15:05:28 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig
15:05:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  9 15:05:28 2016 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:05:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:05:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:05:32 <rdieter> #topic roll call
15:05:37 * lupinix is here
15:05:39 <pino|work> o/
15:05:41 <rdieter> hi all, friendly kde-sig meeting, who's present today?
15:06:01 * Kevin_Kofler present in the role of QtWebEngine maintainer and QupZilla comaintainer.
15:06:21 <rdieter> #info rdieter tosky_ pino|work lupinix Kevin_Kofler present
15:06:35 * jgrulich is present
15:07:23 <dvratil> hi
15:08:11 <rdieter> #info jgrulich dvratil present
15:08:23 <rdieter> #chair tosky_ pino|work lupinix jgrulich dvratil
15:08:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jgrulich lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky_
15:08:42 <rdieter> than sends regrets (pto)
15:09:05 <pino|work> sends them from some far away island?
15:09:11 <Kevin_Kofler> Surely a well-deserved vacation.
15:10:01 <rdieter> #topic agenda
15:10:20 <rdieter> ok, we've got the browser vote to do, anything else to discuss today?
15:10:58 <lupinix> i think not, kf5 5.25 is in progress, right?
15:11:04 <Kevin_Kofler> How to deal with the blockers breaking QtWebEngine and Chromium?
15:11:18 <dvratil> lupinix: yep
15:11:20 <lupinix> we should file them as blockers
15:12:07 <Kevin_Kofler> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/5J74ZUAESCPFPZNJ3HS7ZKCKD2Z32U7U/
15:12:09 <pino|work> talk with the chromium maintainer too?
15:13:20 <rdieter> ok, let's get started then
15:13:31 <rdieter> #topic f25 kde spin default browser
15:14:44 <rdieter> I think it's been discussed pretty thoroughly onlist, anyone want to have any *limited* discussion here before voting?
15:15:00 <lupinix> nope
15:15:02 <pino|work> ... yet more discussion?
15:15:16 * rdieter will limit to 5-10 minutes at most, if needed
15:15:22 <lupinix> i think points are clear
15:16:44 <Kevin_Kofler> I thought this was pretty much settled already, but then a new proposal brought yet another non-native browser on the table…
15:17:06 <lupinix> maybe just one note: qtwebengine is really well maintained, checked the git and they backport all chromium fixes :) is also easy to build an updated qtwebengine
15:17:07 <rdieter> I recall we agreed to revisit the issue, which is precisely what we're doing
15:17:37 <Kevin_Kofler> lupinix: Right, good point.
15:17:50 <lupinix> http://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtwebengine-chromium.git/ close to chromium upstream
15:18:31 <lupinix> i'm mentioning it because someone started to discuss the security stuff
15:18:35 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes. You just need to know which branch is for which Qt version.
15:18:43 <lupinix> exactly
15:18:47 <Kevin_Kofler> 45-based = 5.6, 49-based = 5.7
15:18:50 <rdieter> we have 3 choices:  firefox (current default), qupzilla, and chromium, each kde-sig member can cast a range vote of 0-2 for each.
15:19:10 <rdieter> please do so now
15:19:16 <Kevin_Kofler> 47-based is dead because 5.7 was rebased to 49 before release. That's why you see 45-based and 49-based updated and not 47-based.
15:19:35 <lupinix> +2 for qupzilla, 0 for others
15:21:10 <jgrulich> +2 chromium, +1 firefox, 0 qupzilla
15:21:15 <rdieter> 2 qupzilla, 1 firefox, 0 chromium
15:21:18 <dvratil> +2 firefox, +1 chromium, 0 qupzilla
15:21:24 <tosky_> +2 firefox, 0 chromium (too new), +1 qupzilla
15:21:33 <pino|work> +2 firefox, 0 the rest
15:23:29 <Kevin_Kofler> Those voting for Firefox, would you care to elaborate why you still insist on Firefox? QupZilla is at least as compatible with current websites as Firefox (which was the argument for picking it over Konqueror). QupZilla is also faster.
15:23:32 <rdieter> ok, I think that's all present kde-sig members, and if I count right, current tally is
15:23:40 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: discussion is over for now, maybe later
15:23:50 <rdieter> let's not muddle the results and log
15:24:09 <rdieter> firefox: 6, qupzilla: 5, chromium: 3
15:24:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Sigh…
15:24:17 <Kevin_Kofler> Folks, I'm done for it.
15:24:21 <pino|work> rdieter: firefox=8
15:24:26 <Kevin_Kofler> You can maintain QtWebEngine yourself.
15:24:39 <rdieter> ah, right, thanks
15:24:45 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm fed up of doing lots of work and then you refusing to ship it.
15:24:55 <rdieter> um, we *are* shipping it
15:25:16 <Kevin_Kofler> I really worked a lot to provide a good default browser for the KDE Spin.
15:25:28 <rdieter> #info current vote tally: firefox 8, qupzilla 5, chromium 3
15:25:36 <Kevin_Kofler> Yet you still insist on defaulting to Firefox, which is completely out of place.
15:25:37 <rdieter> we still have several members not present that could swing the vote
15:25:54 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: last warning, discussion is over
15:26:05 <rdieter> (here, for now)
15:26:43 <Kevin_Kofler> Go ahead and ban me if you think that is going to increase the chances that I will continue working for you for free and watching you throw my work away.
15:26:44 <rdieter> I'll reach out to remaining kde-sig members onlist for ask for their formal voting
15:27:13 <pino|work> didn't we vote for removing qupzilla, did we?
15:27:27 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: are you really going to make us do that?  just sit and relax, the voting is not final (yet)
15:28:30 <rdieter> pino|work: correct, we did not
15:29:27 <rdieter> *if* firefox gets replaced as default, I was going to consider a followup proposal to remove it from the spin too
15:30:06 <rdieter> ok, let's move on
15:30:07 <Kevin_Kofler> Of course, Firefox should be removed entirely.
15:30:18 <Kevin_Kofler> Shipping 2 browsers doesn't make sense.
15:30:24 <rdieter> #topic recent updates
15:30:28 <rdieter> dvratil: kf5 status ?
15:31:08 <dvratil> KF5 5.25 is done in rawhide,  F23, F24, F25 and EPEL7 builds are running, will be done during today
15:31:50 <dvratil> found a bug in flex-2.6.0 in rawhide which breaks build, needed some small patching in CMakeLists.txt
15:32:23 <dvratil> .rhbz 1364943
15:32:38 <rdieter> thx, plasma-5.7.3 went to f24 stable updates earlier this week, currently still in -testing (5 days) for f23
15:32:40 <dvratil> in case you run to "C++ style comments are not allowed" error when building some KDE apps
15:32:41 * pino|work found a (small) behaviour change in flex 2.6.1 generated output few days ago :/
15:33:10 <dvratil> pino|work: the problem is fixed in 2.6.1, but rawhide ships 2.6.0 atm
15:33:55 <tosky_> 5.25 is still not officially out, let's cross fingers and hope that won't be rebases
15:33:57 <rdieter> good, sounds like the fix is easy then :)
15:35:04 * rdieter imported kde-apps-16.07.90 into rawhide recently, and got almost all into f25 before alpha freeze
15:35:25 <rdieter> (minus digikam unfortunately)
15:35:47 <rdieter> (which needed rebuilding due to soname changes)
15:36:01 <pino|work> dvratil: ah it was triggered by building solid
15:36:34 <pino|work> dvratil: slightly unrelated: if you spot build/compatibility/etc issues in the lex/yacc code in solid and kservice, just poke me asap
15:37:06 <dvratil> pino|work: ok, I only ran int othis issue with flex which is easilly fixed by forcing C99 mode
15:37:23 <dvratil> rdieter: nice!
15:40:42 <rdieter> oh, still didn't import the pim stuff from kde-apps-16.07.90, due to 3 new packages needing review
15:41:03 <rdieter> .bug 1361940
15:41:03 <zodbot> rdieter: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1361940
15:41:06 <Kevin_Kofler> If the version now in the frozen F25 Alpha has broken dependencies, try filing a freeze exception.
15:41:07 <rdieter> silly zodbot
15:41:24 <rdieter> they're on the kde-reviews tracker, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=kde-reviews
15:41:46 <Kevin_Kofler> (for Digikam)
15:41:47 <rdieter> kf5-akonadi-contacts, kf5-akonadi-mime, kf5-akonadi-notes
15:41:59 <rdieter> these 3 replace the formerly monolithic kf5-akonadi (aka kdepimlibs)
15:42:30 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: will do, yes
15:43:14 <rdieter> I think that's all I've got, anyone else?
15:44:13 <Kevin_Kofler> The QtWebEngine blockers are a separate agenda item?
15:44:37 <rdieter> sure, let's move on to that
15:44:52 <rdieter> #topic QtWebEngine and Chromium bugs/blockers
15:45:31 <Kevin_Kofler> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/5J74ZUAESCPFPZNJ3HS7ZKCKD2Z32U7U/
15:45:43 <rdieter> regardless of default browser, I think the app-crashing bugs are still arguably blockers
15:45:53 <Kevin_Kofler> We have 3 blockers breaking QtWebEngine (and probably Chromium) on F25 and Rawhide:
15:45:57 <rdieter> (for qupzilla at least, since we do ship it on the spin)
15:46:22 <Kevin_Kofler> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1363914 ← SELinux issue, the cause is apparently already found and a fix proposed
15:46:30 <lupinix> https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/25/alpha/buglist we should file them here
15:46:40 <Kevin_Kofler> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1347436 ← (/dev/shm permissions) initscripts issue, also already debugged
15:47:09 <Kevin_Kofler> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1364781 ← obscure issue, apparently due to glibc 2.24, but we really really need to track this down in some way
15:47:26 <Kevin_Kofler> Neither the glibc folks nor me know so far how to find out what is going wrong.
15:47:44 <Kevin_Kofler> All 3 should probably be filed as release blockers, maybe even Alpha blockers.
15:48:00 <tosky_> (sorry, I need do drop out)
15:48:34 <lupinix> alpha or at least beta
15:48:52 <pino|work> #1347436 already is?
15:48:54 <rdieter> I'm not sure of the criteria, but I'd suggest beta
15:49:19 <lupinix> pino|work: yes, beta blocker
15:50:09 <Kevin_Kofler> Then there's also the assorted Nouveau breakage (4 bugs linked in the mail), where I don't know how to do anything about them.
15:50:18 <Kevin_Kofler> They have good backtraces, all pointing straight to Nouveau code.
15:50:28 <Kevin_Kofler> But the Nouveau developers have not looked at any of them, or at least not replied.
15:50:29 <pino|work> talk with the nouveau people?
15:50:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Can somebody with better diplomatic skills than me try to poke them? :-)
15:51:20 <Kevin_Kofler> In an ideal world, reassigning the bugs should be sufficient, but it doesn't look like it.
15:51:36 <Kevin_Kofler> Having been on the receiving end of floods of ABRT spam, I can also relate to why.
15:51:48 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: I suppose we could consider proposing those as blockers too
15:51:50 <Kevin_Kofler> You just can't manage to even read the mails you get, let alone respond to them.
15:52:16 <pino|work> then be patient with them, really
15:56:09 <rdieter> sounds like a tentative plan, moving on...
15:56:12 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
15:56:16 <rdieter> anything else to discuss today?
15:57:09 <Kevin_Kofler> How long can we be patient?
15:57:40 <Kevin_Kofler> The first of the crashes was reported 1½ months ago.
16:01:56 <rdieter> ok, sounds like not, thanks everyone
16:02:13 <rdieter> fyi, I'll followup onlist asking those kde-sig members not present today to vote on the browser proposal
16:02:18 <rdieter> #endmeeting