06:00:51 <pravins> #startmeeting i18n 06:00:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 20 06:00:51 2016 UTC. The chair is pravins. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 06:00:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 06:00:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n' 06:00:52 <pravins> #meetingname i18n 06:00:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n' 06:00:52 <pravins> #topic agenda and roll call 06:00:52 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2016-07-20 06:01:04 <mfabian> Hi! 06:01:05 <suanand> hi.. 06:01:20 <pravins> hi mfabian suanand :) 06:01:23 <pravins> #chair mfabian suanand 06:01:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: mfabian pravins suanand 06:01:26 <epico> hi 06:01:27 <fujiwarat> hi 06:01:32 <pravins> hi epico fujiwarat :) 06:01:36 <pravins> #chair epico fujiwarat 06:01:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico fujiwarat mfabian pravins suanand 06:02:07 <paragan> hi 06:02:07 <juhp> hi 06:02:12 <pravins> hi paragan juhp :) 06:02:15 <pravins> #chair paragan juhp 06:02:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand 06:02:23 <pravins> lets see upcoming schedule 06:02:34 <pravins> #topic Upcoming schedule 06:02:35 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule 06:02:35 <pravins> #info 2016-07-26 Branch Fedora 25 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F26) 06:02:36 <pravins> #info 2016-07-26 Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable) 06:02:38 <pravins> #info 2016-08-09 Alpha Freeze (*) 06:02:40 <pravins> #info 2016-08-09 Software String Freeze 06:02:59 <pravins> hmm Change completion deadline is very near. 06:03:07 <pravins> This is for system-wide change though 06:03:53 <pravins> i think for self contained change we can have some more time. 06:04:09 <paragan> yes so all system wide changes bug tracker also need to set modified when they are testable in F25 06:04:09 <pravins> lets move to that topic itself :) 06:04:33 <pravins> paragan: aha, good point. So just one week from now. 06:04:35 <pravins> #topic #64: Fedora 25 planning (pravins) 06:04:36 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/64 06:04:46 <pravins> lets go through all our planned proposals. 06:05:31 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unicode_9.0 06:05:50 <pravins> mfabian: hi, i am seeing few more components are getting added to our change proposal. 06:06:13 <mfabian> Yesa, I saw it as well. 06:06:23 <mfabian> One about gucharmap. 06:06:30 <pravins> right. i think its fine. 06:06:47 <juhp> paragan: MODIFIED? 06:06:49 <pravins> Rather good since gradually we are understanding what all things need to be update for particular Unicode release. 06:07:34 <juhp> cool 06:07:47 <paragan> juhp, don't we need to set Change bugzilla to MODIFIED to note that Change is testable and built in Fedora 25? 06:08:21 <juhp> paragan: I was asking/confirming you :) 06:08:33 <pravins> :) 06:08:45 <pravins> mfabian: do you think we will able to build glibc with Unicode update by 27th? 06:08:59 <mfabian> You mean in rawhide? 06:09:13 <mfabian> pravins: I did it already in rawhide. 06:09:21 <pravins> oops, i missed it. 06:09:24 <pravins> mfabian++ 06:09:24 <zodbot> pravins: Karma for mfabian changed to 3 (for the f24 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 06:09:40 <mfabian> Maybe I should write something in the wiki ... 06:09:48 <pravins> would you like to add that build to Bugzilla. 06:09:54 <pravins> right, on bugzilla as well. 06:10:16 <pravins> Change proposal once we should consider as a tracker and create package specific bugzillas 06:10:21 <pravins> s/once/one 06:10:30 <pravins> do we have any bug open against Glibc? 06:10:36 <pravins> for Unicode 9.0 06:11:04 <mfabian> pravins: no specific bug for glibc, only the tracker bug for the change proposal at the moment. 06:11:19 <pravins> #info Glibc with Unicode 9.0 is already build for Rawhide 06:11:46 <pravins> i think good to have glibc specific bugzilla, since we might need more bugs for different packages like gucharmap, ucd, libicu 06:11:58 <pravins> mfabian: would you like to open bugs for it? 06:12:54 <anish_> hi 06:12:56 <pravins> #info Unicode 9.0 change is also accepted by FeSCo 06:12:58 <pravins> hi anish_ :) 06:13:04 <pravins> moving to next change proposal 06:13:22 <pravins> #info IBus Emoji typing 06:13:24 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/IBus_Emoji_Typing 06:13:46 <pravins> fujiwarat: hi :) 06:13:48 <paragan> this did not get any discussion on FESCo 06:13:50 <mfabian> pravins: gucharmap seems to have a bug already: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1319468 06:14:17 <pravins> aha, then we can simply add it to our main change proposal page and bug 06:14:38 <pravins> paragan: IBus Emoji is still in ChangeReadyForFesco state 06:14:57 <pravins> any discussion happened? sorry i have not seen log :( 06:15:10 <pravins> #chair anish_ 06:15:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: anish_ epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand 06:15:17 <paragan> hope to see more details shared on IBus Emoji implementation either on devel list or in Change wiki page 06:16:17 <fujiwarat> Probably I will update some info today. 06:16:29 <paragan> FESCo said "Defer approval to allow more discussion on implementation and dependencies" 06:16:34 <pravins> * Discussion point: Shortcut key consideration of hook 06:16:52 <pravins> #info FESCo said "Defer approval to allow more discussion on implementation and dependencies" for IBus Emoji typing 06:17:02 <pravins> thanks paragan :) 06:18:04 <fujiwarat> What is the shortcut key consideration? 06:18:48 <pravins> fujiwarat: i saw email on list saying ctr+shift+e is used for other shortcuts in applications 06:19:22 <fujiwarat> pravins: I saw ctrl-shift-? is used but I don't see if ctrl-shift-e is used. 06:20:45 <pravins> sure, so plan is to use control+shift+e itself, right? 06:20:59 <pravins> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/OVESHDOM6RZSIOX3PLS6VIBVXCAEVMYT/#V4EC66XROE26YFHPFVNNLB3ZO22PYXJ5 06:21:23 <pravins> i have not seen any further email on the IBus Emoji typing thread after mfabian reply. 06:21:29 <pravins> So i think idea is clear now. 06:21:48 <pravins> #info No further discussions on devel list regarding IBus Emoji typing, so looks things clear now. 06:22:13 <fujiwarat> Yes, it's the plan. But I can consider it if any other shortcut key is preferred for ibus. 06:22:38 <pravins> any suggestion from anyone here? 06:22:39 <pravins> #chair 06:22:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: anish_ epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand 06:22:50 <pravins> for shortcut key for Emoji typing 06:23:23 <pravins> ShortCut key is always remained problem, its difficult to find unused shortcut key :) 06:23:53 <mfabian> fujiwarat: I have built ibus from git master and am testing it. The Control+Shift+e shortcut works fine for me. 06:23:54 <juhp> Ctrl-Super-Space? 06:24:40 <mfabian> fujiwarat: I wonder why I do not see this menu though: https://fujiwara.fedorapeople.org/ibus/emoji/ibus-emoji-menu.png 06:25:07 <fujiwarat> pravins: I don't see anything but I think it should be different from IME switching. 06:25:16 <pravins> "ctrl+super" can definitely give lots of options :) 06:25:26 <pravins> fujiwarat: +1 06:25:37 <juhp> fujiwarat: any chance or extending it to Unicode char support too later? 06:26:16 <juhp> of! 06:26:28 <pravins> juhp: AFAI think Unicode char requires number of Emoji takes word as input. So not good to club it. 06:26:29 <fujiwarat> juhp: Do you prefer C-S-S to C-S-e? 06:26:47 <juhp> fujiwarat: probably 06:27:02 <juhp> since we already use Super-Space 06:27:28 <juhp> or Shift-Super-Space? 06:27:38 <juhp> is that already bound? 06:27:47 <fujiwarat> mfabian: It needs https://codereview.appspot.com/300690043/ but I start to implement another UI on ibus panel icon. 06:28:28 <mfabian> fujiwarat: Ah, OK! 06:28:30 <juhp> pravins: unicode needs number of words? 06:28:36 <fujiwarat> juhp: Shift-Super-Space is the reverse key of IME switching. 06:28:41 <juhp> ah yeah 06:28:46 <pravins> juhp: for entering Unicode characters, we use rawcode. 06:28:53 <juhp> pravins: I hate that 06:29:04 <fujiwarat> mfabian: thx for your test. 06:29:25 <pravins> #idea Entering Unicode characters with words rather than Rawcode. 06:29:35 <juhp> pravins: I mean no disrespect to ibus-rawcode but it is not nice UX 06:29:47 <juhp> pravins: +1 06:30:30 <pravins> but i think, this feature bring itself new complexities. 06:30:34 <juhp> I have never used it either - I avoid asm too ;o) 06:30:49 <pravins> Presently for Emoji, there is word file provide by Unicode. Keyword and associated Emoji. 06:30:58 <mfabian> juhp: for entering Unicode characters by name, it should certainly match a bit more fuzzy. 06:31:03 <juhp> pravins: true but having two UIs for emoji and unicode sounds worse to me 06:31:17 <juhp> mfabian: absolutely 06:31:23 <mfabian> juhp: Currently this emoji input in ibus seems to match quite strict 06:31:33 <pravins> agree. If it coming in future definitely good to extend present proposal of Emoji :) 06:31:36 <juhp> I still feel for desktop Unicode is actually more important case than emoji 06:32:09 <mfabian> For example, “smiling” doesn’t match anything, only “smile” matches. 06:32:13 <juhp> pravins: sure - I was asking about roadmap :) 06:32:21 <fujiwarat> juhp: The emoji dict will be generate automatically. If there are a way to create a dict by category. 06:32:36 <pravins> juhp: indeed, good idea !! 06:32:48 <mfabian> ibus-uniemoji matches a lot fuzzier which seems useful. 06:32:54 <juhp> fujiwarat: it should be possible to generate some dictionary for unicode - of course it will be a lot bigger 06:33:04 <juhp> mfabian: nice 06:33:10 <pravins> lot lot :) 06:33:13 <juhp> is it good? 06:33:23 <mfabian> juhp: ibus-uniemoji? 06:33:29 <juhp> yep 06:33:51 <mfabian> juhp: Yes, it is not bad, for emoji it works quite well. The fuzzy match is rather good. 06:33:54 <juhp> I did a poor PoC scim-unicode or something long ago 06:34:00 <pravins> i am doubtful regarding how many suggestions it will generate though. But frequently used option shown by fujiwarat is definitely helpful. 06:34:16 <juhp> mfabian: ah it does both already right? 06:34:35 <mfabian> I read the source code of ibus-uniemoji to get some inspiration for emoji support in ibus-typing-booster. 06:34:41 <juhp> of course there should be frequently used unicode too 06:34:50 <mfabian> ibus-uniemoji does *only* emoji, not generic unicode. 06:34:56 <juhp> are we packaging it for fedora? 06:35:03 <mfabian> No, it is not packaged yet. 06:35:09 <pravins> good question. 06:35:13 <juhp> want to? :) 06:35:21 <pravins> Any one planning to package ibus-uniemoji to Fedora? 06:35:24 <juhp> sounds like it would be good to have it 06:35:51 <pravins> Also i remember paragan mentioned that, if we have to make IBus Emoji typing default will it bring many node.js pacakges to Fedora default image? 06:36:07 <juhp> it is only a builddep 06:36:17 <juhp> iiuc 06:36:22 <mfabian> It was very easy to install: "git clone git@github.com:salty-horse/ibus-uniemoji.git; cd ibus-uniemoji; sudo make install; ibus restart" 06:36:46 <mfabian> ibus-uniemoji contains its own copy of emoji.json from emojione. 06:36:50 <juhp> mfabian: nevertheless ... if it seems good enough to include 06:37:08 <pravins> i mean from our proposed change i have 2 queries 06:37:32 <pravins> fujiwarat: Will we able to complete this by 26th Jul? 06:37:32 <paragan> we cannot make it default installed 06:37:41 <paragan> it brings nodejs dep 06:37:53 <paragan> $ rpm -qp --requires nodejs-emojione-2.2.5-1.fc24.noarch.rpm 06:37:54 <paragan> nodejs(engine) 06:38:18 <paragan> $ rpm -q --provides nodejs | grep engine 06:38:18 <paragan> nodejs(engine) = 4.4.6 06:38:23 <pravins> paragan: confirming again, so our proposed change will bring lots of node.js package, if we want to make it default? 06:38:41 <paragan> not lots of but basic nodejs engine at least 06:38:45 <mfabian> currently, emoji input in ibus seems to use only one single file from nodejs-emojione, only the emoji.json file and only at build time. 06:39:16 <mfabian> So all that nodejs stuff is not really used by ibus. 06:39:17 <paragan> yeah but when you install nodejs-emojione, it will bring nodejs package 06:39:18 <pravins> mfabian: aha, in that case in long term we can avoid that dependency, if we want to make it default 06:39:18 <epico> maybe I can try to package ibus-uniemoji... 06:39:33 <mfabian> epico: Great! 06:39:37 <pravins> epico: +1 06:39:43 <pravins> good to have that package in.. 06:39:53 <epico> :) 06:39:54 <paragan> there is no escape to nodejs dep if we want any implementation defualt 06:40:36 <mfabian> The emoji.json file has a size of around 400K. 06:40:46 <epico> ah 06:40:54 <fujiwarat> paragan: Not sure why you talk about the build dependency. 06:41:03 <pravins> #info epico planning to package ibus-uniemoji in Fedora. 06:41:15 <paragan> fujiwarat, okay let me also understand this 06:41:29 <paragan> Suppose you created nodejs-emojione package in Fedora 06:41:43 <paragan> you marked in to be installed default in Fedora Workstation 06:41:56 <paragan> when it gets installed, don't it also install nodejs package?? 06:42:10 <fujiwarat> No, I don't mark in to be installed default. 06:42:14 <juhp> is it possible to subpackage the data from nodejs-emojione so that nodejs dep is not needed? 06:42:33 <paragan> if you don't want it default say so in Change page 06:42:38 <paragan> then no issue 06:42:56 <fujiwarat> Again it's build depend only. 06:43:15 <mfabian> juhp: probably yes. But as it is only a build dependency, there is no big problem. 06:43:28 <pravins> #info Presently no plan to make or install IBus Emoji defautl, will decide based on users/ other teams input. 06:43:34 <fujiwarat> juhp: There is the directory dependency. 06:43:34 <juhp> well seems not from what paragan wrote above 06:43:46 <juhp> ah 06:44:01 <juhp> pravins: sure 06:44:20 <pravins> so fujiwarat is there is chance to get first build in Fedora by 26/27th? 06:44:28 * juhp doesn't know how "big" nodejs(engine) is 06:44:47 <juhp> pravins: is it a Systemwide Change? 06:44:47 <pravins> just asking as per schedule :) 06:44:49 <pravins> yes 06:44:55 <juhp> should it be? 06:45:00 <paragan> it will not make any difference, we don't want any new dependencies in Fedora Workstation 06:45:36 <juhp> paragan: I am not suggesting default install but want to avoid any heavy deps 06:45:38 <pravins> IBus is on crit path. 06:45:41 <paragan> juhp, ah you are right then 06:45:48 <paragan> this change should be self-contained 06:46:02 <paragan> but we are not updating ibus 06:46:03 <juhp> if it is not installed by default I feel so 06:46:22 <paragan> are we? 06:46:22 <juhp> maybe that will change in a future release... 06:46:50 <pravins> +1 Good to have this not default in this release and take opinion in next releases. 06:46:51 <juhp> paragan: good question 06:47:07 <paragan> anyways if there will be no reply soon, FESCo may delay this Change to next release 06:47:14 <juhp> ah 06:47:20 <paragan> we have meeting in 2 days 06:47:33 <pravins> sorry, i am not clear. IBus emoji typing will be new package? or simply part of IBus? 06:47:35 <juhp> paragan: reply where? 06:47:44 <juhp> new package I thought? 06:47:48 <paragan> says devel list 06:47:57 <pravins> ohh, paragan which email? 06:47:58 <juhp> about the deps right? 06:48:04 <paragan> If FESCo raised questions 06:48:05 <juhp> fujiwarat: can you please reply on the list then 06:48:11 <juhp> if? 06:48:11 <fujiwarat> pravins: it's in ibus core. 06:48:14 <paragan> then reply on devel list to those questions 06:48:17 <juhp> ah 06:48:41 <juhp> fujiwarat: how big is the node dep currently? 06:49:11 <juhp> or is paragan's output out of date now? 06:50:03 <fujiwarat> juhp: ? nodejs-emojione depends on the nodejs's directory but it should not be a big problem since it's the build dependency only. 06:50:12 <pravins> paragan: can you provide link for FeSco question, it will be helpful. 06:50:28 <juhp> fujiwarat: you saw the output above? 06:50:43 <juhp> ah sorry 06:50:46 <paragan> pravins, well its Change owner responsibility also to look if their proposals are accepted or got questions 06:50:52 <juhp> that was just for emojione doh 06:51:01 <mfabian> Yesterday, when I wanted to build a rpm package for ibus from git master to test the emoji support, I had problems building it because nodejs-emojione was not yet available and I didn’t know how to add it easily. So I did this which worked so I could test it: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/392732/97368146/ 06:51:04 <paragan> if questions then reply accordingly 06:51:05 <juhp> fujiwarat: I withdraw my question... 06:51:11 <pravins> paragan: hmm, may be need to check ticket itself. 06:51:30 <juhp> I don't see any problem if it is only a BR 06:51:34 <juhp> should be fine 06:51:52 <juhp> ah 06:52:21 <juhp> fujiwarat: if it is in ibus I think it needs to be SystemWide and so ready for testing by next week 06:52:24 <pravins> At least no question on ticket https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1594 06:53:07 <juhp> strictly speaking at least ;o) 06:53:11 <pravins> Even, alpha/testing version is fine i think. 06:53:18 <juhp> yeah 06:53:51 <pravins> Alpha freeze is on 2016-08-09, so before that will work ideally 06:54:04 <juhp> pravins: there was a question about dep on devel list I thought.. probably we should move on anyway :-) 06:54:18 <pravins> but like with glibc subpackaging we broke nightly build 06:54:24 <pravins> yes. took lot time. 06:54:30 <fujiwarat> juhp: The current Fedora change can be implemented soon but not sure about the next plan about GUI. 06:54:41 <pravins> Since this is early development phase, good to have meeting next week as well. 06:54:47 <pravins> Vote? :) 06:54:49 <pravins> #chair 06:54:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: anish_ epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan pravins suanand 06:54:51 <pravins> +1 06:54:58 <anish_> +1 06:55:00 <juhp> fujiwarat: so for workstation it will be less visible right? 06:55:09 <paragan> okay +1 06:55:29 <juhp> +1 06:55:37 <juhp> for meeting next week 06:55:43 <fujiwarat> juhp: Yes, the current Fedora page suggests the CLI only. 06:55:54 <juhp> okay 06:56:01 <pravins> #agreed I18n Meeting on 27th July (+4,0,0) 06:56:28 <pravins> moving to next change proposal. 06:56:51 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Transdiff 06:57:02 <pravins> suanand: hi, how this is going? 06:57:18 <suanand> got bugzilla id :) 06:57:25 <pravins> nice :) 06:57:31 <suanand> planning to start code and some workarounds 06:57:37 <pravins> for self-contained change we can definitely have more time. 06:58:00 <pravins> need to confirm with jkurik since its not mentioned on F25 schedule page 06:58:07 <suanand> may be some progress by end of this month 06:58:16 <Satya> +1 06:58:16 <pravins> suanand: great. thanks :) 06:58:34 <suanand> as we are approaching string freeze soon 06:58:49 <pravins> #info We might get some update by End of July for Transdiff. 06:58:53 <suanand> it seems more meaningful for f26 I believe 06:58:54 <pravins> yes 06:59:08 <pravins> suanand: so want to defer it for F26? 06:59:31 <suanand> I think so, technically/logically 06:59:50 <suanand> not sure though... how about you? 07:00:26 <suanand> pravins, I mean how you feel? 07:00:33 <pravins> not sure either but since Fedora 25 is quick release. We need to move fast for proposals 07:00:41 <pravins> Though our is self contained. 07:00:55 <pravins> So if your planned timeline does not matching with F25, good to defer. 07:01:05 <pravins> s/F25/F25 schedule 07:01:24 <suanand> I agree 07:01:31 <pravins> umm, already overtime. 07:01:59 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Ibus-typing-booster_multilingual_support 07:02:10 <pravins> I think we are safe with this change proposal 07:02:18 <pravins> so lets discuss next time :) 07:02:32 <pravins> moving to next topic 07:02:34 <pravins> #topic #63: Bug triaging activity post F24 (pravins) 07:02:34 <pravins> #link https://fedorahosted.org/i18n/ticket/63 07:02:45 <pravins> I had discussion with Satya on this earlier. 07:02:58 <pravins> and plan is to have some bug triaging half day 07:03:03 <pravins> where even more people can participate 07:03:15 <pravins> but sad part is most of our bugs got auto close with F22 EOL 07:03:46 <pravins> Since, less time i think good to communicate about it over the email 07:03:55 <Satya> pravins, we will take it up sometimes next week as discussed. 07:04:21 <pravins> Page is ready 07:04:24 <pravins> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FLTG/F24_I18N_Bug_Triaging 07:04:45 <Satya> great 07:04:56 <pravins> from i18n team point, we will need to help participants for tech. queries. 07:05:05 <pravins> As of now we are planning 26th for this activity 07:05:12 <anish_> cool 07:05:25 <pravins> #topic Open Floor 07:05:33 <pravins> Any urgent topic we missed to discuss? 07:05:49 <pravins> anish_: sorry, i have not seen proposal for Hunspel :( 07:06:09 <pravins> even its not late to propose for F25. Lets keep development on and propose for F26 07:06:13 <anish_> pravins, i drafted it https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/hunspell 07:06:25 <anish_> but seems i am late now 07:06:29 <pravins> #link Hunspell dict proposal https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/hunspell 07:07:17 <pravins> lets try for F26 :) 07:07:27 <pravins> any other imp points before we close? 07:07:29 <anish_> yeah but meanwhile I will create mockups for platform 07:07:35 <pravins> anish_: that will be great. 07:07:43 <pravins> do update change proposal page, once you done it. 07:07:50 <pravins> I would like to test/see it 07:07:57 <anish_> cool thanks 07:08:18 <pravins> lets close meeting in 2 min. 07:10:19 <pravins> thanks everyone for meeting 07:10:25 <pravins> #endmeeting