11:00:19 <jibec> #startmeeting l10n
11:00:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 11 11:00:19 2017 UTC.  The chair is jibec. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:00:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
11:00:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'l10n'
11:00:27 <jibec> #chair jibec
11:00:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: jibec
11:00:34 <suanand> hi..
11:00:42 <jibec> #chair jibec aabuke noriko pravins ljanda semanticdesign
11:00:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: aabuke jibec ljanda noriko pravins semanticdesign
11:00:53 <jibec> #info Please remember numbers are tickets numbers in https://pagure.io/g11n/issues
11:01:03 <jibec> #topic Flock feedback
11:01:07 <jibec> #topic #38 Host Zanata in Fedora infrastructure
11:01:24 <jibec> no news, as always, brian (bexelbie) can't find ressources
11:01:30 <jibec> it isn't easy to host Zanata, I feel like we should close this goal as no improvments in 6 months.
11:01:56 <jibec> next ?
11:02:03 <jibec> #chair jibec aabuke noriko pravins ljanda semanticdesign suanand
11:02:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: aabuke jibec ljanda noriko pravins semanticdesign suanand
11:02:06 <pravins> jibec: if we get any help from Zanata team, will that help?
11:02:22 <pravins> though as you know, Alex mentioned last time they dont have a resource.
11:02:32 <jibec> the first step is to find someone willing to host it, and a working java server
11:02:36 <pravins> lets send them email and if no progress, good to close.
11:02:57 <pravins> jibec: so requirement is more from people side, not from hardware resources, right?
11:03:18 <jibec> I'm sure Zanata team will help, but if no one would like to be technical administrator
11:03:30 <pravins> good point !!
11:03:41 * bexelbie is lurking
11:03:46 <bexelbie> we are making progress
11:04:07 <bexelbie> there is an IT ticket working for resources - if it doesn't come through we will pivot to Plan B with new infra and more community infra support
11:04:22 <bexelbie> I am talking to Alex and others
11:04:37 <bexelbie> It is just slow :(
11:04:39 <jibec> no offense, but this means same status as november, isn't it?
11:05:11 <bexelbie> yes
11:05:23 <bexelbie> in part because part of the dependency chain had PTO :)
11:05:26 <jibec> ok, thanks bexelbie, good luck with this...
11:05:28 <bexelbie> and not offended
11:05:33 <bexelbie> slight movement is not no movement
11:05:40 <noriko> bexelbie, can you point the ticket?
11:05:41 <bexelbie> but that is also not significant movement
11:05:42 <jibec> please translate "PTO" ;)
11:05:57 <bexelbie> noriko, the ticket in question is internal to IT inside of RH
11:06:01 <bexelbie> PTO = vacation/holiday
11:06:08 <jibec> thanks, next subject
11:06:13 <jibec> #topic #39 Using Transtats to track out-of-schedule string change for F28
11:06:16 <noriko> Okioki, kinda I knew it
11:06:27 <jibec> suanand: would you like to talk about your work,
11:06:29 <jibec> ?
11:06:37 <suanand> jibec, just one point: included f28 in transtats.xyz
11:07:17 <jibec> can you write an email to mailing list about what works now and how to use it for f28?
11:07:18 <jonatoni> hello :)
11:07:19 <suanand> some discussion around track out-of-schedule string change is happening here: https://github.com/transtats/transtats/issues/69
11:07:35 <suanand> jibec, good point, I will
11:07:46 <rluzynski> Hi, sorry for being late.
11:08:13 <jibec> we need to find out how to help the F28 release with this new tool
11:08:20 <jonatoni|m> hello :)
11:08:29 <jibec> so, it's time to communicate about the current status :)
11:08:29 <suanand> working on koji and stuffs to look into translation diffs more closely
11:08:33 <noriko> Hi jonatoni abd rluzynski
11:08:49 <jonatoni> Hi noriko ;)
11:09:14 <jibec> next
11:09:20 <jibec> #topic #40 The documentation system reboot & translation
11:09:31 <jibec> Test with French language is undergoing, here is our tracking pad : https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/fedora-docs-internationalization-jibecfed
11:09:56 <jibec> there is a little patch stuck in Brian's hands to finish this work
11:10:12 <jibec> tests are good, only finalization step is stuck
11:10:56 <jibec> bexelbie or bexelbie[m]: anything to add ?
11:11:49 <jibec> once this patch is done, we'll have to figure out the publishing process and how to enable new languages (this isn't fully automated)
11:11:57 <jibec> next?
11:12:12 <jibec> #topic #32 T-shirts for active contributors of Translation group
11:12:23 <jibec> t-shirts are printed, cards are not
11:12:54 <jibec> ticket is here: https://pagure.io/design/issue/557
11:13:03 <pravins> bexelbie: anything required from anyone of us here?
11:13:05 <jibec> this is an outstandingly long task...
11:13:15 <jibec> but we'll finish it someday :p
11:13:22 <pravins> jibec: it involved multiple printing ;)
11:13:34 <jonatoni> we will have more experience for the next time :P
11:13:56 <jibec> yes, let's hope we'll improve ;)
11:14:07 <pravins> but i am more happy for Card we are going to print, i will keep it on my Desk B-)
11:14:26 <jibec> I just sent a new comment in the design ticket
11:14:36 <jibec> let's hope it moves forward
11:14:37 * pravins checking
11:14:49 <jibec> next subject
11:14:51 <jibec> #topic #35 FAS group for L10N #37 FAS group cleanup
11:14:54 <pravins> 👍
11:15:04 <jibec> still waiting for a script from infrastructure team
11:15:32 <jibec> the cvsl10n management is just a pain, is badly designed, i'm the only one to do it for now
11:15:38 <pravins> jibec: who suppose to write script?
11:16:09 <jibec> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6320
11:16:23 <jibec> kevin said : codeblock pingou or puiterwijk
11:17:18 <jibec> if they draft something, I can improve it and use it often to have a sync between zanata and FAS, but for now...
11:17:44 <jibec> next
11:17:47 <jibec> #topic #43 Adding Filipino
11:18:06 <jibec> aabuke: can you please tell us what is the status of your team? :)
11:18:38 <aabuke> jibec, i am coordinating with instructors and recruiting students to join us.
11:19:37 <jibec> good, can you please translate one package so filipino is available for F28?
11:19:43 <aabuke> I will be ready by 2018, i found out that i was a member of transifex and voluteered for translation but I felt guilty that I joined fedora first...
11:19:47 <jibec> I suggested media writer
11:20:04 <aabuke> Sure...
11:20:04 <rluzynski> aabuke: I think that you can also translate on your own, you don't absolutely need to recruit other people if that's difficult.
11:20:28 <noriko> +1 rluzynski
11:20:34 <jibec> that's true, having a team is just making it easier
11:20:40 <jibec> it isn't mandatory
11:20:46 <aabuke> rluzynsi: noted!
11:21:29 <jibec> so, about blog post to promote this translation, do someone feel like drafting something?
11:22:17 * pravins appreciating aabuke efforts on Filipino language translations. 👍
11:22:42 <aabuke> am not a good writer, :) can anyone give me a sample promotions made by fedora ? it will help me get started...
11:23:05 <aabuke> pravins: thanks...
11:23:34 <jibec> semanticdesign: do you feel like it?
11:23:57 <semanticdesign> i am sorry. no :)
11:24:03 <jibec> haha, I had to try :p
11:24:17 <jibec> ok, I'll draft it if nobody volonteers ;)
11:24:23 <aabuke> next year, i am planning to give out shirts to those who will help me... locally,
11:24:40 <jibec> ok! good idea
11:24:49 <jibec> ok, next subject?
11:25:06 <aabuke> do i need approval on the shirt prints?
11:25:16 <noriko> f
11:25:35 <jibec> haha, I suggest to first focus on your translation and communication and recruitment
11:25:45 <jibec> then we'll help you with this tshirt thing
11:26:02 <aabuke> jibec: thank you!
11:26:02 <jibec> we already have to finish our tshirt distribution, we may have some left you may reuse
11:26:15 <jibec> on step at a time :)
11:26:40 <aabuke> Appreciate that one! :)
11:26:44 <jibec> but to have tshirt you need money, which you request to concil, which is easy to say, but also takes time
11:26:56 <jibec> #topic #45 cvsl10n - november followup
11:27:02 <jibec> I removed request of FAS users
11:27:15 <jibec> which are not in Zanata and did not answer my emails
11:27:29 <jibec> there is nothing more here, next
11:27:53 <pravins> jibec: excellent, happy you took action finally.
11:27:53 <jibec> #topic #48 Fedora 28 translation sprint l10n
11:28:14 <jibec> We should probably run a translation sprint for Fedora 28 :) -> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/28/Schedule
11:28:31 <jibec> 2018-02-06 is software String Freeze
11:28:48 <bexelbie> pravins, sorry for delayed response - we are missing a bunch of addresses
11:29:04 <jibec> bexelbie: please wait for the end of the meeting
11:29:42 <jibec> can we plan translation sprint for the week before string freeze?
11:30:03 <pravins> jibec: good to start it 2 week before.
11:30:14 <jibec> january 22th ?
11:30:37 <pravins> 👍
11:30:44 <jibec> 2018-02-20 is  Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable)  and  Branch Fedora 28 from Rawhide (Rawhide becomes future F29)
11:31:18 <jibec> can we take this milestone as the beginning of our translation sprint? (and be part of the official communications)
11:31:35 <rluzynski> jibec: shouldn't the translations be *after* the string freeze?
11:32:02 <jibec> oups rluzynski, you're right
11:32:11 <jibec> I meant 2018-03-06 Software Translation Deadline
11:32:28 <rluzynski> OK, now it's correct. :)
11:32:38 <jibec> same date but one month later, it was a mistake :p
11:33:13 <jibec> so, what do you think about take the branching and change checkpoint as the beginning of our translation sprint? (and be part of the official communications)
11:35:16 <jibec> well, let's do this as nobody says : it's a bad idea :p
11:35:25 <pravins> ha ha. Why?
11:35:35 <noriko> No no, I just don't understand the point.
11:35:36 <pravins> 2 weeks before string freeze is good idea :)
11:35:44 <rluzynski> jibec: so you mean 2018-02-20?
11:36:17 <jibec> yep, and I'll ask the Fedora Release Manager to includes this milestone in official communications
11:36:35 <pravins> "this milestone"??
11:36:41 <rluzynski> that's Tuesday, is that OK?
11:37:44 <rluzynski> otherwise looks good to me. Does not start immediately after the string freeze and does not end immediately before the translation deadline.
11:37:45 <jibec> well, it's the Fedora rhythm that makes it a Tuesday, I don't see any problem with this
11:38:02 <rluzynski> OK :)
11:38:31 <jibec> by Milestone, I meant: the translation sprint start
11:39:05 <pravins> got it !!
11:39:40 <jibec> do someone feel like being the coordinator of this ticket? It means writing/communicating/drafting blog posts, etc.
11:40:30 <jibec> I listed subtasks inside the ticket, but many may have to be added
11:40:49 <jibec> ok, next subject, please answer the ticket
11:40:53 <jibec> #topic #49 Red Hat now have a translation program manager (REHL, not Fedora)
11:41:23 <jibec> ljanda: would you like to introduce yourself
11:41:25 <jibec> ?
11:41:26 <ljanda> That looks to be my topic :-)
11:41:47 <ljanda> Hi everybody, hi noriko, my name is Ludek, I am the new l10n PgM for RHEL
11:42:18 <ljanda> The reason why I am here is that it seems to me that a link between RHEL and Fedora localization got broken
11:42:27 <pravins> hi ljanda, welcome to Fedora l10n meeting !!
11:42:28 <noriko> hi
11:42:35 <jonatoni> hi
11:42:42 <aabuke> hi
11:42:49 <rluzynski> hi, that's sounds exciting...
11:43:02 <ljanda> Hi all
11:43:35 <ljanda> My main worry is that our Japanese translations we do in-house can't be pushed to upstream in many cases
11:43:59 <ljanda> Sometimes packagers refuse them saying correctly that they should come through upstream
11:45:07 <jibec> which is a good behavior, but we need to help to find out a solution :)
11:45:26 <jibec> (I mean: upstream first)
11:45:47 <rluzynski> ljanda: technically it is possible to apply patches downstream. Of course it's better to push upstream first. But if upstream refuses then you have no choice.
11:45:47 <noriko> The solution is that RH japanese translator joins the community and contribute upstream.
11:46:03 <rluzynski> noriko +1
11:46:34 <jibec> noriko: it also what I told ljanda by email, we need people to interact with and be part of our teams so we work together
11:46:55 <noriko> Patching downstream might have still a problem
11:47:08 <ljanda> We do apply translations downstream as patches, but there is a risk of regressions and lost translation work
11:47:33 <noriko> Cz redhat claims it is opensource, and a package can dependent to other package which is fully opensource.
11:48:07 <rluzynski> ljanda and noriko: of course I understand this may take time but my point is that it's possible. Difficult but possible.
11:48:30 <jibec> well, no need to explain to Fedora contributors that upstream first is the general rule to follow
11:48:37 * noriko knew and reminded it hundreds times.... Last year...
11:49:12 <ljanda> At the same time I can't imagine our translators contributing to upstream - too busy and tight RHEL schedules
11:50:09 <pravins> Can Fedora Japanese translators help to review and push these translation in Fedora Zanata at least?  (off course i think depends on language maintainer)
11:50:10 <rluzynski> ljanda: it seems to me that contributing upstream takes less time than maintaining downstream patches.
11:50:31 <pravins> rluzynski: yeah, agree. Maintaining patches is tricky.
11:50:49 <noriko> I agree too
11:50:53 <jibec> well, let's close this subject for now
11:50:59 <jibec> ljanda: please open a ticket on this matter
11:51:07 <rluzynski> pravins: I'm afraid this is not about the packages which are in zanata. ljanda: are you talking about the packages in zanata or not in zanata?
11:51:09 <jibec> so we can discuss it together
11:51:18 <pravins> jibec: sure !!
11:51:23 <noriko> ljanda, I recommend to identify the problem of the packagers side.
11:51:25 <noriko> first
11:51:36 <noriko> It can narrow down the path.
11:51:44 <jibec> so, this ticket should includes the points rised by noriko, rluzynski and pravins
11:51:49 <noriko> Sorry jibec yup
11:51:55 <jibec> so
11:51:58 <ljanda> noriko: what do you mean to identify the problem of the packagers side"?
11:52:02 <pravins> yeah, good to Copy paste from long as a start.
11:52:07 <jibec> ljanda: please stop :)
11:52:14 <ljanda> jibec: okay
11:52:15 <jibec> we still have a few subjects
11:53:18 <jibec> first : I do invite L10N contributors to rise any question or problem they currently have related to the RHEL product
11:53:47 <jibec> for example, I have no idea when are the release and when to translate, so I do not forward any information to the french translation team
11:54:02 <jibec> again, please open a ticket, and feel free for any kind of question
11:54:09 <jibec> next subject
11:54:13 <jibec> #topic #50 The new Fedora wiki homepage needs translation
11:54:29 <jibec> you may have release our wiki got "improved"
11:54:31 <jibec> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki
11:54:40 <jibec> the design changed, and the first page
11:55:04 <jibec> do someone feel like adding the translation box and communicating to translator to tell them how to contribute?
11:55:11 <jibec> it's pretty simple to do :)
11:56:07 <jonatoni> do we have a deadline for this?
11:56:12 <jibec> nope
11:56:25 <jonatoni> then I can help
11:56:27 <jibec> and I will not do it and let it open for any newcomer :p
11:56:37 <jibec> \o/
11:56:41 <noriko> hahah
11:56:55 <jibec> thank you jonatoni
11:56:58 <jibec> #topic Open floor
11:57:11 <jibec> bexelbie: you had something to say about tshirts?
11:57:21 <aabuke> i can finance the shirt locally
11:57:30 <pravins> bexelbie:  these many members not replied to our emails : flavius, aurisc4, rzil, feonsu, ouesten, ricardopinto, lstemmle, tiansworld, mosquito, sujiniku, sewerx, evillagr, laskov, redandrei, ypoyarko
11:57:49 <pravins> me, jonatoni|m jibec have tried multiple time but no response. :(
11:58:13 <bexelbie> pravins, ok.  Can you work with kjandova to let her know to make another attempt - we are almost done with the cards and then they go to jibec for signing then we mail
11:58:47 <pravins> bexelbie: yeah, sure. jonatoni|m in that list, looks you have sent email to more members.
11:59:06 * bexelbie looks to kjandova - who is unfortunately in class right now
11:59:11 <pravins> lets, cc in those email kjandova and try one more time. That will be easy.
11:59:19 <jonatoni> yep sure
11:59:27 <bexelbie> we should try to do direct emails to only them
11:59:34 <bexelbie> maybe they filter and we tripped a filter
11:59:44 <jibec> good, any other subject?
11:59:49 <aabuke> jibec: what i meant was I can shoulder the budget for local production of shirts which I can give to local contributors. Do i still need approval of the prints?
12:00:06 <aabuke> fedora logo? or anything?
12:00:13 <pravins> bexelbie: we did direct email only, so this time we will keep kjandova in CC, so she can follow-up if required. :)
12:00:32 <bexelbie> ahh, cool
12:00:43 <bexelbie> if we are going to do new shirts
12:00:48 <bexelbie> we have a new way to do this that is much easier
12:00:58 <bexelbie> we have a company that will manage print runs.  We send a coupon code to each person
12:01:08 <bexelbie> they go to the vendor website and place an order for a free shirt that meets their needs
12:01:17 <bexelbie> this way we just distribute codes and tell people when they need to order by
12:01:20 <pravins> bexelbie: wow, thats great !!
12:01:21 <bexelbie> everyone gets a high quality shirt
12:01:27 <bexelbie> much easier :)
12:01:27 <jibec> aabuke: we already have a tshirt design you may reuse
12:01:37 <bexelbie> we can most likely also get them to slipstream a new card for us
12:01:38 <pravins> bexelbie: what about aabuke question? ^^
12:01:51 <bexelbie> what is the context for aabuke question?
12:02:04 <jibec> and if you pay for it, there is no request to write I assume, just open a ticket in g11n tracker so we can send you the appropriate link
12:02:12 * pravins leaving for now. Thanks jibec for hosting this very active meeting !!
12:02:16 <jibec> with the tshirt design
12:02:25 <aabuke> thanks!
12:02:25 <jibec> #topic Next meeting
12:02:26 <semanticdesign> i wanted to know if there is an interest in translating developer docs in general, parts that are not included in the official fedora documentation. what is the investment to transfer this stuff @zanata? it is next to git (for me as translator) an issue to find reviewers for this. it makes things more complicate. my personal impression
12:02:32 <jibec> #topic Open floor
12:02:34 <bexelbie> if we ar eprinting t-shirts, we should pay for them and ensure quality
12:02:38 <rluzynski> I have a simple question related with my current open source contribution: does anybody have this issue in their native language that the dates are formatted incorrectly in Fedora because the month name should be in a genitive case (or any other special case) which is currently not supported?
12:02:53 <jibec> okay, please stop all :)
12:02:57 <jibec> tshirt subject is close
12:02:59 <semanticdesign> lol
12:03:05 <jibec> semanticdesign question first
12:03:38 <jibec> most of the time, dev content is not translated, as upstream don't feel the need to do it
12:03:56 <jibec> the general rule for Fedora apps is the same, contributor tools are not translated for the same reason
12:03:59 * jonatoni needs to go.
12:04:16 <jibec> this doesn't mean it is impossible, it just depends on the will of the upstream project
12:04:30 <jibec> semanticdesign: does it answer? (need to close this meeting)
12:04:42 <semanticdesign> so this is more a finger exercise for me if they are not willing to publish translation
12:04:53 <jibec> yep
12:04:59 <semanticdesign> okay answered
12:05:18 <jibec> rluzynski's question now, do someone had the same issue? (I did not)
12:05:47 <rluzynski> most probably the answer to my question is "nobody here" but just in case. So let's consider it answered.
12:05:53 <jibec> ok
12:05:57 <jibec> #topic Next meeting
12:06:03 <jibec> I should do it in a month or so
12:06:20 <jibec> please remember to stop by our mailing list or issue tracker and finish tasks :p
12:06:28 <jibec> thank you everyone
12:06:31 <jibec> #endmeeting