14:00:05 <randomus`> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
14:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Aug 22 14:00:05 2016 UTC.  The chair is randomus`. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs_project_meeting_-_agenda:_https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/docs_project_meetings'
14:00:05 <randomus`> #meetingname Fedora Docs
14:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
14:00:05 <randomus`> #topic Roll Call
14:01:01 <randomus`> good morning everyone
14:04:08 <randomus`> awfully quiet
14:04:37 * pbokoc 
14:04:47 <randomus`> i'll give it a few more minutes, and spend the hour hacking if there's no interest in the meeting
14:04:55 <pkovar> /me is here
14:05:05 <randomus`> Hello, Petrs
14:05:36 * Capesteve waves
14:05:42 <pbokoc> yeah, I don't really have anything to discuss
14:05:42 <pkovar> haha, Petrs must be hard to pronounce in english :)
14:06:11 <pbokoc> Capesteve, you ruined it! Shoo!
14:06:25 <Capesteve> sorriiieeeee
14:06:28 <randomus`> it's easy if you don't worry about doing it correctly :P
14:08:03 <randomus`> now I'm not sure which way to go
14:08:35 <randomus`> Capesteve is expecting a raucous and productive meeting, I don't want to disappoint him
14:09:24 <Capesteve> we can always close the meeting early to allow more time for bugs
14:10:07 <randomus`> #topic Fedora 25 Schedule
14:10:22 <randomus`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/Schedule
14:10:49 <bexelbie> .fas bex
14:10:49 <zodbot> bexelbie: ybexwqmxnx 'ybexwqmxnx yhdgb' <ybexwqmxnx@nowmymail.com> - bexhet '' <bexhet@hotmail.it> - lonelyibex 'fungo' <lonelyibex@gmail.com> - tqtwr 'gsafd' <mesabexudi@top1mail.ru> - moko 'moko lee' <ibex@msn.cn> - sfarr01 'Steven Farr' <sfarr@bex.net> - mcreps 'Merl Creps Jr' <merljr@bex.net> - tbex 'Tony Beckham' <t2yb5m@gmail.com> - efjiwmos 'takagiatuko' <bexroll@gmail.com> - makubex 'Bruno Lopes de Mello' (2 more messages)
14:10:51 <bexelbie> sorr I'm late
14:11:09 <randomus`> hey bex
14:11:19 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:11:21 <bexelbie> hey
14:11:21 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
14:11:50 <randomus`> so there's a schedule
14:12:15 <bexelbie> randomus`, zoglesby did jkurkik get in touch with either of you?
14:12:20 <randomus`> this week's composes may well become next week's alpha release
14:12:22 <bexelbie> he had asked about readiness for F25
14:12:31 <randomus`> bexelbie, yeah, I have a PM from him
14:12:49 <zoglesby> same
14:12:49 <bexelbie> cool
14:12:52 <randomus`> did not see an email but it's conceivable that I missed it
14:12:55 <zoglesby> also hello
14:13:02 <bexelbie> hola zoglesby
14:13:06 <bexelbie> hola everyone else too :)
14:13:46 <randomus`> the release process really snuck up on me this time around
14:13:53 <randomus`> #link https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-25/f-25-docs-tasks.html
14:14:15 <randomus`> we should be doing beat stuff right now
14:14:30 <randomus`> fiddling with the assignment table, recruiting people
14:14:54 <randomus`> #action randomuser to sent 'beats open' announce
14:15:26 <randomus`> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/25/ChangeSet
14:15:59 <randomus`> there's a manageable number of changes proposed
14:17:12 <randomus`> meanwhile, at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats, there's a wiki table that needs to be updated then used
14:18:26 <randomus`> we'd put an asterisk next to names during the last cycle and nobody came by to remove them, so I'll probably do that now when updating the other fields
14:19:00 <randomus`> the asterisk signifies the person has not confirmed their interest in participating
14:20:03 <randomus`> fun stuff
14:20:24 <randomus`> anyone else have thoughts?  other things to do or plan for the f25 release?
14:22:26 <randomus`> okay then
14:22:39 <randomus`> #topic open floor
14:22:53 <bexelbie> I can share a bit on my work with pintail, if there is interest
14:23:01 <randomus`> sure
14:23:04 <randomus`> #chair bexelbie
14:23:04 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie randomus`
14:23:15 <bexelbie> #topic Pintail Exploration
14:23:28 <bexelbie> last week I was asked to start taking a look at what it would take to get pintail running for us
14:23:38 <bexelbie> I reserve the right to revise and extend these remarks :)
14:23:47 <bexelbie> This means that I am not done and may reverse some of current thoughts/decisions
14:23:51 <bexelbie> but, here is what I have found
14:24:11 <bexelbie> I can get a DocBook book to build both at the repo and the docs.fp.o levels
14:24:23 <randomus`> cool
14:24:23 <bexelbie> It took roughly these changes:
14:24:48 <bexelbie> 1. I created a Common Content Repo and mapped it into the book repo with a git subtree
14:25:12 <bexelbie> 2. I had to rename the entity file to Guide.ent so that we had a common name across all repos becasue of the mapped common content
14:25:35 <bexelbie> 3. I had to delete all doctype declarations as there seems to be a nested DTD loading error
14:25:51 <bexelbie> 4. pintail contains a bug that prevents building unless I modify it's code to eliminate a duplicate page test
14:25:58 <randomus`> all, or just all not in Guide_Name.xml ?
14:25:59 <bexelbie> 3 and 4 are the most likely to change of my conclusions
14:26:16 <bexelbie> randomus`, I deleted ALL of them so far
14:26:19 <bexelbie> I am revisiting that decision
14:26:28 * randomus` nods
14:26:30 <bexelbie> but, It does work
14:26:40 <bexelbie> that said, I have no idea what site theming is going to look like with this
14:26:42 <bexelbie> yet
14:26:52 <randomus`> yeah, theming worries me
14:27:03 <bexelbie> I want to spend at least one more week on this and I have some other ideas to explore, but progress, such as it is, was made
14:27:09 <randomus`> i've done successful build testing, and built a very ugly site
14:27:12 <bexelbie> repos are on pagure
14:27:31 <bexelbie> I can share urls, but be warned - I will rewrite history - so don't get to comfortable :P
14:27:54 <bexelbie> Also, pintail seems painfully slow
14:27:56 <bexelbie> EOR
14:28:31 <randomus`> hm
14:29:12 <randomus`> we may as well have branches for each of the guides that we're prepping for pintail
14:29:24 <zoglesby> you can speed it up with --no-update or something like that (don't recall the actual name) so that it is not pulling from git again
14:29:35 <bexelbie> zoglesby, I am using that and --local
14:29:41 <bexelbie> iirc
14:29:52 <zoglesby> hm
14:30:07 <bexelbie> randomus`, I am not sure we should branch yet ... only because I would hate to see us start making changes based on my notes and then need to reverse course
14:30:21 <bexelbie> I want to beat on this more before anything I have said is taken without a grain of salt
14:30:26 <randomus`> fair enough
14:30:35 <bexelbie> I've been testing with the install guide
14:30:36 <bexelbie> fy
14:30:38 <bexelbie> fyi
14:31:37 <randomus`> that's the important one
14:32:01 <bexelbie> that is why  I picked it
14:32:33 <randomus`> bexelbie, the common content repo is simply the existing common content in a submodule, or did that need adjustment too?
14:32:51 <bexelbie> randomus`, it is the content, massaged, as needed
14:33:01 <bexelbie> for now, I am being a bad person and ignoring translation so it is just the en-US content
14:33:07 <bexelbie> that also needs to be pushed on
14:33:12 <bexelbie> translation being that :)
14:33:15 <randomus`> yeah
14:33:32 <bexelbie> and ... I would love a link to the actual common content - I found some of it .. but things are missing from the repo I found
14:33:41 * bexelbie feels silly that he couldn't find it
14:33:58 <bexelbie> like Conventions.xml is missing
14:34:29 * randomus` looks
14:35:40 <pkovar> imho we can just skip Conventions.xml - no useful info there anyway
14:36:04 <bexelbie> pkovar, possibly - I just want to be sure I am even picking up the most recent version of the common content :)
14:37:00 <randomus`> https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/publican.git/tree/ probably somehow?
14:37:39 <randomus`> yeah, like https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/publican.git/tree/datadir/Common_Content/common/en-US
14:38:04 <bexelbie> randomus`++
14:38:07 <bexelbie> thank you
14:38:41 <randomus`> i'm wondering how much value common content has with the new model
14:39:15 <bexelbie> randomus`, I think we need to think about how we want to handle it
14:39:23 <bexelbie> my gut feel is footer info (a link to each)
14:39:25 <randomus`> if every page is page one, you don't need to preface each short onepager with one page each of legal disclaimer, feedback notice, conventions, author page, etc
14:40:18 <bexelbie> randomus`, but if we plan to build more than a small handful of docbook books, we need a way to handle the traditional common content model
14:41:11 <pkovar> do it like they do it in gnome, footer info contains authors & copyright
14:41:13 <pkovar> that it
14:41:18 <pkovar> * that's
14:41:28 <randomus`> or at least we need to provide the esssential common content bits for the document structure
14:41:39 <randomus`> like css and images, maybe
14:42:39 <bexelbie> randomus`, yes
14:43:19 <bexelbie> pkovar, I think we should figure out what our community needs, but yes, minimal and footer driven +1
14:43:26 <randomus`> generally sounds like we all need to spend more time on this
14:43:50 <bexelbie> I think there is a lot of different areas of thought that need to converge
14:44:01 <bexelbie> and we can focus and come up with some answers :)
14:44:18 <bexelbie> but making sure we checkpoint weekly is essential to keep the different pieces from veering too far apart
14:44:31 <bexelbie> for example, if our model doesn't need common content hte tooling can stop making it work :)
14:45:08 <randomus`> and if it *does* need common content, we need to get it out of publican
14:45:50 <bexelbie> yes, it should be a standalone repo
14:46:07 <randomus`> i'll try to replicate your efforts this week, bexelbie, so we'll be in the same chapter if not on the same page
14:46:26 <bexelbie> randomus`, before you get started, let's touch base again and I'll more clearly share reproduction notes
14:46:43 <randomus`> sure, what time zone are you in today?
14:46:48 <bexelbie> I'd prefer to see someone thinking through a repo with topic style content
14:47:02 <bexelbie> randomus`, CEST, but today is probably going to suck - coworker had a baby last night so my evening may be booked
14:47:13 <randomus`> exciting!
14:47:26 <bexelbie> so wednesday or later may be best for me
14:47:29 <randomus`> okay, tcb
14:47:51 <randomus`> #action randomus` to convert cookbook to set of asciidoc articles for further testing
14:48:17 <bexelbie> randomus`, do you mind experimenting with some automated conversoin ideas so we have a "recipe" for that, if needed?
14:48:20 <randomus`> i'm drawing a blank on the frontmatter formatting - do we know what that should look like yet?
14:48:31 <bexelbie> pkovar, could you provide some feedback on docbook->asciidoc
14:48:37 <bexelbie> ?
14:49:09 <randomus`> bexelbie, these are standalone articles, so it'll be straightforward
14:49:22 <bexelbie> randomus`, darn and not darn :)
14:49:26 <randomus`> no content conversion required, only format
14:49:27 <pkovar> bexelbie: so, this is slightly outdated now: https://blogs.gnome.org/pmkovar/2015/10/27/converting-docbook-into-asciidoc/
14:49:35 <pkovar> (shameless plug)
14:49:56 <pkovar> but yeah,  docbookrx much better than other tools
14:50:05 <pkovar> still with issues, though
14:50:20 <pkovar> like lack of support for some docbook elements and structures
14:50:45 <randomus`> systemitem, ouch
14:50:45 <bexelbie> hm
14:50:47 <randomus`> we use that
14:51:03 <zoglesby> Oh, I have something to add!
14:51:07 <pkovar> might be supported in git master now, havent checked recently
14:51:13 <bexelbie> that opens the question of what our style guide should be to balance frictionless contribution versus formatting/metadata needs
14:51:36 <randomus`> style guide chapter 1: use this template
14:52:07 <zoglesby> Sparks said he is going to start working on converting the security guide to asciidoc and as they are using it for all RH internal security docs he has already written a lot of docs in it, so that may be a good example for style as he works on it
14:52:37 <bexelbie> woo!
14:52:41 <bexelbie> that is good to hear
14:52:42 <randomus`> awesome
14:54:11 <randomus`> okay, we have some action items now
14:54:40 <randomus`> if you didn't get one, don't feel left out, go to  https://pagure.io/docs-fp-o/issues
14:54:52 <randomus`> #topic Open Floor
14:55:08 <randomus`> five minutes for free play, don't hold back
14:58:07 <randomus`> we're probably all ready to move on with the day
14:58:27 <randomus`> thanks for coming all, and making it a productive meeting
14:58:36 <randomus`> #endmeeting