shorter to help with people doing the translations
14:40:02 * bexelbie prepares to read "Green Eggs and Ham" into the Release Notes
14:41:06 <randomuser> We should also get folks assigned  talking to the deliverable publishing groups
14:41:36 <pbokoc> grundblom, ah, right, I think I saw that. Well, as I'm saying - if you're writing about some upstream changes being pulled into Fedora, something that has its own release notes, you can just write "We upgraded foo to version x.y, see the [upstream release notes](link) for details"
14:41:58 <randomuser> #info Cloud, server, workstation - if anyone has an interest in changes/function of one of our default deliverables, take one of those beatgs
14:42:35 <randomuser> pbokoc, and also read the upstream changes, making a considered decision about whether they're worth sharing or simply referring to
14:42:51 <grundblom> pbokoc, understood, I will do that more instead of re-wording their notes into ours
14:43:13 <grundblom> randomuser, Oh, ok, well I will try to blend both then..
14:44:03 <randomuser> yay, relnotes.  We've got a lot of work to do.
14:44:06 <pbokoc> yeah, a bit of both works best. If you're familiar with the subject enough to be able to identify what the most important changes are, highlight them in our notes, and link upstream for additional/full info
14:44:34 <randomuser> if you're not familiar enough, it's probably best to contact the listed SME, or find one to be listed and then contact them
14:45:20 <randomuser> #topic Publishing
14:45:57 <randomuser> so hey, we have some needs in the area of what gets our content to users' computers
14:46:29 <randomuser> this area of discussion has not been especially fruitful
14:47:35 <grundblom> randomuser, I dont understand... you mean our docs content?
14:47:45 <bexelbie> I have yet another meeting where a project is looking at combining multiple formats of docs into a buildable and deployable site -- I'll bring back any good ideas :)
14:47:46 <d0nn1e> randomuser, are you talking about bundling documents into fedora 24 itself, like man pages?
14:47:48 <randomuser> I think that those of us who have a strong interest in the situation, and cycles to improve it, should maybe get together in a room
14:48:06 <bexelbie> +1 for a FAD for engineering this if we don't do it at Flock
14:48:26 <randomuser> grundblom, d0nn1e - I'm talking about publishing to docs.fedoraproject.org
14:48:38 <d0nn1e> ah
14:48:53 <d0nn1e> sorry
14:50:23 <grundblom> randomuser, gotcha!
14:50:32 <randomuser> ok, we're on the same page then :)
14:50:43 <grundblom> gotta go, next meeting is across campus, Take care everyone!
14:50:51 * grundblom waves
14:51:05 <d0nn1e> l8r grundblom
14:51:10 <randomuser> I've talked to a few folks in #docs-publishers about it, and will move that to logistics this weel
14:51:14 <randomuser> WEEK.
14:51:33 <randomuser> In the meantime, if you have solutions, jump in!
14:52:22 <pkovar> btw, is #docs-publishers a fedora group?
14:52:32 <randomuser> whoops
14:52:40 <bexelbie> randomuser, yeah ... what is that?
14:52:52 <randomuser> I meant to to @docs-publishers - yes, it is, and gives you ACLs on web.git
14:52:54 <pkovar> the name sounds interesting :)
14:53:01 <pkovar> i see
14:53:27 <randomuser> that includes you, pkovar :P
14:53:29 <bexelbie> so how do they relate to this group?
14:53:36 <pkovar> right :)
14:54:02 <bexelbie> as I thought we were discussing ideas, albeit slowly, here
14:54:41 <randomuser> bexelbie, caffeine levels are low, I'm having trouble parsing your question
14:55:19 <bexelbie> randomuser, what is hte discussion in @docs-publishers about relative to the way fedora-docs get published?
14:55:27 <bexelbie> are they writing a new system to take our output and put it on the web?
14:55:31 <bexelbie> I thought we were doing so
14:55:34 <bexelbie> albeit slowly
14:55:37 <randomuser> bexelbie, we are they
14:55:45 <bexelbie> I was not aware that we were they
14:55:46 <bexelbie> :)
14:55:51 * bexelbie wonders if he is them
14:56:02 <bexelbie> was I in this conversation?
14:56:05 <randomuser> yes, it's a FAS group.  You are or should be
14:56:08 * bexelbie just drank caffeine and is now very worried
14:56:19 <bexelbie> ignoring the FAS group .. where was the convo?
14:56:22 <randomuser> bexelbie, calm down, you haven't missed anything
14:56:23 <d0nn1e> bexelbie, by chance are you confusing an FAS group with this IRC channel?
14:56:53 <d0nn1e> I mean the #fedora-docs IRC channel?
14:56:58 * bexelbie is actually very calm :)
14:57:02 <randomuser> :)
14:57:32 * bexelbie pantomimes Dr. Banner, "You don't want to see me angry"
14:57:43 <randomuser> there were some out of band emails like "do you think it could be useful, productive, and within your schedule to do a FAD"
14:58:10 <randomuser> responses were positive, so I'm going for the next step of that process
14:58:52 <randomuser> #topic Open Floor
14:59:00 <bexelbie> randomuser, ahh cool beans
14:59:10 <randomuser> we can talk about that more in -docs, but now, one minute of free chatter! enjoy!
14:59:14 <bexelbie> and I know think I remember some of that out of band commentary :)
14:59:26 * bexelbie must not be firing on all cylinders today
14:59:38 <bexelbie> if it is what I think it is, I am happy to be part of a FAD if my presence is helpful
14:59:53 <bexelbie> I will also still work on finishing hte flock concepts
15:00:12 <randomuser> bexelbie, it would be good to tie the two together
15:00:26 <randomuser> and with that, times up, another meeting is looming
15:00:30 <randomuser> see you around, everyone
15:00:34 <randomuser> #endmeeting