18:00:41 <mattdm> #startmeeting Council (2017-01-16)
18:00:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 16 18:00:41 2017 UTC.  The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:41 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2017-01-16)'
18:00:43 <mattdm> #meetingname council
18:00:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
18:00:45 <mattdm> #chair mattdm jkurik jwb langdon robyduck tatica bexelbie
18:00:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie jkurik jwb langdon mattdm robyduck tatica
18:00:47 <mattdm> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
18:00:55 <bexelbie> .hello bex
18:00:56 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
18:01:06 <mattdm> good $TIMEOFDAY, everyone!
18:01:19 <jkurik> .hello jkurik
18:01:19 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com>
18:02:01 <jwb> i'm about to hop on a call.  definitely won't be attending today unfortunately.  maybe you could discuss shifting the time an hour later or something
18:02:22 <mattdm> jwb: Yeah, plan is to reschedule meeting entirely after today's election concludes
18:02:51 <langdon> .hello langdon
18:02:52 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@fishjump.com>
18:03:00 <mattdm> jwb: can you check the logs and vote in ticket after?
18:03:27 * mattdm waits a few minutes to see if robyduck is around
18:04:07 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
18:04:08 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
18:04:54 <mattdm> excellent
18:05:00 <mattdm> #topic Agenda
18:05:08 <mattdm> I've picked out these tickets:
18:05:12 <mattdm> 1. Trademark approval for LXQt spin
18:05:14 <mattdm> 2. Budget Reallocation (FADs and FUDCons)
18:05:16 <mattdm> 3. Reimbursement issues
18:05:18 <mattdm> 4. PRDs and overall strategy
18:05:54 <bexelbie> 2 and 3 will be fast
18:06:45 <mattdm> does anyone have anyhting else to add?
18:07:03 <robyduck> nope
18:07:18 <mattdm> ok let's go :)
18:07:20 <langdon> umm
18:07:23 <langdon> one, maybe
18:07:30 <mattdm> langdon?
18:07:40 <langdon> "council get together in brno" if we have greater than 3-4 people?
18:07:55 <mattdm> robyduck, will you be there?
18:08:19 <robyduck> mattdm: that depends if I will be still Council member or not
18:08:38 <mattdm> robyduck: oh yeah, good point. :)
18:08:45 <robyduck> ;)
18:08:54 <mattdm> So, depending on election outcome, we will have more than 4
18:09:04 <mattdm> okay I'll put this as agenda item #5.
18:09:12 <mattdm> #topic Trademark approval for LXQt spin
18:09:14 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/84
18:09:53 <mattdm> This has several plus ones in ticket. It seems non-controversial.
18:10:05 <mattdm> I'm going to call for a 3-day lazy consensus. Sound good?
18:10:12 <jkurik> I am +1 (for the record)
18:10:50 <bexelbie> +1 the lazy conensus
18:11:24 <robyduck> +1 for me too, but this will involve many other teams too, once we have the trademark approval
18:11:56 <mattdm> robyduck: yeah, this is just the trademark approval part.
18:11:59 <mattdm> okay next topic :)
18:12:04 <mattdm> #topic Budget Reallocation (FADs and FUDCons)
18:12:05 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/83
18:12:07 <mattdm> bex go :)
18:12:29 <bexelbie> I haven't made a huge amount of progress - mechanical budget work has taken longer than hoped
18:12:39 <bexelbie> I have the data collected for analysis on the policy
18:12:42 <bexelbie> just need to have time
18:12:47 <langdon> btw.. mattdm don't you have 3 +1s on the spin ticket?
18:13:06 <mattdm> langdon: yeah but needs to be no -1s and jwb still could come along and nix it
18:13:11 <mattdm> or tomorrow's new council member
18:13:11 <bexelbie> on the alternative methods, I have been testing them and so far no troubles
18:13:22 <langdon> mattdm, ohh.. right.. totally.. language was just a little confusing
18:13:25 <bexelbie> Again, just needs policy work
18:13:31 <mattdm> langdon: sorry
18:14:08 <mattdm> bexelbie: wait, I think you're ahead of the agenda
18:14:20 <mattdm> this is the "move fad money around" thing
18:14:21 <langdon> mattdm, i think i was just behind :)
18:14:22 <bexelbie> you said go
18:14:23 <bexelbie> I went :)
18:14:25 <bexelbie> sorry
18:14:35 <bexelbie> yeah .. so #3 is done
18:14:38 <mattdm> go _on this topic_ :)
18:14:38 <bexelbie> now for #2 :P
18:14:44 <mattdm> ermagerd
18:14:53 <bexelbie> going and going on a specific topic
18:14:56 <bexelbie> so totally different
18:15:06 <bexelbie> so the ticket is pretty complete
18:15:19 <bexelbie> we have unspent money in FUDCons that I'd like to move to FADs
18:15:27 <mattdm> ticket 83, that is :)
18:15:27 <bexelbie> I'll balance out Flock later once the regions are done
18:15:33 <langdon> do we have any comments from APAC?
18:15:55 <gnokii> what comment you want
18:15:58 <langdon> like they didn't underspend by design?
18:16:06 <langdon> s/they/you ;)
18:16:06 <bexelbie> I was not on the council when the money was allocated, but based on the way the additional budget for LATAM was approved, this is council money to move, not regional money, aiui
18:16:17 <bexelbie> langdon, this is not related to their regional budget
18:16:20 <mattdm> bexelbie: this is *just* moving council-level FUDCon/FAD allocation money, right?
18:16:26 <bexelbie> mattdm, that is correct
18:16:27 <mattdm> oh you just answered that :)
18:16:30 <bexelbie> no regional funds are being adjusted
18:16:31 <langdon> gotcha .. ok
18:17:03 <langdon> then i guess im +1 .. i can't see how this isnt pretty much perfunctory
18:17:10 <mattdm> In that case, I think this is just accounting blah blah blah and doesn't require much more than a rubber stamp
18:17:23 <langdon> mattdm++ for stamps!
18:17:23 <zodbot> langdon: Karma for mattdm changed to 7 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
18:17:29 <bexelbie> mattdm, that rubber stamp is a +1 from the council :)
18:17:35 <mattdm> bexelbie: yep :)
18:17:46 <langdon> but.. my w/c sounded smahtah
18:17:48 <bexelbie> This is reallocating funds and increasing our FADs budget so I feel it has importance
18:18:43 <bexelbie> On a related note, I don't think we will have any more of these for this FY
18:18:49 <langdon> i assume the q for what to do with the 1k is the matter of another ticket?
18:19:04 <bexelbie> langdon, actually we already allocated it :)
18:19:11 <bexelbie> that is why I am closing the loop
18:19:19 <langdon> bexelbie, not per the ticket
18:19:21 <bexelbie> The diversity FAD is pushing the FADs negative
18:19:27 <bexelbie> diversity FAD was approved a while back
18:19:32 <langdon> says some for diversity.. and some for "other stuff"
18:19:34 <bexelbie> when we didn't realize how much had already been spent in FADs
18:19:38 <langdon> i meant the "other stuff"
18:20:03 <bexelbie> $1132.19 to FADs to cover parts of the Diversity FAD which is already approved and to leave a balance toward additional FADs or prepayment for next year's FADs (possibly the Council FAD)
18:20:51 <langdon> bexelbie, i think we are just talking past each other here.. i read that as open ended, i think you read it as closed
18:21:05 <langdon> but i am fine reading it with your interpretation
18:21:25 <bexelbie> langdon, ok .. I am not actually sure we are even talking about the same thing
18:21:33 <mattdm> let me know when you guys are unconfused
18:21:38 <bexelbie> as I read it this is covering the shortfall in the Diversity FAD allocation
18:21:48 <bexelbie> and leaving a balance which could be allocated by the council at a later date
18:22:01 <bexelbie> with the suggestion that it might be used to prepay Council FAD expenses in FY18
18:22:09 <bexelbie> but not allocating it as such
18:22:15 <langdon> "additional FADs or prepayment for next year's FADs" < this reads to me as "some fads to be decided on later" .. and i was commenting "we will have new tickets when those fads are proposed, right?"
18:22:37 <bexelbie> langdon, yes, we would
18:22:44 <langdon> so we are good
18:22:49 <bexelbie> I didn't read your "other stuff" comment that way
18:22:54 <bexelbie> which is what I was trying to understand
18:23:08 <bexelbie> yep, we are good
18:23:21 <langdon> bexelbie, yep.. hence why i thought we were talking past each other ;)
18:23:27 <langdon> "words are hard"
18:24:42 * mattdm didn't think he was confused before but is now
18:25:06 <langdon> mattdm, just nod and smile.. we are good
18:25:09 <bexelbie> "Confused? You won't be after this episode of Fedora Council."
18:25:10 <langdon> next topic :)
18:25:29 * mattdm nods
18:25:31 * mattdm smiles
18:25:39 <mattdm> #topic Reimbursement issues
18:25:41 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/76
18:25:43 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/77
18:25:45 <mattdm> ok bexelbie NOW this stuff
18:25:55 <bexelbie> Both of these are still in progress.
18:26:06 <mattdm> do you want the tickets still open?
18:26:08 <bexelbie> data has been collected for working on a reimbursement policy
18:26:18 <bexelbie> experimentation going on for alternative payment methods
18:26:29 <bexelbie> I think it can't hurt, but if we need them closed I am ok with closing them too
18:26:46 <mattdm> I'd like tickets to either have activity/updates or be closed
18:26:46 <bexelbie> I see the tickets are representing ongoing work
18:26:54 <bexelbie> works forme
18:26:57 <bexelbie> for me too
18:27:15 <robyduck> mattdm: +1
18:27:21 <bexelbie> Shall I add activity or close them?
18:27:29 <mattdm> Yes.
18:27:32 <mattdm> Yes you should. :)
18:27:33 * langdon notes mattdm thinks like a maintenance programmer/sys admin ;)
18:27:56 <mattdm> I'll take that as a complement :)
18:28:03 <langdon> tickets MUST BE CLOSED.. glen gary glen ross quote
18:28:10 <langdon> always be closing!
18:28:21 <bexelbie> always be reopening
18:28:23 <bexelbie> use onlly 1 ticket
18:28:26 <bexelbie> no matter what
18:28:40 * langdon notes bexelbie and langdon think like architects.. where everything is kinda squishy
18:28:45 <mattdm> I mean, it's fine if there's a backlog somewhere. But we can have only so many things on our plate.
18:28:53 <mattdm> Limit WiP, yall
18:29:26 <bexelbie> should we have a backlog tag?
18:29:29 * langdon is giggling over here seeing these discreet examples of psych profiles ;)
18:29:36 <bexelbie> to indicate important but not on deck?
18:29:48 <langdon> bexelbie, you should close them.. or matt is gonna not be able to sleep and come to your house
18:29:56 <langdon> open a new ticket when next action is available
18:30:03 <mattdm> lol
18:30:03 <bexelbie> works for me
18:30:06 <langdon> track ongoing work as a separate matter
18:30:17 <mattdm> there's a bazillion things which are important but not on deck
18:30:23 <mattdm> labeling them will just make us sad.
18:30:32 <langdon> -1 for sadness..
18:30:40 <mattdm> exactly!
18:30:52 * langdon goes to open an anti-sadness ticket
18:30:59 <mattdm> so speaking of which...
18:31:06 <mattdm> #topic PRDs and overall strategy
18:31:08 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/63
18:31:22 <mattdm> The top two things on *my* todo list right now are:
18:31:34 <mattdm> 1. Rework Fedora objectives page, rethink mission with council
18:31:50 <mattdm> 2. Remind WGs of importance of PRDs and refresh of strategy
18:31:56 <mattdm> #2 is actually first.
18:32:14 <mattdm> But, I think it'd be *better* to do #1 first.
18:32:22 <mattdm> Brian and I have been talking about this a little bit
18:32:32 <mattdm> and it's one of the main purposes fo the planned council fad
18:32:38 <bexelbie> #1 feels like a blocker on a lot of processes
18:32:48 <bexelbie> but Council FAD
18:33:06 <robyduck> are there any ideas of rethinking the mission?
18:33:10 <mattdm> yeah. So what I'm doing here is saying that I had an action item to do #2, but I'm bumping it to the backlog
18:33:24 <mattdm> robyduck: you mean, specific ones?
18:33:29 <robyduck> yes
18:33:47 <mattdm> So, here's my basic thoughts...
18:33:48 <robyduck> I mean, if there are some the Council could work them out
18:33:57 <mattdm> Our mission is: to lead the advancement of Free and open source software and content as a collaborative community.
18:34:03 <mattdm> at least, that's the current statement.
18:34:10 <robyduck> yup
18:34:32 <mattdm> But, in 2017, if we sat down and started from scratch to do that, *what sane person would say "the best way is to build a linux distro!"
18:34:53 <mattdm> At the same time, I think we *do* want to build a linux distro AND have good reasons to do so
18:34:59 <mattdm> But that's not articulated in our mission.
18:35:15 <mattdm> I think we should move some of the more grand statements to our vision statement
18:35:31 <robyduck> aha, gotcha
18:35:36 <mattdm> and connect our stated mission a little more closely with what we're here to do
18:35:40 <mattdm> Does that make sense?
18:35:59 <jkurik> now it makes sense even to me :)
18:36:04 <bexelbie> +100
18:36:06 <mattdm> jkurik: nice :)
18:36:18 <robyduck> yes, time has changed since our actual mission statement, we *could* really work out something more artuclated
18:36:24 <robyduck> articulated even
18:37:14 <mattdm> Yeah, that's the other thing — I think the current one is from 2009/2010, and it's good to take a critical look every... decade or so :)
18:37:19 <robyduck> and I think having an updated mission would also give us some marketing plus outside. which is always a good thing
18:37:46 <mattdm> yeah, good point
18:38:44 <bexelbie> and could help us with our own marketing and community/user growth
18:38:55 <mattdm> I hope we can have something where we can draw a logic model for the project overall, and have all of the parts work
18:39:25 <mattdm> I'm still drafting my "hopes for 2017" FPL message... Do you think I should put this as part of it, or should I start a separate discussion?
18:39:38 <bexelbie> I think you should tease it
18:39:44 <bexelbie> and then make it separate
18:39:50 <mattdm> *nod* good suggestion
18:39:52 <bexelbie> and that should go to comm blog
18:39:55 <bexelbie> the 2017
18:39:58 <bexelbie> with the tease I mean
18:40:06 <mattdm> also good suggestion
18:40:14 <langdon> definitely separate.. and arguably.. not the 2nd part at all
18:40:16 <langdon> we want some level of organic discussion
18:40:22 <langdon> commblog should also have the accomplishments stuff
18:40:26 <mattdm> this message is #3 on my list
18:40:38 <mattdm> langdon: the 2016 in review stuff I already posted?
18:40:53 <langdon> mattdm, on commblog? i saw the email.. not the blog post
18:41:12 <mattdm> It didn't get, like, any response on the council list, so putting it on the comm blog is probably a good way for it to get a little more attention
18:41:34 <langdon> arguably.. that is one for magazine ..
18:41:40 <langdon> as it is about "users" .. sorta
18:41:47 <mattdm> it's mixed
18:41:50 <bexelbie> I can easily see this on magazine
18:42:03 <mattdm> bexelbie: the 2017 part, the 2016 review, or the mission?
18:42:06 * bexelbie is working on the next installment of FCAIC news - will let mag and commblog decide where it runs
18:42:20 <bexelbie> I'd tease mission in 2017
18:42:28 <bexelbie> then put it where you want the discussion to be
18:42:35 <bexelbie> and tell them where it will be in the teaser
18:42:42 <mattdm> I *definitely* want the discussion to be on the council list
18:42:42 <bexelbie> so if you want to do it in blog comments, put it there
18:42:47 <bexelbie> then put it there first
18:42:49 <mattdm> I do not want to do it in blog comments
18:42:57 <bexelbie> after it gets somewhat baked you can move it to a bigger crowd
18:43:02 <bexelbie> I think
18:43:10 <mattdm> yeah.
18:43:44 <mattdm> okay, so, do we want to have a separate #topic for "possible meeting in brno"?
18:43:48 <bexelbie> it's what I'd like to do with the events conversations
18:43:55 <mattdm> bexelbie++
18:44:06 <bexelbie> once they gel (that's the word)
18:44:42 <bexelbie> I can get us a non-devconf overlapping space if we know when people will be in Brno
18:44:51 <bexelbie> or can work to get us an overlapping one if we'd prefer
18:45:20 <mattdm> #topic possible meeting in brno
18:45:30 <jkurik> I will not be in Brno during DevConf this year (some personal/family issues), having a meeting a day before/after the devconf helps me
18:45:44 <langdon> Sorry dropped hook for a min there
18:46:39 <mattdm> I will be there from late on the 24th (but jetlagged) and leave monday the 30th
18:46:43 <bexelbie> Would the Monday after work?
18:46:46 <langdon> I'm there for basically the two weeks around DevConf
18:46:46 <bexelbie> so no
18:47:16 <langdon> Why not a dinner like we did some other time?
18:47:24 <bexelbie> 25th dinner?
18:47:44 <jkurik> +1 for the 25th dinner
18:47:55 <langdon> DOW?
18:48:01 <mattdm> 25th dinner sounds good. I'm already booked for dinner and *breakfast* on the 26th
18:48:05 <bexelbie> Wed
18:48:24 <langdon> I think that works
18:48:36 <bexelbie> Anyone else in Brno (pending mystery council person in a few days)
18:48:38 <bexelbie> ?
18:49:02 <langdon> I think jwb will be there
18:49:07 <jkurik> bexelbie: s/days/hours/
18:49:33 <bexelbie> jkurik, microseconds please :P
18:49:47 <jkurik> :)
18:49:50 <bexelbie> it is sounding like 25 dinner or during devconf
18:50:00 <bexelbie> barring a lunch on 25 (/me is probably booked on 26 already)
18:50:36 <bexelbie> jkurik, do you think we'd need a reservation - I would hope we could walk in to most places (barring food challenges
18:51:12 <jkurik> bexelbie: I am typically making reservations as you never know ....
18:51:15 * langdon is a food challenge
18:51:27 * mattdm votes for Annapurna
18:51:35 <bexelbie> langdon, will that work for you?
18:51:39 <bexelbie> jkurik, ^^?
18:51:44 <langdon> Not as bad as mattdm though
18:51:53 <langdon> Yeah
18:51:55 <jkurik> bexelbie: you mean Annapurna ?
18:52:02 <jkurik> it works for me
18:52:04 <bexelbie> jkurik, yes
18:52:05 <bexelbie> ok
18:52:21 <bexelbie> what time do people want to eat?
18:52:47 <mattdm> I will still be jetlagged so time is no object
18:53:12 <langdon> Well we want to meet a it too? Or just social?
18:53:25 <langdon> "a bit"
18:53:48 <bexelbie> I am ok with meeting too
18:53:56 <bexelbie> they don't have a private room, iirc
18:53:57 <langdon> Maybe like 5.. And order slowly..
18:54:10 <jkurik> bexelbie: I am flexible with my eating habbits :)
18:54:10 <robyduck> we should meet and do some concrete stuff whch is faster to do face to face
18:54:11 <mattdm> if we're obnoxious enough, any room will be a private room
18:54:13 <langdon> I don't think we need that.. But wifi would be nice
18:54:26 <bexelbie> I recall them having wifi
18:54:42 <bexelbie> worst case I can make you all sit on my uncomfortable chairs
18:54:43 <bexelbie> :P
18:54:54 <mattdm> I can stand.
18:55:15 <mattdm> okay, so I actually have one interesting other nonrelated thing
18:55:27 <mattdm> #topic note on fedora stats kaiju
18:55:34 <langdon> 5m! go!
18:55:47 <mattdm> smooge has been looking at the automated fedora stats
18:56:20 <mattdm> one big concern I had was an apparent big drop in numbers in 2016 (which we're back up over, but i liked to see continuous growth)
18:56:45 * langdon thinks council should have a badge for when people do stuff for the council
18:56:47 <mattdm> it seems like this is at least in some significant part to two new proxy servers being added -- but their logs not captured
18:57:00 <mattdm> langdon++ yes good idea
18:57:28 <mattdm> so, i386 drop may still be a thing, but overall, that big kaiju bite (too big to be a dinosaur, see) may be explained
18:57:38 <langdon> Lol
18:58:13 <mattdm> #topic One Minute for Open Floor
18:58:16 <mattdm> go!
18:59:02 <robyduck> me!
18:59:06 <mattdm> robyduck: go! :)
18:59:38 <robyduck> just wanted to tank you all for the nice experience here, and hopeful to see you next week too, otherwise at next FLOCK!!!
18:59:48 <mattdm> thanks robyduck!
19:00:00 <mattdm> thanks for all your hard work on everything!
19:00:05 <langdon> Robyduck++
19:00:10 <robyduck> ;)
19:00:34 <bexelbie> robyduck++
19:00:34 <zodbot> bexelbie: Karma for robyduck changed to 8 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
19:00:57 * langdon wonders if case matters
19:01:04 <robyduck> mmmh cookies
19:01:10 <langdon> robyduck++
19:01:16 <mattdm> nice. and thanks everyone else too
19:01:23 <mattdm> langdon: one cookie per cycle :)
19:01:23 <robyduck> cheers
19:01:27 <mattdm> #endmeeting