13:02:34 #startmeeting Council (2017-09-27) 13:02:34 Meeting started Wed Sep 27 13:02:34 2017 UTC. The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:02:34 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 13:02:34 The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2017-09-27)' 13:02:35 #meetingname council 13:02:35 The meeting name has been set to 'council' 13:02:37 #chair mattdm jkurik jwb langdon robyduck bexelbie jwf stefw 13:02:37 Current chairs: bexelbie jkurik jwb jwf langdon mattdm robyduck stefw 13:02:39 #topic Introductions, Welcomes 13:02:43 .hello bex 13:02:44 bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' 13:02:46 present 13:02:53 morning everyone! 13:03:01 hello :) 13:03:23 .hello jflory7 13:03:23 .hello2 13:03:23 jwf|matrix: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' 13:03:26 jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' 13:03:30 mattdm: i have to plead off today.. conflicting meeting i forgot to send a note about.. i can probably answer if pinged 13:03:46 langdon: Ok -- will ping if needed 13:04:08 apologies 13:04:13 i know robyduck is around too because he just said something in another channel :) 13:04:16 #topic Today's Open Floor Agenda 13:04:17 * bexelbie will definitely not just randomly say langdon 13:04:36 This is the part where we collect agenda items. 13:04:48 Then I'll put them in order and we'll talk about each one 13:05:04 and I'll try to keep individual things from running too long 13:05:09 Suggestions I have are: 13:05:21 * bexelbie is going to be on vacation and afk for several weeks 13:05:51 * we did well with Flock fund raising, plus we seem to have scared people from spending any money. we should make sure to not squander what we have 13:05:59 * mindshare initiative proposal / mindshare fad 13:06:09 * the public money / public code request 13:06:20 * freenode live conference 13:06:38 Any other things? 13:06:49 Not all of the above are of equal importance or time :) 13:07:17 not that I can think of 13:07:26 * bexelbie looks through ticket list 13:07:38 Seems a solid list to me. 13:08:32 okay, let's do it. throw more stuff on at the end in the unlikely event we have remaining time :) 13:08:34 +1 solid list 13:08:36 #topic Bex on Vacation 13:08:38 there's a ticket on a Flock registration reimbursement that claims it was 69USD. that seems ... wrong 13:08:54 jwb, link please 13:09:07 #undo 13:09:07 Removing item from minutes: 13:09:15 .fas robyduck 13:09:16 robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' 13:09:16 #topic Flock Registration reimbursement request 13:09:58 I think this is due to the cost of living index used 13:10:17 none went that high 13:10:27 also, the only cancellations we got all didn't want refunds 13:10:43 one sec 13:10:53 I read that as co-pay 13:11:06 https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/issue/44 13:11:08 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-budget/issue/44 13:11:19 jwb ah no wodner I couldn't find it 13:11:38 I have let this person know that we need to finish flock finances before we can make a decision 13:11:49 I was going to bring it to the council with the others when I got back 13:11:52 bexelbie: okay, so that goes to: 13:11:54 we've been talking for several months about this 13:11:56 #topic Bex on Vacation 13:11:59 * bexelbie and this person 13:12:32 i was more scratching my head on why it was such a high claim. seemed wrong. if it's covered already, great. 13:12:46 ok, so does this need action before you get back from vacation? 13:13:00 mattdm, not as far as I know 13:13:13 jwb, this person is asking for flock to refund them the copay they volunteered to make at the time of registration 13:13:27 oh, i see 13:13:47 When they registered they asked for funding for all but $100 - I am not sure why they are now listing $69 13:13:55 #info The co-pay refund ticket will wait for bexelbie to return 13:14:03 but I've told them this wouldn't normally be possible and that I'd need to finish the books for flock and then ask the council 13:14:10 They started asking before flock 13:14:19 #info mattdm is going to try to cover other money-related tasks until bexelbie gets back 13:14:32 bexelbie: are there other things you need coverage for while you are gone? 13:14:40 * bexelbie hopes not 13:14:45 * jkurik will not be on vacations, however he will be unavailable for Council meetings during October and November 13:14:50 I'll have limited email access, but no laptop 13:15:06 ok. I'll try to avoid emailing you :) 13:15:43 #topic Fedora budget: spending the remaining FY18 money intelligently 13:15:54 So, we did well at fundraising for Flock 13:16:16 Plus, our talk about spending our money strategically seems to have resulted in people being scared to spend at all 13:16:42 can you elaborate on "did well at fundraising for Flock"? 13:16:50 jwb: bexelbie can... 13:17:55 #info mattdm would like to see 1) FADs working on advancing our current objectives 2) Marketing events specifically aimed at the target audiences for Workstation, Server, and Atomic Host 13:17:55 we collected $15K in sponsorships that offset about $12K in costs 13:18:01 costs we would have normally incurred 13:18:04 mattdm: Has there been a slowdown of events organized by Ambassadors? 13:18:17 $3K (it may be less) is a cost incurred because of the sponsored event 13:18:32 jwf|matrix, yes 13:18:35 imo 13:18:47 * jwf|matrix nods 13:19:10 hm 13:19:10 jwf|matrix: seems to be, yeah -- although this is also partly related to ambassadors struggling with direction and organziation overall 13:19:13 we also accepted GSoC money this year which has not been fully spent 13:19:18 At least for NA, I'm worried it might actually not be a budget problem but participation problem 13:19:20 Yeah. 13:19:30 jwf|matrix, I believe that to be true for most regions 13:19:46 so I don't disagree with 2, but given the state of flux around Server, and the assertion that nobody uses Server as Server, i have no idea what audience they'd aim an event at 13:19:47 yes, the same in EMEA 13:19:48 * mattdm needs to step away for a few minutes. brb. sorry. 13:20:22 jwb: at changing that assertion, I think 13:20:36 either by getting better information on problems the audience wants solved 13:20:42 generating more user interest 13:20:47 or generating greater involvement 13:21:27 bexelbie: :P 13:21:29 mattdm: maybe so, sure. but we're barreling down a very specific path for Server in 27. i think any event in the near term would need to be spreading awareness of that, and then getting data on if it helps any particular audience 13:21:40 mattdm: which is... a hard event to hold 13:22:27 robyduck: Just curious, since I think you've been to some of the EMEA ones before, what your opinion on Ambassador organizational FADs are. 13:22:57 I don't know of any that have happened recently but I understand they used to be annually in EMEA 13:23:15 jwf|matrix: they made much more sense when budgeting was still a regional thing 13:23:17 * mattdm is back 13:23:35 I would be +1 ambassador event strategy fads - if they resulted in events being planned 13:23:36 robyduck: So they were mostly focused on budget and finances? 13:23:44 The benefit of a FAD is it can force time into people's schedules 13:23:44 we hold them annually in the past and we decided which events to attend and how much money to spend on them, attendance, swags etc 13:23:49 bexelbie: Yeah, this is the direction I was leaning 13:23:52 jwb Yeah, hard but not unique 13:24:11 We area already planning a small ambassador's presence at LISA https://www.usenix.org/conference/lisa17 13:24:21 yes, right. Each country prevented their events for the next year, the others had to be approved later 13:24:22 brb 13:24:24 which is October 29th. That would be a good NA event 13:24:36 and the Open Source Summit is roughly the same time in Prague 13:24:37 robyduck: Hmm, but even if the budgeting process has changed, regions still have to do a lot of this work, no? 13:24:55 mattdm: To hold a FAD at LISA, you mean? 13:25:18 jwf|matrix: I was thinking to do some Fedora Modular Server marketing 13:25:29 Ahh, ahh, I see 13:25:53 sgallagh: ^ see this idea for later discussion :) 13:26:03 I'm definitely in favor of regional planning FADs 13:26:24 mattdm: Which idea? LISA? 13:26:24 Not just for events, but "how is this region going to be successful" 13:26:47 sgallagh: yeah. not necessarily you being there, but figuring out how to have a marketing package for Modular Server for then 13:26:56 hooboy 13:27:06 sgallagh: also same thing at OSS Prague 13:27:10 That'll be ambitious for LISA 13:27:27 Given our current schedule, we may or may not have a Beta available at that point 13:27:35 mattdm: To your previous idea of wanting to see more FADs working on objectives, I think this would be something for us to incorporate into a reworked FAD template to guide organizers in the right direction. 13:27:48 jwf++ 13:27:48 mattdm: Karma for jflory7 changed to 23 (for the f26 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 13:28:03 I can try to find more cycles in the next couple of weeks to work on that 13:28:12 jwf|matrix: that would be awesome and very helpful. 13:28:53 The other thing bexelbie and I were thinking about is doing a swag spend. 13:29:01 Getting stuff into the hands of contributors, specifically 13:29:20 Okay, great. I'll try to have something around mid-October, tentatively, and then we can pick it apart and try to get a polished template to deliver 13:29:29 * bexelbie would also like to consider some event swag purchases to take advantage of scaled cost savings. I don't believe any region but EMEA does that well now. 13:29:35 I have a Fedora coffee mug from some long-ago FUDCon that people are often jealous of :) 13:29:46 they just want your coffee 13:29:52 #action jwf Continue working on a revamped FAD organizational template for delivering around mid-October 13:29:58 it is good coffee. equal exchange fair trade :) 13:30:09 mattdm: Could you expand a bit on that? 13:30:16 Every day I walk to work I see a Fedora coffee mug on a balcony of a random house. I have no idea who's behind it. 13:30:42 Rhea: and you haven't swiped it :) 13:30:53 jwf|matrix: expand on coffee? :) 13:31:07 A few years ago, Fedora made these "10 years of Fedora" shirts 13:31:24 and gave them to people identified as having been active in Fedora for... well, at least almost 10 years 13:31:38 Ahhh, yeah, now I understand. 13:31:56 I think it would be nice for morale to send a little care package to the top N current contributors 13:32:00 however we define 'top N' 13:32:23 and maybe a smaller thing (bundle of stickers, etc.) to the several-thousand with some activity at all 13:32:26 Yeah, I think it would be a morale booster. 13:32:46 plus then of course whatever add-on marketing effects of showing that stuff off 13:33:48 okay, any more on the $$$$ topic? 13:33:55 I assume none of this would be a "surprise" gifts, regarding logistics of address collection 13:34:23 Need to go AFK for a couple minutes, be right back 13:34:30 jwf|matrix: true. We'd have to ask. 13:34:57 I recently hit a high reputation score threshold on a Stack Exchange site, and they send me a nice mail saying they'd like my address to send me something 13:34:58 yes, people would have the 13:35:01 gift 13:35:11 I was not offended at all :) 13:35:26 the actual contents can be somewhat of a surprise 13:35:36 Live spiders! For everyone! 13:35:50 *cough* 13:35:55 #topic Mindshare Initiative 13:36:05 #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/142 13:36:05 Note: Please keep the penguin in a cool environment 13:36:13 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mindshare 13:36:29 have people gotten a chance to read and digest this? 13:36:42 I have to admit I only had time to skim it and not really think deeply 13:36:45 which I want to do :) 13:36:57 * bexelbie has skimmed as well 13:37:38 i have not 13:38:00 I just skimmed it as well 13:38:21 okay, so, I guess this is homework for us all :) 13:38:30 robyduck: thanks for working on this 13:38:54 robyduck also filed a currently-private ticket to discuss a mindshare fad, which seems like part 2 of this homework :) 13:39:20 #action everyone: please read this and develop opinions and feedback for robyduck 13:39:40 #topic Public Money / Public Code 13:39:54 #link https://publiccode.eu/ 13:40:17 also this message to the Council mailing list 13:40:20 #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/5DLHFG4UUWP3E5L4FA5HUKCGDVYC5KXN/ 13:40:44 basically this is an open letter to governments requesting that government-funded software be open source 13:41:08 I'm not sure this kind of thing is particularly *effective* 13:41:31 but at the same time, it's certainly in line with Fedora values and something I have no problem with us supporting 13:42:17 I think it's an ethical match for Fedora. I can't say I've read it too heavily other than things I've seen mentioned in the last week or two. 13:42:58 * jwb shrugs 13:43:01 Anyone *opposed* to me emailing them at the address https://publiccode.eu/#organisations and having Fedora added to the list? 13:43:08 i'm fine with it. i think it will result in nothing 13:43:19 I am +1 to support 13:43:20 jwb: yeah 13:43:32 I'm +1 to support as well 13:43:36 #action mattdm to contact public money public code to add fedora 13:43:49 #topic Freenode live 13:43:49 \o/ 13:43:53 and the open letter is generic enough that i'm fine with support it too. e.g. it doesn't prescribe a specific license, etc 13:43:59 #undo 13:43:59 Removing item from minutes: 13:44:22 +1 on general terms of statement being easy for us to support. 13:44:25 #topic Freenode live 13:44:37 I've been asked to speak at this conference, so I will :) 13:45:08 It is apparently a general FLOSS summit kind of thing, not specifically three days of intense discussion about IRC 13:45:26 mattdm: Do you have any kind of details about what's happening at the conference? 13:45:26 +1 to publiccode 13:45:28 * bexelbie lagged 13:45:30 The web page is pretty scant 13:45:52 #link https://freenode.live/ 13:45:55 jwf|matrix, did you see https://freenode.live/ ? 13:46:00 jinx 13:46:06 I couldn't tell what the focus or purpose of the conference was other than to get open source people in the same room 13:46:06 do you have *that* web page? It seems to be weirdly hard to find from the main freenode page 13:46:13 I did, unless it's changed very recently 13:46:40 jwf|matrix: yeah, I think that is basically it 13:46:52 This is not particularly in line with what we've being talking about wrt strategic spending 13:47:07 The web page just seemed very vague about the conference. I was just having a hard time seeing what kind of people they're trying to attract at there 13:47:11 But, I think there's a mitigating factor, which is that freenode is basically Fedora's nervous system 13:47:33 or our spinal cord at least :) 13:47:45 So I'm happy to support them for that. 13:47:50 Would make it easier to know more about what kinds of material to bring / present 13:48:14 Yeah, but I think it's also a nice gesture to participate from a community POV, at least with Freenode as the organizers 13:48:27 I think as a new conference, no one really knows what the vibe is going to be like 13:48:38 We've been told we can basically do whatever we like 13:48:43 mattdm: +1 13:48:53 exactly, but in talking to christel they are seeing great response and are thinking about where it could for next year if this year goes well 13:49:00 I'm just curious about what they're trying to do with this conference other than get people in the same room and talk 13:49:04 mattdm: let's go and talk about telegram 13:49:20 Can I find rooms organized by IRC channel? 😁 13:49:37 mattdm: Ack, interesting then 13:49:52 Is there anything else you wanted to mention other than you're speaking? 13:50:02 Did we want to mobilize Ambassadors for this too? 13:50:22 I'd love to use it as a way to experiment with different kind of things Fedora can do at events. Possibly we could have a FAD related to improving our IRC onboarding, Hubs/IRC integration, etc. 13:50:42 back, sorry :( 13:50:43 jwf|matrix: I'd love help coming up with good ideas. And mobilizing ambassadors around those ideas. 13:50:50 robyduck: welcome back :) 13:51:15 as per previous topic, if we have a great idea, we can find budgetr 13:51:17 budget 13:51:35 but also it's the same time as previously-mentioned LISA 13:51:43 * jwf|matrix nods 13:52:13 * jkurik brb 13:52:32 Is there already a thread started on this on the list? Might be curious to see if anyone on list also has ideas for experiments. I can probably think of some ideas too, but it probably wouldn't be by today. 13:53:08 There is not. I'll start one. Probably Ambassador's list? 13:53:19 if we could EMEA ambassadors that would solve the lisa conflict 13:53:20 #action mattdm to start thread about what we want to do with this. 13:53:48 bexelbie: yeah 13:53:56 okay then I think that's about all there 13:54:00 #topic Anything Else? 13:54:10 mattdm: yeah, actually, general Ambassadors list seems good 13:54:44 Free cookies 🍪🍪🍪 13:54:50 And maybe a cup or two more of ☕ 13:54:55 * jwf|matrix doesn't have anything 13:55:00 * bexelbie is good 13:55:18 does anyone want to discuss the nvidia repo and subsequent LWN.net article? 13:55:25 * jkurik back 13:55:29 nothing else here 13:55:46 bexelbie: Or maybe some 🍰 for the FCAIC 13:55:54 jwb: Link? 13:55:58 #topic Nvidia repo, LWN, etc. 13:56:11 jwb in three minutes :) 13:56:31 jwf|matrix: subscriber only at the moment: https://lwn.net/Articles/734789/ 13:56:39 #link https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/734789/2cf54e3955f3929f/ 13:56:47 ah, that's a better link 13:56:49 ^ non-subscriber access 13:57:23 #info Third party software proposal *does not yet have final approval* 13:57:23 so my concern here is that there seems to be a disconnect between what some on the Workstation WG consider blocker around 3rd party repos and what the rest of the project is doing 13:57:28 #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/121 13:57:38 i think this specific issue is sorted out, but that would be good to clarify 13:57:57 jwb: Yes. There is also a disconnect between what I was told would be the plan and what was being asked for here 13:58:23 That is: introduce a mechanism in workstation for holding back kernel updates (with override for severe security issues) 13:58:38 Vs: have all of fedora hold up even pushing kernel updates 14:00:07 i think the fallback plan is still being implemented, but perhaps not as originally described 14:00:24 anyway, i bring it up mostly for general Council awareness. not something we need to solve in this meeting 14:00:47 Yeah we are at time for this meeting 14:00:55 but I do think it's important to get a handle on 14:01:06 I can talk to christian about it at our next face-to-face 14:01:15 are there other specific actions we should take? 14:01:16 The context helps. 14:01:18 before we wrap up... 14:01:19 may I have some feedback in https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/135 please ? 14:02:09 #topic Elections Interview 14:02:10 jkurik: I can get it in another hour after my commute 14:02:21 #action everyone respond to ticket https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/135 14:02:23 Ah, unless we discuss now :) 14:02:36 nope ending meeting. just sneaking it in :) 14:02:37 thanks everyone :) 14:02:46 jkurik: my only concern is why we ask for the questionnaire before the nomination 14:03:00 * jwf|matrix nods 14:03:01 ending now so we can get to jkurik's next meeting so i can then have breakfast before my *next* meeting :) 14:03:06 #endmeeting