15:31:37 <Rhea> #startmeeting Fedora DotNet (2017-11-30)
15:31:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Nov 30 15:31:37 2017 UTC.  The chair is Rhea. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:31:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:31:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_dotnet_(2017-11-30)'
15:31:43 <Rhea> #meetingname dotnet
15:31:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'dotnet'
15:31:45 <Rhea> #nick dotnet
15:32:08 <Rhea> #topic Agenda
15:32:15 <Rhea> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:DotNet_latest
15:32:16 <Rhea> #info (1) Roll Call
15:32:26 <aslice> .hello aslice
15:32:27 <Rhea> #info (2) Announcements
15:32:27 <zodbot> aslice: aslice 'Andrew Slice' <andrew.slice@redhat.com>
15:32:41 <Rhea> #info (3) fedoraloves.net
15:32:48 <Rhea> #info (4) Packaging progress / Open Floor discussion
15:32:53 <Rhea> #topic Roll Call
15:32:59 <Rhea> #info Name; Timezone; Sub-projects/Interest Areas
15:33:01 <Rhea> #action dotnet New members, make sure you introduce yourself on the DotNet mailing list [ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/DotNet ]
15:33:03 <Rhea> If this is your first time at a DotNet meeting, feel free to introduce yourself to everyone and say hello! If anyone has any questions before we get started with the rest of the agenda, now is also a good time to ask.
15:33:10 <Rhea> .hello rhea
15:33:11 <zodbot> Rhea: rhea 'Radka Janek' <radka.janek@redhat.com>
15:34:04 <pcreech> .hello pcreech17
15:34:07 <bt0__> .hello bt0dotninja
15:34:07 <zodbot> pcreech: pcreech17 'Patrick Creech' <pcreech@redhat.com>
15:34:11 <zodbot> bt0__: bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <hotgalan@gmail.com>
15:34:18 <Rhea> #chair aslice pcreech bt0
15:34:18 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rhea aslice bt0 pcreech
15:34:43 <Rhea> #chair axel
15:34:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rhea aslice axel bt0 pcreech
15:35:04 <axels> .hello axels
15:35:07 <zodbot> axels: axels 'None' <axel@redhat.com>
15:35:13 <axels> lol 'None'
15:35:23 <Rhea> #chair axels
15:35:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rhea aslice axel axels bt0 pcreech
15:35:25 <Rhea> whatever
15:35:29 <Rhea> youre twice
15:35:33 <axels> XD
15:35:36 <Rhea> :]
15:35:41 <aslice> 2 x NONE is still NONE
15:35:43 <Rhea> #chair omajid
15:35:43 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rhea aslice axel axels bt0 omajid pcreech
15:35:50 <axels> Shh
15:35:54 <bt0__> :)
15:35:55 <axels> I'm extra none today :D
15:36:53 <Rhea> #chair tmds
15:36:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rhea aslice axel axels bt0 omajid pcreech tmds
15:38:05 <Rhea> #topic Announcements
15:39:00 <Rhea> msdn blog ain't'loadin
15:39:01 <Rhea> gg
15:39:30 <Rhea> #info === Welcome to C# 7.1 ===
15:39:34 <Rhea> #link https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/10/31/welcome-to-c-7-1/
15:39:50 <Rhea> #info === Welcome to C# 7.2 and Span ===
15:39:53 <Rhea> #link https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/11/15/welcome-to-c-7-2-and-span/
15:40:14 <Rhea> #info === Rider 2017.3 Early Access Program is open ===
15:40:17 <Rhea> #link https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2017/11/24/rider-2017-3-early-access-program-open/
15:40:30 <Rhea> #info === Different code styles for different code blocks in ReSharper and Rider ===
15:40:33 <Rhea> #link https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2017/11/27/different-code-styles-different-code-blocks-resharper-rider/
15:40:36 * tmds loves Span
15:40:42 <Rhea> #info === Aligning code in columns with ReSharper and Rider ===
15:40:47 <Rhea> #link https://blog.jetbrains.com/dotnet/2017/11/28/aligning-code-columns-resharper-rider/
15:41:01 * Rhea is looking forward to tmds's presentation to find out about it
15:41:03 <Rhea> :D
15:41:50 <Rhea> #topic fedoraloves.net
15:42:12 <Rhea> #info handout design ticket submitted at
15:42:39 <Rhea> #link https://pagure.io/design/issue/555
15:43:15 <Rhea> Anyone anything to talk about for this topic before I throw all kinds of website questions at you?
15:44:18 <bt0__> no...
15:44:19 <Rhea> Head over to http://fedoraloves.net ... I had some discussions about the current state of the IDEs and omnisharp issues and came to some ideas...
15:44:37 <Rhea> On the .netcore page - should we include mention of microsoft packages?
15:45:23 <tmds> what microsoft packages? :P
15:45:33 <Rhea> Start with .NET Core Microsoft's proprietary packages as the first #title, containing text like "these packages contain some proprietary bits of .net framework yada yada..."
15:45:41 <Rhea> Then go with our copr....
15:46:14 <Rhea> Would also mention the current state of omnisharp dependency on this page, instead of IDE's page (maybe??)
15:46:31 <omajid> sorry, what omnisharp depenency?
15:46:59 <Rhea> Like... "these are microsoft packages, omnisharp works with them.." and "these are our copr packages that dont have the proprietary stuff omnisharp needs to run, but we hacked it... so it probably does run"
15:47:01 <Rhea> :D
15:47:14 <omajid> s/probably does run/runs/
15:47:20 <Rhea> eeeh
15:47:26 <omajid> i have been using it for much of may 101 stuff, and no errors so far :D
15:47:37 <Rhea> Well it may be just as shitty as with microsoft packages, i havent tried
15:47:39 <bt0__> :p omajid++
15:47:53 <tmds> "Microsoft provides packages for various Linux distributions at https://www.dot.net/download/linux."
15:48:03 <Rhea> The fact that you can't exactly load non-eclipse projects in eclipse and stuff around that
15:48:12 <tmds> and I wouldn't mention OmniSharp
15:48:35 <aslice> Yeah, I think any mentions of omnisharp can stay on the IDE page.
15:48:46 <omajid> i agree with tmds, no need to mention omnisharp, unless the IDE explicitly requires users to install it themselves.
15:48:58 <Rhea> okay
15:49:20 <Rhea> Now how do we make the IDEs page objective comparison...
15:49:46 <Rhea> People got butthurt when I re-ordered it to have Rider on top when the other two didn't work for the above mentioned..
15:50:02 <Rhea> Yet it was objective in my opinion.
15:50:21 <tmds> the alphabet is a well known way of ordering things :)
15:50:28 <Rhea> Right now the page just says "use vscode for netcore" and no mention of RIder cause they literally censorhipified it...
15:50:56 <aslice> Clearly, you place each description evenly in a single row...
15:51:05 <Rhea> ^
15:51:05 <omajid> uh.. sory, "you can't exactly load non-eclipse projects in eclipse"? none of my projects include ide junk and pretty much all ides (including eclipse) can load them up  fine.
15:51:54 <Rhea> creating an empty project in console, the project wouldn't load in eclipse.
15:52:00 <Rhea> Last i tried 3 months ago
15:52:10 <Rhea> Had to be created in eclipse
15:52:29 <omajid> weird.
15:52:43 <omajid> probably reach out to the eclipse folks. i am sure they will try to fix it.
15:53:09 <Rhea> Anyway... what about the IDEs...
15:53:26 <omajid> anyway, back to the topic, i understand why we dont want to put a proprietary ide on top (even if it is technicall the most functioanl/featureful)
15:53:27 <Rhea> I was also suggested that having a list of IDEs and then the summary at the end as well was kinda obsolete
15:53:33 <tmds> why does it say VS Code is .NET Core only?
15:54:03 <Rhea> tmds: can it run mono? I haven't tried recently
15:54:12 <tmds> Personally, I'd put them in alphabetical order and copy-paste a description of the IDE site
15:54:13 <Rhea> All the info up there is a bit out of date atm
15:54:16 <bt0__> alphabetical order can avoid ice wars
15:54:33 <bt0__> s/ice/ide
15:54:34 <aslice> Yeah, I'd put them alphabetical and ditch the summary.
15:54:57 <omajid> +1 for alphabetical order
15:55:12 <Rhea> The main point I'm trying to achieve is to give a developer actual information, not a sales pitch.
15:55:13 <tmds> +1 for ditching the summary
15:55:22 <omajid> maybe make a feature comparison table?
15:55:28 <Rhea> Which includes info such as "rider runs everything just fine on every platform... no other ide can do that at this time"
15:55:38 <Rhea> (if that would be true)
15:55:49 <omajid> like a table similar to one here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_integrated_development_environments
15:55:57 <Rhea> proprietary or not, truth is what matters to me
15:56:16 <aslice> +1 for truth.
15:56:29 <bt0__> cool and better +1 for comparative table
15:56:36 <Rhea> Table would actually work
15:56:42 <omajid> and we can add a cross-platform column. and maybe a "first release on" column
15:57:18 <aslice> +1 for the table, given enough differentiating features for a table to tell you anything.
15:57:46 <Rhea> It could have columns: Linux (Fedora), Windows, Mac, License, Debugger, .NETCore, Mono
15:59:03 <Rhea> Okay to not waste more time, I'll prepare some draft for next meeting. How does that sound? :)
15:59:15 <aslice> Works for me.
15:59:34 <Rhea> (speaking of that wiki page, it's'missing eclipse and rider and stuff... imma update wikipedia o_o)
15:59:46 <Rhea> #topic Packaging progress / Open Floor
15:59:52 <Rhea> Just quickly before next meeting
16:00:00 <Rhea> #info F27 builds, rawhide doesn't.
16:00:11 <Rhea> omajid why it doesn't, you mentioned clang?
16:00:48 <tmds> guys & Rhea, I need to go
16:01:07 <tmds> duty calls
16:01:15 <tmds> see you later
16:01:19 <Rhea> We all do :P
16:01:35 <Rhea> The above question is the last question...
16:01:57 <Rhea> omajid: is it a big blocker or something that will be resolved soonTM?
16:03:20 <omajid> Rhea: clang 5.0.0 has a regression. it wont compile some code that clang 4.0.0 would compile
16:03:34 <omajid> it should be fixed in clange 5.0.1, not sure when rawhide gets that
16:03:51 <omajid> i cant say anything about timelines
16:04:07 <Rhea> Okay cool
16:04:18 <Rhea> So let's end the meeting, continue next week...
16:05:39 <omajid> Rhea: thanks for chairing!
16:05:44 <Rhea> #endmeeting