13:00:11 <mattdm> #startmeeting Council (2017-10-18)
13:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 18 13:00:11 2017 UTC.  The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2017-10-18)'
13:00:12 <mattdm> #meetingname council
13:00:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
13:00:14 <mattdm> #chair mattdm jkurik jwb langdon robyduck bexelbie jwf stefw
13:00:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie jkurik jwb jwf langdon mattdm robyduck stefw
13:00:16 <mattdm> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
13:00:30 <bexelbie> give me just a few moments please
13:00:31 <jwb> hello
13:00:33 <bexelbie> I have your agenda :)
13:00:33 <mattdm> Good morning and afternoon, everyone
13:00:35 <bexelbie> .hello bex
13:00:35 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
13:00:37 <mattdm> bexelbie++
13:00:39 <zodbot> mattdm: Karma for bex changed to 12 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:01:34 <bexelbie> ok, per mattdm's request I analyzed the tickets and have triaged for us for this meeting
13:01:49 <mattdm> thank you bexelbie!
13:01:53 <mattdm> #topic Agenda
13:02:00 <jkurik> .hello2
13:02:01 <zodbot> jkurik: jkurik 'Jan Kurik' <jkurik@redhat.com>
13:03:35 <mattdm> langdon is in brno but maybe still traveling or jetlagged or i dunno
13:03:48 <bexelbie> ready?
13:04:03 <bexelbie> robyduck1, you around?
13:04:22 <bexelbie> jwf, you around?
13:04:25 <bexelbie> stefw, you around?
13:04:30 <bexelbie> jkurik, you around?
13:04:34 <stefw> .hello stefw
13:04:35 <bexelbie> n/m I see you jkurik
13:04:35 <zodbot> stefw: stefw 'Stef Walter' <stefw@redhat.com>
13:04:50 <jkurik> bexelbie: I am happy you see me :-)
13:04:58 <mattdm> let's go ahead with the agenda, and hopefully the missing folks will be able to make it
13:05:21 <bexelbie> #topic TM Questions
13:05:23 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/140
13:05:23 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/107
13:05:24 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/99
13:05:24 <bexelbie> mattdm - status?
13:05:34 <bexelbie> they all seem to be being referred to someone by you :)
13:06:01 * mattdm looks quick
13:06:02 <langdon> hey.. is this the council meeting? i don't think i got pinged and don't see the start in my scrollback.. /me confused
13:06:29 <bexelbie> langdon, it is the council meeting
13:06:32 <mattdm> langdon: did the #chair message not ping you?
13:06:36 <mattdm> whee, jetlag!
13:06:41 <langdon> yeah.. weird
13:07:20 <mattdm> Okay, here's the trademark situation:
13:07:23 <bexelbie> langdon, as we say in Brno around 3pm, morning
13:07:53 <mattdm> The one where they used a modified version of our trademark in a different field of endevour is not worth resources trying to do anything about
13:07:54 <langdon> bexelbie: ha.. yeah.. i was planning for it.. just surprised i didn't see the ping
13:08:11 <mattdm> The one where they don't have a trademark license needs further followup from legal and I'll ping them
13:08:35 <mattdm> The VPS one is still ongoing, with good progress from vultr and good-faith efforts from linode but some technical issues we are still working on
13:08:46 <bexelbie> proposed action mattdm to update tickets with latest status
13:09:00 <mattdm> #action mattdm to update these tickets
13:09:28 <bexelbie> #topic FAD Templates
13:09:30 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/138
13:09:44 <bexelbie> proposal - reassign to bex to work with jwf low priority
13:10:11 <mattdm> +1
13:10:34 <jkurik> ack
13:11:06 <bexelbie> stefw, langdon jwb ?
13:11:27 <jwb> yes, +1
13:11:29 <bexelbie> #action reassign to bex to work with jwf low priority
13:11:40 <bexelbie> done
13:11:43 <bexelbie> #topic Elections Interviews
13:11:44 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/135
13:11:44 <bexelbie> looks like we have lazy consensus - jkurik do you need anything to implement this?
13:12:31 <jkurik> bexelbie: I have already started and put it into schedule https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-27/f-27-elections.html
13:12:43 <jkurik> I do not need anything for now
13:12:49 <bexelbie> sounds like we should close as approved then
13:12:50 <jkurik> we are starting the next week
13:13:05 <jkurik> +1 to close it
13:13:08 <bexelbie> closing ...
13:13:19 <bexelbie> and closed
13:13:19 <jkurik> bexelbie: thanks
13:13:21 <bexelbie> #topic Fake AMIs
13:13:22 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/139
13:13:22 <bexelbie> mattdm - next step? Fesco? Release Eng?
13:14:30 <jwb> probably rel-eng
13:14:36 <mattdm> We need to fix the technical side of this
13:14:54 <mattdm> The root problem is that the fedimg stuff is not uploading to new regions when they come online
13:15:00 <mattdm> so someone made their own
13:15:05 <bexelbie> proposed action mattdm and jwb to file a ticket with the appropriate technical group and update/close this ticket?
13:15:23 <jwb> fine
13:15:27 <mattdm> bexelbie: I did file a ticket, but I'll find and link it
13:15:33 <bexelbie> ok
13:15:34 <bexelbie> given that
13:15:43 <bexelbie> #action mattdm to link to appropriate technical side ticket and close this ticket
13:15:51 <bexelbie> #topic 3rd Party software
13:15:51 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/121
13:15:51 <bexelbie> can we vote on the summarized proposal? and see if any final language changes are needed - who can own final review versus this summary?
13:16:29 <bexelbie> I'd prefer to do in-ticket voting as robyduck isn't here and I know he wants to weigh in on this
13:17:38 <mattdm> yeah, afaik robyduck1 was -1 to this but had a long talk with the desktop team and they arrived at something he is okay with
13:18:07 <mattdm> but that needs to be from him on record 'cause this isn't something to wave through casually
13:18:29 <bexelbie> proposed action All council members to review ticket and vote in ticket based on summary in final comment.  Robyduck to update if there is more changes that were agreed to - that resets voting.  mattdm and bex to review language versus summary.
13:18:30 <bexelbie> ?
13:19:09 <jkurik> ack to the proposed action
13:19:40 <jwb> er...
13:19:54 <jwb> so should we wait for robyduck1 to vote or comment before we do then?
13:20:01 <mattdm> Yes, let's wait for robyduck1
13:20:07 <jwb> ok
13:20:17 <mattdm> and I think maybe christian or jiri could update the ticket with any changes to the proposal
13:20:51 <jwb> after the recent discussion about the nvidia repo on the list, i'm also wondering if we need to add language that says third party repos being broken explicitly cannot block updates or releases in fedora proper
13:20:55 <mattdm> I mean, it's very possible that some of the rest of us have questions about the proposed compromise
13:20:56 <bexelbie> proposed action Robyduck, Christian, or Jiri to update ticket if there were more changes. Then all council members to vote in ticket and mattdm and bex to review language versus summary.
13:21:04 <mattdm> and, yeah, what jwb said
13:21:36 <bexelbie> ok, so maybe simpler - jwb can you add that note to the ticket along with a request for updates from Robyduck, Christian and Jiri?
13:21:38 <mattdm> This is meant to be an experiment to increase fedora's reach -- not a hammer to force other people in the project to change
13:21:49 <mattdm> *nod*
13:22:02 <jwb> sure
13:22:15 <bexelbie> #action jwb to add nvidia note to the ticket along with a request for updates from Robyduck, Christian and Jiri?
13:22:40 <bexelbie> #topic Diversity Role
13:22:40 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/137
13:22:40 <bexelbie> mattdm are we going to do any more bikeshedding or will you bring a final proposal?
13:23:16 <mattdm> I will bring a final proposal. It's fallen behind several other things on my task-juggling list but hasn't left my mind
13:23:27 <bexelbie> #action mattdm to bring a final proposal
13:23:39 <bexelbie> #topic mission/foundation/etc. pages
13:23:40 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/117
13:23:40 <bexelbie> mattdm what is the next step in getting this moved and published?
13:24:57 <mattdm> bexelbie: technical stuff with docs site?
13:25:04 <mattdm> I think it's 95% good in the repo
13:25:22 <mattdm> you and i need to sit down and hash out where it will live on docs, basically
13:25:24 <bexelbie> proposed action mattdm and bex to get this published - mattdm to put a time on bex's calendar :)
13:25:37 * mattdm looks at november....
13:26:32 <bexelbie> sound good?
13:26:34 <bexelbie> re: action?
13:27:14 <bexelbie> #action mattdm and bex to get this published - mattdm to put a time on bex's calendar :)
13:27:16 <bexelbie> next?
13:28:22 <mattdm> bexelbie: invited you to the one time slot that works before november :)
13:28:34 <mattdm> and, yeah, next.
13:28:36 <bexelbie> I'll go decline - I mean read it after this meeting :)
13:28:38 <bexelbie> #topic Mindshare
13:28:38 <bexelbie> As there is no robyduck today, I just want these logged for the record and have a little bit of input from folks
13:28:53 * mattdm afk for 60 seconds
13:28:55 <bexelbie> #info Restructure for Mindshare
13:28:55 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/142
13:28:55 <bexelbie> proposed action Council members need to weigh in on this
13:30:39 <mattdm> #action all Council members need to weigh in on this
13:30:44 <mattdm> ftfy :)
13:30:55 <bexelbie> ftfy?
13:31:04 <mattdm> "fixed that for you" :)
13:31:09 <bexelbie> ahh
13:31:10 <bexelbie> #info Ambassador Questions and proposals
13:31:10 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/126
13:31:10 <bexelbie> no feedback from ambassadors on mattdm's proposal - is that lazy consensus?  I believe robyduck should implement in terms of Mindshare and restructure
13:31:11 <bexelbie> proposed action close with request that robyduck include these thoughts in #142 and restructure work
13:31:43 <mattdm> Yeah, I'm _really_ disappointed to hear from _no_ ambassadors on my proposal
13:31:54 <mattdm> That signifies that the whole group is really, really, not engaged
13:31:54 <langdon> mattdm: reddit nerd
13:32:11 <bexelbie> #action close with request that robyduck include these thoughts in #142 and restructure work
13:32:16 <bexelbie> mattdm can you do the close?
13:32:43 <bexelbie> and yes, I agree that we have some engagement challenges in the ambassadors - I'll work with Robyduck to see what I can do as FCAIC to help him and them re-engage
13:32:51 <mattdm> I'd like to give a week for other comments from the council before closing.
13:32:59 <mattdm> but let's set a deadline
13:33:01 <bexelbie> #undo
13:33:01 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by bexelbie at 13:32:11 : close with request that robyduck include these thoughts in #142 and restructure work
13:33:26 <bexelbie> #action council to review/comment on #126 by Wednesday October 25
13:33:37 <mattdm> It's one of those things where it's a long, thought-out proposal and it's easy to say "I'll read that when I have time"
13:33:47 <bexelbie> true
13:34:23 <bexelbie> #info private ticket
13:34:23 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/143
13:34:24 <bexelbie> proposed action robyduck to complete requirements for #143 to be made public and voted on for action in this FY if possible - this is partially blocked by #142
13:34:42 <mattdm> yeah.
13:34:55 <langdon> so.. im a bit behind.. mattdm, maybe break up the proposal in to more digestable parts?
13:34:59 <mattdm> so let's get council comments on *both* 126 and 142 by next week please.
13:35:27 <mattdm> langdon: read the thing linked in 142 and comment on it in ticket
13:35:52 <langdon> mattdm: sorry.. i meant on #126
13:37:07 <mattdm> So, I guess on 126, the question is: should we, from the council level, direct FAmSCo to make this a rule?
13:37:34 <mattdm> "this" being the bolded proposal from https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/ambassadors-fedora-strategy/
13:37:47 <mattdm> which is "I propose that from now forward, all events and spending by Ambassadors should be directly related to  the target audience of a Fedora Edition or to a current Objective."
13:38:36 <langdon> mattdm: wait.. im confused.. i thought that was already the status
13:39:09 <mattdm> Current status is FAmSCo approves spending if it seems like a good idea at the time, AFAIK
13:39:23 <bexelbie> actually the regions are doing the approval not FAmSCo
13:39:37 <bexelbie> and the regions do not apply this test
13:39:42 <mattdm> bexelbie: isn't FAmSCo approving large expenses still?
13:40:06 <bexelbie> I am not aware of anything having been deemed large enough to require FAmSCo in a while
13:40:11 <bexelbie> and the amount is not uniform around the world
13:40:24 <bexelbie> last I looked it seemed to be set to try to eliminate the need to send things up as much as possible
13:40:35 * bexelbie will have to figure out where in the wiki ambassadors documented this
13:40:39 <mattdm> Which is good, as long as everyone stays on the same page
13:40:44 <mattdm> which is how this connects back to 142 :)
13:41:17 <bexelbie> one of my long term goals is to get all of the finance rules documented on the budget site so that we know where they are and what they are
13:42:02 <mattdm> that is a good goal
13:42:40 <mattdm> So, assuming we want to pull the High Level Fiat lever on this, I propose we put this rule and link to the blog post on that site
13:42:40 <bexelbie> I a bit blocked on some internal RH changes that we will need to document ... so ... #delay :)
13:42:48 <mattdm> or transfer the blog post to the site entirely
13:43:02 * mattdm breaks out pandoc -t asciidoc
13:43:19 <bexelbie> slow your roll - sounds like we need to give the council a week :)
13:43:48 <mattdm> Yes, that's one thing I'd like the council to think about for a week :)
13:44:40 <bexelbie> does that answer your question langdon ?
13:44:55 <langdon> sorry.. got pulled in to another meeting and distrctaed
13:44:59 * langdon read scrollback
13:45:40 <langdon> bexelbie: yes.. i think so
13:45:44 <bexelbie> cool
13:45:47 <bexelbie> last topic?
13:46:00 <bexelbie> before open floor (if time remains)
13:46:04 * mattdm posts in ticket
13:46:09 <mattdm> last topic!
13:46:19 <bexelbie> #topic Open CoC Issues
13:46:19 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/111
13:46:19 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/109
13:46:19 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/105
13:46:19 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/71
13:46:20 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/40
13:46:21 <bexelbie> proposed action the above tickets are all part of the CoC work that Marina and bex are doing and are blocked by that
13:46:24 <bexelbie> these are all procedural
13:46:49 <mattdm> *nod*
13:46:55 <bexelbie> specific action proposal action bexelbie to open a ticket to track Marina and bex CoC work and block the above tickets with it
13:47:50 <mattdm> +1
13:48:11 <bexelbie> #action bexelbie to open a ticket to track Marina and bex CoC work and block the above tickets with it
13:48:30 <bexelbie> #info private CoC ticket
13:48:30 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/144
13:48:30 <bexelbie> proposed action mattdm to put in specific recommendation to ensure we know what we are voting on #144
13:49:05 * mattdm reads bexelbie's last comment there; I will do that.
13:49:33 <bexelbie> #action mattdm to put in specific recommendation to ensure we know what we are voting on #144
13:49:41 <bexelbie> #info specific issues
13:49:41 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/122
13:49:42 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/106
13:49:42 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/95
13:49:43 <bexelbie> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/91
13:49:45 <bexelbie> These are all blocked up waiting on the CoC process to gel per our last f2f meeting, iirc
13:49:58 <jwb> i have to drop.  sorry.
13:50:24 <bexelbie> proposed action block them on the CoC ticket too?
13:50:28 <mattdm> jwb: I think we're mostly done
13:50:32 <mattdm> bexelbie: yep!
13:50:40 <bexelbie> then that is all I have
13:51:01 <mattdm> good meeting. thanks bexelbie!
13:51:11 <bexelbie> #action block them on the CoC ticket too
13:51:27 <bexelbie> #topic closing thoughts an piano interlude
13:51:58 <bexelbie> Thank you all
13:51:59 <jkurik> interlude: A few weeks ago I become part-time in RedHat due to some personal/family reasons. I might not be available after 3pm (CEST) / 9am (US/East).
13:52:36 <mattdm> jkurik: thanks for letting us know. I hope all goes well with those issues.
13:52:37 <bexelbie> jkurik, let me know how I can help, if at all, given that we are relatively close to each other geographically
13:52:56 <jkurik> bexelbie: sure, thanks for the offer
13:53:33 <bexelbie> closing in 5
13:53:49 <mattdm> 5 what?
13:53:51 <bexelbie> 3
13:53:58 <bexelbie> arbitrary counting units
13:53:59 <mattdm> ooh no 4? tricky!
13:54:04 <bexelbie> e
13:54:12 <bexelbie> .67
13:54:18 <bexelbie> #endmeeting