15:02:17 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig
15:02:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 11 15:02:17 2016 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:02:25 <rdieter> #topic roll call
15:02:33 <rdieter> hi all, friendly kde-sig meeting about to start, who's present today?
15:02:57 <lupinix> .hello lupinix
15:02:59 <zodbot> lupinix: lupinix 'Christian Dersch' <lupinix@mailbox.org>
15:03:24 <tosky> hi
15:03:43 <pino|work> hi
15:05:11 <rdieter> #info rdieter lupinix tosky pino|work present
15:05:15 <rdieter> #chair lupinix tosky pino|work
15:05:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky
15:05:42 <dvratil> hi
15:05:59 <rdieter> hola
15:06:43 <rdieter> #info dvratil present
15:06:45 <rdieter> #chair dvratil
15:06:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky
15:07:01 * jreznik_ is here
15:07:06 <jreznik_> hi
15:07:19 * pino|work offers jreznik_ a beer
15:07:23 <rdieter> #info jreznik_ present
15:07:24 <rdieter> #chair jreznik_
15:07:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky
15:07:35 <rdieter> ok, let's gather topics
15:07:39 <rdieter> #topic agenda
15:07:57 <rdieter> what to discuss today?  I can give status kf5/plasma bodhi updates
15:08:20 <tosky> what was the feedback so far? I couldn't try them yet
15:08:32 <lupinix> i remember some discussion whether we use breeze-gtk as default
15:08:53 <lupinix> plasma 5.8 is really awesome
15:09:05 <lupinix> especially multiscreen stuff is fixed (at least for me)
15:09:49 <rdieter> ok, let's start with that
15:10:03 <rdieter> #topic kf5-5.27/plasma-5.8 status updates
15:10:31 <rdieter> so, plasma-5.8.0 went to f25 recently, kf5-5.27.0 submitted for f25 -testing earlier today
15:10:40 <rdieter> tosky: good feedback so far
15:10:46 <rdieter> really good, actually
15:11:30 <tosky> as I mentioned earlier, 5.8.1 should be tagged today
15:11:33 <lupinix> imho we should think about 5.8 in f24 too, as it works really fine and is also LTS
15:11:33 <rdieter> waiting for 5.8.1 (tarballs landing today?) before doing any official f24 (or maybe f23 too) builds
15:11:35 <tosky> upstream, I mean
15:11:59 <lupinix> https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.8.1.php already announced
15:12:01 <jreznik_> if it's tagged today, I'd wait for it with final release
15:12:41 <rdieter> lupinix: heh, ok
15:13:08 <rdieter> anyway, I think doing plasma-5.8.x for f24 would definitely be a good thing (but due to theming changes requires a little extra work)
15:13:18 <rdieter> for f23, I'm less certain
15:13:41 <lupinix> well, f23 will die in december… (if everything works well with f25 shedule)
15:13:48 <jreznik_> yeah, I'm for f24, f23 is over
15:15:13 <rdieter> ok, no plasma-5.8 for f23... for now
15:16:10 <rdieter> notable breeze theming changes include:  sddm theme, plasma lock/new-session screens
15:16:22 <rdieter> and minimalistic ksplash
15:16:46 <rdieter> (now essentially just animating K logo on black background)
15:16:59 <mbriza> hello, sorry for coming late
15:17:02 * lupinix likes it
15:17:07 <rdieter> #info mbriza present
15:17:09 <rdieter> mbriza: hi
15:17:13 <rdieter> #chair mbrize
15:17:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix mbrize pino|work rdieter tosky
15:17:21 <rdieter> #undo
15:17:21 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by rdieter at 15:17:07 : mbriza present
15:17:28 <rdieter> #chair mbriza
15:17:28 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix mbriza mbrize pino|work rdieter tosky
15:17:32 <rdieter> #info mbriza present
15:17:37 <rdieter> heh
15:17:44 <pino|work> your undo removed the info
15:18:17 <rdieter> as lupinix mentionned, plasma-5.8 touts unified theming, so (apparently) breeze-gtk is more recommended for use now
15:18:33 <rdieter> any objection to tweaking kde-settings to use that by default on f25+ ?
15:18:56 <pino|work> that's the default, but still can be changed, right?
15:18:57 <rdieter> my only qualm is this is a bit late in f25 dev-cycle for it
15:19:06 * lupinix uses it now for some days again, works fine so fare
15:19:07 <rdieter> pino|work: yes, of course
15:19:08 <lupinix> *far
15:19:19 <pino|work> ok
15:19:26 <rdieter> current default is adwaita
15:20:36 <Kevin_Kofler> IMHO, as long as you ship GTK+ apps on the spin, you ought to include the proper theme for them.
15:20:57 <Kevin_Kofler> This should have always been the default, no matter whether upstream recommended it or not.
15:21:14 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: duly noted
15:21:47 <rdieter> ok, sounds like no objections?  If not, I'll work to implement that after meeting
15:21:59 <lupinix> go on :)
15:22:01 <pino|work> +1
15:22:01 <lupinix> rdieter++
15:22:11 <mbriza> +1
15:22:27 <rdieter> so, as far as kf5-5.27 updates are concerned, currently queue'd for f25 -testing, https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-1fcec97130
15:22:42 <rdieter> though than plans on adding some pim-related CVE fixes to it
15:23:06 <rdieter> we'll do similar batched kf5-5.27.0 updates for f23/f24/epel7 soonish too
15:24:41 <rdieter> oh, one more f25+ specific item:  for f25 and future releases, I opted for a simpler theming approach than before
15:25:05 <rdieter> previously, we'd made a custom per-release plasma/lookandfeel in f24-kde-theme, f23-kde-theme, for example
15:25:37 <rdieter> moving forward, using a single plasma-lookandfeel-fedora, which will always simply use the "default" distro wallpaper
15:25:47 <rdieter> (and system logos)
15:26:13 <rdieter> ie, will use whatever /usr/share/backgrounds/default.png points to
15:27:26 <tosky> so previously the wallpaper matched the "default" distro wallpaper, but it was copied, or it was different?
15:27:28 <rdieter> hopefully means less work for next f26 release
15:27:28 <tibbs> That does seem to be much easier from a maintenance standpoint.
15:27:51 <rdieter> tosky: before, we'd hard-code f24 or f23
15:28:03 <pino|work> indeed, wasn't the default wallpaper already matching the distro theme? o.O
15:28:11 <rdieter> only folks noticing any difference may be f24->f25 upgrades
15:28:25 <rdieter> before upgraders would keep the same f24 theme, for example
15:28:40 <rdieter> now upgraders will (kinda) get the new stuff
15:28:42 <tosky> aah, yeah, I remember now
15:28:45 <pino|work> ah
15:28:57 <rdieter> I say kinda, because plasma stuff is set on first login
15:29:37 <rdieter> this way is a little less flexible too, means we have less options when it comes to theming too
15:29:53 <rdieter> (but hopefully isn't a problem, since we only vary minimally from upstream defaults)
15:30:23 <Kevin_Kofler> I think it makes sense to not have a new Fedora Twenty Something theme at every release.
15:31:23 <rdieter> <nod>, kinda wonder why I hadn't considered this earlier.  <shrug>, I think partly because I didn't understand how it all worked as well before either
15:31:25 <tosky> if it become complicated, or a certain version will require more customization, a specific package can still be introduced, I guess
15:31:35 <rdieter> yeah
15:32:50 <jreznik_> the reason we had this fxx theme was that some people wanted old themes to be available...
15:34:06 <rdieter> jreznik_: I can see that... a little, though since the only difference really is wallpaper, .. changing to and using old wallpapers is already possible, without having to create custom lookandfeel for it
15:34:26 <tibbs> Is it really only the wallpaper that changes between releases?
15:34:40 <rdieter> tibbs: yep
15:34:44 <lupinix> i think so
15:34:58 <than> present
15:35:02 <rdieter> #info than present
15:35:05 <rdieter> #chair than
15:35:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: dvratil jreznik_ lupinix mbriza mbrize pino|work rdieter than tosky
15:35:14 <jreznik_> rdieter: yeah, in the past we had more differences aka own ksplash theme, kdm theme but now it makes sense just to reuse new wp
15:35:23 <rdieter> jreznik_: true
15:36:09 <rdieter> since distro backgrounds always land late, we end up making themes at the last minute
15:36:27 <rdieter> not worth the extra pain and suffering
15:36:34 <jreznik_> I enjoyed it but it was always too late and too much pain
15:36:45 <rdieter> jreznik_: +1, exactly
15:36:46 <tibbs> I guess some might complain because we don't have Fedora-specific branding or something, but the menu icon is more than enough for me.
15:38:19 <rdieter> anything else on kf5 or plasma5 status topics
15:38:21 <rdieter> ?
15:38:22 <jreznik_> tibbs: it always depends on what theming upstream comes with :)
15:38:23 <lupinix> nope
15:38:32 <lupinix> (@rdieter)
15:38:32 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
15:38:38 <rdieter> ok, anything else to discuss today?
15:38:48 <lupinix> nothing here
15:38:52 <tosky> small notice: (even if it is kind of complicated topic)
15:38:52 <jreznik_> I'm good
15:39:15 <tosky> upstream Plasma sent out an email about "please test *applications* on Wayland and report the results"
15:39:48 <tosky> this is more for application developers, but still: https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2016q4/003141.html
15:39:54 <rdieter> I do recall seeing a few (mostly crasher) bugs this past week about apps misbehaving on wayland
15:40:04 <lupinix> i'm already using it with wayland on one machine, works fine
15:40:33 <lupinix> except qupzilla, Kevin_Kofler imho we should enforce qupzilla to start as X application, otherwise it crashes
15:40:33 <tosky> yes, Martin Graesslin mentioned some bugs in QtWayland during Akademy; Qt is more aware now
15:40:35 <jreznik_> mostly usable but slooow, kwin eats a lot of cpu
15:41:00 <Kevin_Kofler> QtWebEngine doesn't support Wayland yet, that is blocking on Chromium, really.
15:41:03 <mbriza> it's possible to run the applications in gnome/wayland too :)
15:41:13 <lupinix> jreznik_: which graphic chipset?
15:41:29 <lupinix> i recognized this with radeon some time ago, was fine with intel
15:41:36 <Kevin_Kofler> You need to build Chromium with Ozone and Ozone-Wayland to get it working on Wayland, and then it won't work on X11 anymore, so not a good plan.
15:41:46 <Kevin_Kofler> There is work going on on an Ozone-X11 backend.
15:41:59 <Kevin_Kofler> Ozone supports switching the backend at "runtime" (application start-up).
15:42:05 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: thanks for the reminder
15:42:14 <Kevin_Kofler> So when that is in, I guess QtWebEngine will be able to make it work.
15:42:29 <rdieter> I suppose that means all apps using QtWebEngine have that same problem, so kdepim (and friends)
15:42:36 <lupinix> can't we force qupzilla to use X even on wayland, not start is native wayland?
15:42:51 <Kevin_Kofler> For now, I guess we have to force xcb at startup of the relevant apps.
15:42:53 <rdieter> lupinix: you can firce it
15:43:10 <jreznik_> lupinix: intel
15:43:11 <Kevin_Kofler> It's an environment variable to set, it can be done programmatically.
15:43:14 <lupinix> Kevin_Kofler: although this is just a workaround
15:43:24 <Kevin_Kofler> But all the affected apps need to do it, not just QupZilla.
15:43:30 <rdieter> a workaround to avoid crashing, is very acceptable in my book
15:43:30 <lupinix> yes
15:43:48 * jreznik_ has to go now...
15:43:54 <Kevin_Kofler> I wonder if it could be done in some static initializer inside libQt5WebEngine.
15:44:12 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: that would be ideal (vs. patching all qtwebengine-using apps)
15:44:23 <rdieter> but either way is fine
15:44:37 <Kevin_Kofler> I'll ask about that in the upstream bug.
15:44:49 <Kevin_Kofler> If upstream doesn't answer, I'll try a downstream hack.
15:44:59 <rdieter> thanks
15:45:40 <Kevin_Kofler> Speaking of QtWebEngine, it'd be great if we could get the Nouveau locking fixes applied in the Fedora nouveau package.
15:45:47 <Kevin_Kofler> .bug 1376107
15:45:47 <zodbot> Kevin_Kofler: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1376107
15:45:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Bug 1376107 - kmail etc crash with 16.08.1 using nouveau
15:46:19 <Markus_KMi> 17:32 <jreznik_> the reason we had this fxx theme was that some people wanted old themes to be available...
15:46:19 <Markus_KMi> – store.kde.org
15:47:49 <Kevin_Kofler> https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-54038?focusedCommentId=334106&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-334106
15:47:57 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: +1 there too, though I can understand not wanting to patch anything until the fixes are accepted upstream first
15:49:09 <rdieter> anything else ?
15:49:49 <Kevin_Kofler> Calamares 2.4.1 is now headed to F24 stable updates.
15:49:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Finally a modern version of Calamares.
15:50:01 <lupinix> Kevin_Kofler++
15:50:01 <zodbot> lupinix: Karma for kkofler changed to 3 (for the f24 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:50:05 <lupinix> will test soon
15:50:31 <lupinix> have to prepare customized installation images for university anyway
15:50:55 <Kevin_Kofler> LUKS full disk encryption with Calamares is not supported on Fedora (dracut) yet, but as far as I can tell, not that much is missing.
15:51:13 <Kevin_Kofler> So I hope that I'll have an update with that for testing soon, too.
15:51:25 <rdieter> <offtopic>my pokemon go pokedex is complete as of this weekend (minus legendary and geographic-specific ones of course)</offtopic>  (last one was chancey)
15:51:38 <lupinix> :D
15:52:02 <Markus_KMi> the Plymouth Breeze theme is easily tweakable
15:52:03 * lupinix still plays pokemon using his shiny game boy color :P
15:52:10 <Markus_KMi> in case anybody cares
15:52:16 <tosky> rdieter: oooooooooooooooooooooh
15:52:57 <rdieter> Markus_KMi: I'm not aware of anyone testing that much, someday we probably should try harder, and consider using it by default on kde spin
15:53:36 <Markus_KMi> is there a monochrome Fedora logo somewhere?
15:53:46 <Markus_KMi> or should I make one myself?
15:54:36 <rdieter> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines
15:54:45 <rdieter> Markus_KMi: I see some options there
15:55:12 <Markus_KMi> the theme comes with Plasma, Neon, and openSUSE logos by default. I did not read the guidelines yet but if upstreaming was possible, it'd be great
15:55:33 <rdieter> not sure if the monochrome one is packaged and installed anywhere by default though
15:56:22 <Kevin_Kofler> Upstreaming the logo is not possible.
15:56:35 <Markus_KMi> "Request the Fedora Logo Files"…
15:56:36 <Kevin_Kofler> Even in Fedora, packages other than fedora-logos are not allowed to carry it.
15:56:45 <Markus_KMi> not even a public download
15:56:46 <Markus_KMi> me
15:56:49 <Markus_KMi> h
15:57:01 <Kevin_Kofler> A Fedora Remix must not contain any copy of the logo, let alone other distros / operating systems.
15:57:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Blame Red Hat Legal for the restrictive trademark policies.
15:57:21 <Kevin_Kofler> KDE has a much saner policy.
15:57:32 <rdieter> s/Red Hat Legal/trademark law/
15:57:56 <Kevin_Kofler> Other projects are bound by the same laws and have more permissive policies.
15:58:17 <rdieter> they apparently don't care as much about protecting it
15:58:20 <Kevin_Kofler> Mozilla is the main other offender.
15:59:12 <rdieter> easy to criticize if you don't understand the rules
15:59:24 <pino|work> ba-dum-tss
15:59:39 * lupinix has to leave now
15:59:41 <lupinix> bye
15:59:56 <rdieter> we're out of time anyway,  thanks everyone
16:00:00 <rdieter> #endmeeting