15:03:23 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig
15:03:23 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 17 15:03:23 2017 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03:23 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:03:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:03:27 <rdieter> #meetingname kde-sig
15:03:27 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
15:03:31 <rdieter> #topic roll call
15:03:41 <rdieter> hi all, friendly kde-sig meeting, who's present today?
15:04:16 * lupinix waves
15:04:55 <tosky> o/
15:05:14 <tosky> but partially double booked (technically triple-booked right now)
15:05:35 * pino|work is here
15:05:50 <rdieter> #info rdieter lupinix tosky pino|work present
15:06:06 <rdieter> though we have only 1/3*tosky
15:06:39 <pino|work> we have what?
15:06:48 <tosky> triple-booked
15:06:52 <tosky> aaanyway
15:06:58 <rdieter> one-third of a tosky
15:07:06 <pino|work> it depends which part we got
15:07:14 <rdieter> #chair lupinix tosky pino|work
15:07:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: lupinix pino|work rdieter tosky
15:07:24 <rdieter> pino|work: good point
15:08:32 <rdieter> #topic agenda
15:08:37 <rdieter> ok, what to discuss today?
15:08:57 <rdieter> so far, I have topics: qt-5.9.2 status, and kde spin apps (per recent ml thread)
15:10:32 * lupinix has no special topics
15:10:37 * tosky has no other points
15:10:54 * pino|work neither
15:10:54 <rdieter> k, let's go
15:11:00 <rdieter> #topic qt-5.9.2 status
15:11:24 <rdieter> 5.9.2 builds and deps have been sitting in -testing for a bit now, mostly good feedback so far
15:11:44 <rdieter> in the meantime, I've been tightening intermodule dependencies in rawhide, after finding more private api usage
15:11:45 <lupinix> i have no issues on f26 and f27
15:12:09 <rdieter> f27 : https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2017-5ebb1d005c
15:12:16 <tosky> iirc there is at least an annoying bug for Qt applications under Wayland fixed in 5.9.2 (menu popping up in random places)
15:12:17 <rdieter> f26 : https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2017-c133443edc
15:12:30 <pino|work> maybe tightening the dependencies should be done before pushing, so people don't get symbols lookup issues
15:14:09 <rdieter> I don't think it's worth waiting for *now*, the only scenario for problems is folks who do selective updates, ie: update one qt5- pkg, without the others
15:14:25 <rdieter> but it definitely will be better for the next batch
15:14:35 <lupinix> yes
15:15:08 <rdieter> I'm open to consider it, if others feel strongly, but it'll push back qt-5.9.2 coming to stable updates for another week
15:15:46 <lupinix> i think the update is fine so far
15:16:21 * lupinix just found an issue with lxqt-config on f26 but the neccessary rebuild is included in the updates
15:17:27 <rdieter> the magic incantation: dnf repoquery --repoid=rawhide --whatrequires "libQt5*(Qt_5_PRIVATE_API)(64bit)"
15:17:52 <rdieter> I'm (still) disappointed upstream chose not to implement versioning for minor releases here, so we could rely on that 100%
15:18:56 <rdieter> anything else on Qt 5.9.2 ?
15:19:33 <lupinix> nothing else here
15:20:01 <rdieter> k, moving on
15:20:10 <rdieter> #topic kde spin applications
15:20:38 <rdieter> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/kde@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/PFMYMFABAPI5Z6PLBEIMXMBXZUERJTSL/
15:20:41 <rdieter> per ml thread ^^
15:21:13 <rdieter> I'm generally in agreement with the recommendations laid out
15:21:46 <tosky> all of them, or more for the higher one in priority?
15:21:56 <lupinix> same here, i'd remove all applications under "most likely" and "maybe"
15:22:02 <rdieter> the first group for sure, "maybe remove" as well
15:22:03 <lupinix> and maybe k3b in addition
15:22:14 <rdieter> actually, all of them :)
15:22:39 <rdieter> would be good steps to achieve the objective
15:23:01 <tosky> some of them requires change to packaging (qt dbus, amarok build dep)
15:23:06 <lupinix> and konqueror can go imho
15:23:20 <tosky> others are just "remove from the image"
15:23:24 <rdieter> dbusviewer is already packaged separately
15:23:33 <rdieter> (I"m pretty sure)
15:23:45 <rdieter> the amarok on can be made soft, yes
15:23:50 <rdieter> amarok one...
15:24:14 <tosky> even killed, let me dig a forum thread
15:24:16 <rdieter> (or crazy thought, drop amarok altogether)
15:24:31 <tosky> https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=116&t=127898
15:24:49 <lupinix> rdieter: and what add instead of amarok?
15:24:52 <tosky> just as a note, Workstation ships Rythmbox
15:25:17 <lupinix> audio player is a must have imho
15:25:23 <rdieter> lupinix: good question, offhand no replacement, but meh
15:25:42 <pino|work> lupinix: iirc there's dragon already
15:25:58 <pino|work> but dragon and an amarok-like app are completely different beasts
15:26:33 <lupinix> yes, thats why i would like to have a proper replacement if we remove amarok
15:26:39 <rdieter> may have to double-check remaining qt4/kde4 apps on spin, amarok is probably one of the last ones
15:26:55 * than is present
15:27:00 <rdieter> #info than present
15:27:02 <rdieter> hi
15:27:03 <rdieter> #chair than
15:27:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: lupinix pino|work rdieter than tosky
15:27:13 <than> hi all
15:27:22 <rdieter> anyone, if folks have input, please comment onlist
15:27:30 <rdieter> tosky: and thanks for looking into it
15:27:46 <pino|work> iirc the content of the live is installed by default, right?
15:27:47 <tosky> juk will be Qt5 in Applications 17.12, for the record; elisa is maturing too
15:28:43 <rdieter> pino|work: yes
15:28:48 <pino|work> ok
15:29:13 <lupinix> elisa would be interesting
15:29:33 <pino|work> elisa is still a one-man show
15:29:50 <tosky> right, it's in playground in fact
15:30:04 <tosky> the good thing is that he is fixing frameworks on the way
15:30:19 <pino|work> playground or extragear does not matter
15:30:24 <tosky> but that's out of scope here; not ready for 27, probably not for 28
15:30:48 <tosky> and for that time there could be other alternatives
15:30:50 <pino|work> what i meant is that is basically still developed by a single person, so yes, actively worked on, but basically with nobody else working on it
15:31:02 <rdieter> <nod>, the timeframe for acting on this is f28 territory
15:31:07 <pino|work> this is not a judgement on its quality
15:31:14 <tosky> sure
15:31:32 <tosky> so can we still kill some of the programs on the live for f27?
15:31:37 <lupinix> well, we could skip the audio player point for now and re-evaluate later
15:31:44 <rdieter> I'd hoped tomahawk to be a viable alternative too, but that seems to have slowed down
15:31:45 <pino|work> iirc there was another player in development, can't remember the name though
15:31:50 <tosky> babe?
15:32:07 <pino|work> ah yes, babe
15:33:12 <pino|work> anyway, i agree with the "most likely" points, and all the non-games "maybe" points
15:33:31 <pino|work> + remove kruler too
15:33:57 <tosky> so keep all games? Or just keep one or two instead of 3?
15:34:06 <pino|work> and possibly krdc too (maybe not if the workstation ships one)
15:34:25 <tosky> no, Workstation does not ship a remote client
15:34:25 <rdieter> tosky: I'd say all (3) or nothing
15:34:51 <rdieter> if we're gonna slim down, may as well go all the way :-P
15:35:09 <tosky> uhm uhm
15:35:17 <pino|work> well, imho these 3 games are the last of our problems
15:35:21 <rdieter> hard to give up my kmines tho
15:35:29 <rdieter> pino|work: true
15:35:56 <lupinix> having some kind of small games is fine for me
15:36:12 <tosky> not in term of space, I agree; I was thinking about the QA that needs to open each program
15:36:13 <rdieter> (games are fine, I was being a little snarky)
15:36:20 <tosky> that said, games are mostly stable
15:36:23 <tosky> especially those 3
15:36:34 <lupinix> yes
15:36:37 <lupinix> i'd keep them
15:37:32 <pino|work> i'd rather drop telepathy-kde than these games
15:37:35 <rdieter> maybe one more week of discussion, and decide on first pass of removals next week?
15:37:38 <lupinix> pino|work: +1
15:38:02 <rdieter> pino|work: dropping telepathy is pretty much a given at the point (I think)
15:38:26 <tosky> telepathy-kde is in the "drop for sure"
15:39:05 <tosky> with its removal, two items in the "most likely can be removed" list will be removed
15:40:00 <rdieter> tosky: you ok with implementing the changes (submitting pull requests for comps and/or spin-kickstarts)?
15:40:27 <rdieter> (though we don't need to make that decision now, just curious)
15:40:34 <tosky> rdieter: for the changes to comps yes, I need to read a bit of documentation first; can I test it locally?
15:41:09 <tosky> comps and spin-kickstart of course
15:41:25 <rdieter> tosky: it's just a xml file listing groups of packages
15:41:33 <rdieter> (comps)
15:42:05 <rdieter> spin-kickstarts is *most* uses comps groups (this is where telepathy would be removed, for example)
15:42:14 <rdieter> *mostly* uses, I mean
15:42:46 <tosky> ack, I will check that
15:42:50 <rdieter> not exactly easily testable locally, short of actually generating your own full live image locally (non-trivial)
15:42:58 <tosky> ah, that was the question
15:43:03 <Southern_Gentlem> ???
15:43:14 <rdieter> Southern_Gentlem: comment?
15:43:17 * lupinix can create test builds of live
15:43:28 <Southern_Gentlem> you need an updated live for 27?
15:43:30 <rdieter> lupinix: ok, thanks
15:43:43 <rdieter> Southern_Gentlem: no, we're considering spin changes for future (probably f28)
15:44:11 <Southern_Gentlem> get me a ks and we can test with 27
15:44:14 <rdieter> in particular, slimming it down a bit
15:44:30 <Southern_Gentlem> +1
15:44:37 <rdieter> k, thanks for the offer, will keep that in mind
15:44:55 <tosky> Southern_Gentlem: if you have instructions on how to generate it locally, it would be good too
15:45:23 <lupinix> tosky: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Livemedia-creator-_How_to_create_and_use_a_Live_CD
15:45:51 <tosky> thanks
15:45:56 * lupinix does his local test builds of lxqt spin and astronomy lab this way
15:45:58 <rdieter> it's not *hard*, but sometimes is tricky , and takes a bit of time, downloading
15:46:24 <Southern_Gentlem> (or have a uni mirror)
15:46:36 <rdieter> true
15:46:52 <tosky> my home connection is fast
15:46:53 <lupinix> uni here, 1gbit/s connection, most time goes into compression
15:47:01 <lupinix> of live image
15:47:08 <tosky> not university-level, but fast enough
15:47:41 <bowlofeggs> konquest is the best KDE game imo ☺
15:47:53 <rdieter> the changes to both comps and spin-kickstarts should be easy enough to eye-ball it for errors/typos
15:48:23 <Southern_Gentlem> rdieter,  and most of the ks are in pagure now
15:48:28 <rdieter> bowlofeggs: +1
15:48:47 <bowlofeggs> i've spent hours playing konquest, honing in a strat ☺
15:49:00 <rdieter> I recall writing a text/curses variant of konquest in college
15:49:12 <bowlofeggs> there's an android port/variant of it too
15:49:42 <lupinix> btw i also have things to add @spin :P
15:50:11 <bowlofeggs> the android version is called PlanetCon
15:50:21 <bowlofeggs> it's slightly different
15:50:26 <bowlofeggs> but similar idea
15:50:30 <lupinix> basically wayland, i guess it is stable enough now with plasma, not as default but as preview
15:50:54 <rdieter> lupinix: <nod>, I think upstream is tenatively targetting plasma-5.12
15:51:17 <tosky> that's what Martin is trying to push, but let's see
15:51:42 <rdieter> that may be time that we could actually include it in the spin at least, even if not used by default
15:52:18 <rdieter> (currently it is not included)
15:52:26 <Southern_Gentlem> tosky, https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/MUQd60nsM0PWJRUDRrHMRg to give you an idea of the commandline
15:52:34 <tosky> thanks
15:53:07 <rdieter> move on?
15:53:12 <rdieter> (almost out of time anyway)
15:53:15 <lupinix> yes
15:53:20 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
15:54:19 <rdieter> last thoughts, wanted to mention fesco ruled on qtwebengine, saga @ https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1781
15:54:49 <rdieter> kde-sig commit rights restored, agreed to compromise on new pull-request workflow
15:55:16 <lupinix> hopefully it works…
15:55:31 <rdieter> Kevin can ack, or +2 kde-sig members (48hr minimum) to commit
15:55:47 <rdieter> or +4 kde-sig members required to override veto/nack
15:57:19 <rdieter> in a similar vein, I'd like to work harder to keep #fedora-kde a more positive and collaborative space
15:57:32 <rdieter> in particular, it needs to be a rant-free zone
15:57:42 <tosky> thanks
15:57:42 <lupinix> yes
15:58:11 <rdieter> please let me know if help is needed to enforce that
15:58:43 <lupinix> who has mod rights @irc channel?
15:58:59 <rdieter> of active kde-sig members, good question, at least me
15:58:59 <pino|work> rdieter: thanks, that's what i'm asking for more than 2 years...
15:59:30 <rdieter> pino|work: been trying, but admittedly not hard enough
16:00:14 <lupinix> for some special person i guess kick and later ban is the only option…
16:00:19 <rdieter> had been long hoping certain individuals could get steered in the right direction without force
16:00:49 <rdieter> but now simply have to draw a line in the sand making it clear what is ok and what is not
16:00:49 * lupinix just set that person to ignore in his client as he has been attacked personally
16:01:16 <lupinix> btw: are we blocking some other meeting here now?
16:01:26 <rdieter> lupinix: and that's sad, should never have to do that
16:01:33 <rdieter> possibly, we are out of time
16:01:39 <rdieter> so, thanks everyone!
16:01:42 <rdieter> #endmeeting