06:31:08 <paragan> #startmeeting i18n
06:31:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 20 06:31:08 2017 UTC.  The chair is paragan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
06:31:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
06:31:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:31:08 <paragan> #meetingname i18n
06:31:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'i18n'
06:31:08 <paragan> #topic agenda and roll call
06:31:08 <paragan> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2017-12-20
06:31:15 <mfabian> ☺
06:31:19 <tagoh> hi
06:31:21 <epico> hi
06:31:37 <bhavin192> hi
06:31:39 <suanand> hi..
06:32:34 <paragan> #chair mfabian tagoh epico bhavin192 suanand
06:32:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: bhavin192 epico mfabian paragan suanand tagoh
06:32:38 <paragan> Hi all
06:33:03 <paragan> Welcome to the last meeting of this 2017 year :)
06:33:46 <paragan> Let's start
06:34:40 <suanand> :)
06:34:55 <paragan> We are now into Fedora 28 development cycle
06:35:23 <paragan> but soon we are approaching to holiday season
06:35:46 <paragan> and most people will be on vacation for next 2 weeks almost so nothing much development will happen.
06:36:11 <paragan> The important thing to note for current Fedora development is https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/modularity-dead-long-live-modularity/
06:36:37 <fujiwarat> hi
06:36:45 <paragan> It looks like some discussion are going to happen in DevConf about redesign of the Modularity project.
06:36:57 <paragan> #chair fujiwarat
06:36:57 <zodbot> Current chairs: bhavin192 epico fujiwarat mfabian paragan suanand tagoh
06:37:56 <paragan> Let's go through what the Fedora 28 schedule current milestones are
06:38:26 <paragan> #topic Upcoming schedule
06:38:26 <paragan> #info 2017-11-14        Fedora 27 Release
06:38:26 <paragan> #info 2018-01-09        Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (System Wide Changes)
06:38:26 <paragan> #info 2018-01-09         Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (Changes requiring mass rebuild)
06:38:26 <paragan> #info 2018-01-30        Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (Self Contained Changes)
06:38:28 <paragan> #info 2018-01-31        Mass Rebuild
06:39:15 <paragan> so mostly the current milestone is related to submitting the Change proposals
06:39:54 <paragan> we will discuss about changes in the Change ticket in next topic
06:40:30 <paragan> #topic No assignee issues
06:41:23 <paragan> #info #82: Fedora 28 i18n test day  (pnemade)
06:41:23 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/82
06:42:35 <juhp> hi
06:42:43 <paragan> Fedora QA people asking to fix the date for F28 i18n test day.
06:42:49 <paragan> #chair juhp
06:42:49 <zodbot> Current chairs: bhavin192 epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan suanand tagoh
06:43:45 <paragan> Though I can see its early to fix such date but considering previous test days, I propose 5th April 2018 for i18n test day.
06:45:20 <juhp> Just checking?  We still feel the testday event is useful?
06:45:48 <juhp> I feel it is, but want to know what other people think
06:46:15 <juhp> s/Just checking?/Just checking/
06:46:32 <paragan> I think its important as by doing that we first get general Fedora iso testing and then along with that we get testing of i18n packages and Changes
06:46:45 <juhp> okay good
06:48:21 <paragan> The reason to choose this date is if everything goes as per schedule then
06:48:46 <paragan> we will be having F28 beta released before this date otherwise
06:49:17 <paragan> we will be having any release candidate of frozen F28 which will be also okay for us to test i18n features on the test day.
06:49:42 <juhp> okay
06:49:44 <paragan> Can you please reply if you people are okay with this date?
06:49:47 <paragan> #chair
06:49:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: bhavin192 epico fujiwarat juhp mfabian paragan suanand tagoh
06:50:12 <juhp> so it is same place in schedule as for f27?
06:50:17 <mfabian> I think the date is OK.
06:51:08 <paragan> yes
06:51:13 <paragan> same place as for f27
06:51:14 <juhp> okay
06:51:26 <tagoh> may depends on changes we want to test? given that there are any drastic changes proposed, we may want to test it earlier than beta? dunno
06:51:29 <juhp> sounds fine to me then
06:51:30 * suanand thinks date is ok
06:51:41 <juhp> tagoh: hmm true
06:52:00 <juhp> tagoh: we could also have a separate test day for CJK fonts?
06:52:29 <tagoh> juhp: sure. that would be fine.
06:52:30 <juhp> in the long term I would also favourite more focused targeted test days where it makes sense
06:52:43 <juhp> erm favour
06:52:58 <paragan> tagoh, agree but we are going to have test day after " Change Checkpoint: 100% Code Complete Deadline " milestone
06:53:31 <juhp> also the translation deadline - though that should really be the l10n testday
06:54:19 <paragan> so both above milestone falls on 6th March and we are proposing 5th April
06:54:31 <juhp> yep
06:54:34 <juhp> I know
06:55:22 <paragan> it is difficult to choose between beta freeze to beta release rain date
06:55:31 <paragan> almost a month time
06:57:57 <paragan> if anyone want to propose any other date please do so now
06:58:27 <juhp> I think your proposal is good - so why don't we go with that for now
06:58:41 <paragan> cool
06:58:50 <tagoh> how about testing after "Change Checkpoint: Completion deadline (testable)" event? maybe still works enough for testing purpose no?
07:00:03 <paragan> I still think we should wait for Beta freeze
07:00:10 <juhp> tagoh: might be early
07:00:16 <tagoh> hm, okay
07:00:20 <juhp> tagoh: Then I would propose March
07:00:34 <juhp> ie after 100%
07:00:48 <paragan> if need early date then take 13th March
07:01:04 <paragan> one week after Beta freeze
07:01:10 <juhp> do we want to have any other test days?  Maybe we should discuss the Changes first...?
07:02:12 <tagoh> juhp: perhaps
07:02:30 <paragan> Okay let's postpone the decision till next meeting then
07:02:43 <paragan> Let's move to next ticket.
07:02:48 <juhp> paragan: we could put those two suggestions in the ticket at least :)
07:03:11 <juhp> Yes there is still good time to think
07:03:11 <paragan> I have added 5th April there
07:03:27 <paragan> what other date to be added?
07:03:39 <juhp> 13th March that you suggeseted
07:03:43 <paragan> okay
07:04:15 <paragan> #info Let's discuss in the next meeting on this ticket, we got 2 suggestions 13th March and 5th April 2018
07:04:42 <paragan> #info #83: Tracker for Fedora 28 Changes (pnemade)
07:04:42 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/83
07:05:05 <paragan> Anyone already submitted any change for Fedora 28?
07:06:30 <paragan> If not please do so early and add link of that Change to this ticket.
07:07:28 <mfabian> I should submit a change for the collation changes in glibc, this is getting quite significant.
07:07:45 <paragan> good
07:08:15 <paragan> fujiwarat, you planning to submit any Change proposal for ibus?
07:08:34 <fujiwarat> yes next year.
07:09:11 <paragan> okay
07:09:22 <paragan> tagoh, you planning for fontconfig?
07:09:50 <tagoh> paragan: and default font changes yes. will do that shortly
07:10:22 <paragan> cool
07:10:58 <paragan> epico, any change proposals from you?
07:11:28 <epico> no
07:11:37 <juhp> tagoh: great please
07:11:50 <juhp> I feel that one is critical to get attention and feedback
07:12:03 <tagoh> juhp: yep
07:12:38 <paragan> #info In planning we may have F28 Change proposals for collation changes in glibc, ibus enhancement, fontconfig and default font change
07:13:14 <juhp> then just returning to earlier discussion:
07:13:26 <juhp> do we need any specific test days for any of these changes?
07:14:02 <juhp> maybe also for collation dunno?
07:14:16 <juhp> though dunno "how to test" hmm
07:15:27 <juhp> or we just handle through the i18n test day?
07:15:42 <juhp> tagoh, mfabian: ?
07:17:01 <tagoh> for me, it may be up to how I set the contingency plan? if just testing on apps is sufficient we could cover it under the usual i18n test day testing perhaps.
07:17:05 <mfabian> Thinking about how to test the collation, this is quite subtle ...
07:17:22 <juhp> though we would probably only get CJK testers for the fonts so it might be too limited
07:17:39 <juhp> tagoh: okay right
07:18:09 <juhp> tagoh: yeah probably most important thing is to land the change as early as possible to gain as much testing as possible
07:18:35 <juhp> through the whole cycle
07:18:36 <tagoh> juhp: right. let me think about it during writing changes anyway.
07:18:42 <juhp> sure sure
07:18:45 <juhp> okay
07:18:49 <juhp> mfabian: yeah
07:19:14 <mfabian> I am adding test files to glib, in most cases there were no test files at all.
07:19:47 <juhp> mfabian: any idea when the changes might become available in f28? I know it is still ongoing work
07:19:47 <mfabian> The old collation is probably wrong in many cases, I just sync it with CLDR now. But this will introduce a lot of changes.
07:19:56 <juhp> mfabian: great
07:20:05 <juhp> mfabian: yeah
07:20:11 <mfabian> I hope I can finish it over Christmas to make the deadline for glibc 2.27.
07:20:18 <juhp> awesome
07:20:24 <juhp> that would be great
07:20:39 <mfabian> So we will get it in f28 *if* f28 will get glibc 2.27 (I am not sure about that at the moment ...)
07:21:02 <juhp> mfabian: when is the deadline for 2.27?
07:21:11 <mfabian> Biggest problem I have at the moment is with the cmn_TW stroke count sorting.
07:21:16 <juhp> mfabian: or we can patch i guess
07:21:49 <juhp> but it is desirable to have this kind of change upstream
07:22:11 <mfabian> “The current development version of glibc 2.27, releasing on or around February 1, 2018”
07:22:19 <juhp> or we end up with fedora glibc behaving differently - so maybe patching is not so good
07:22:28 <juhp> I see
07:22:39 <juhp> mfabian: I think it should be possible then
07:22:47 <mfabian> No, I don’t think we want to patch that, just wait for the release.
07:23:03 <juhp> right
07:23:17 <juhp> Maybe there will be a glibc 2.27 Change?
07:26:58 <paragan> unable to find Change for glibc 2.27
07:29:00 <paragan> anything more to discuss here?
07:31:16 <paragan> I assume not
07:31:46 <paragan> Let's move to the next ticket
07:31:50 <paragan> #info #84: Fedora 26 Bug triaging (pnemade)
07:31:50 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/84
07:32:15 <paragan> Last week F25 bugs got EOL'ed. See https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-25-end-life/
07:32:37 <paragan> Let's work on Fedora 26 i18n bugs to triage them and either fix them or move to rawhide.
07:33:05 <juhp> yes
07:33:45 <paragan> okay
07:33:50 <paragan> Let's move to next ticket.
07:34:49 <paragan> #info #85: Docs Beats for Fedora 28 (pnemade)
07:34:49 <paragan> #link https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/85
07:35:37 <paragan> I think we have just started for Fedora 28 development cycle so I don't think we have anything here to add.
07:37:12 <paragan> Let's move to next ticket.
07:37:26 <paragan> oh there are no tickets left to discuss :)
07:37:35 <paragan> #topic Open Floor
07:37:38 <suanand> (just thinking) how can we speed up transtats deployment in fedora: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/6459
07:37:53 <juhp> suanand: what is the current status?
07:38:13 <suanand> waiting response from fedora-infra
07:39:02 <suanand> this: https://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/infra/docs/docs/sysadmin-guide/sops/requestforresources.rst do not tell any thing abt openshift deployment :(
07:40:40 <juhp> suanand: is the fedora openshift instance available now?
07:41:11 <paragan> that SOP is dated from 2015 year
07:41:38 <suanand> juhp: to us? nope
07:41:53 <suanand> juhp
07:42:37 <juhp> I guess only Fedora Infra will have access?
07:42:45 <paragan> looks like most of the Fedora Infra work is/was scheduled for Q3/Q4 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Engineering/FY18_Plan#Infrastructure_and_General
07:43:01 <suanand> juhp: I guess - Yes
07:43:25 <suanand> paragan, aha
07:44:20 <juhp> I see
07:44:37 <paragan> I will say keep following with the Fedora Infra team on that ticket
07:46:18 <suanand> juhp, paragan, keep following seems the only option - long way to go though :p
07:46:25 <paragan> yeah
07:46:39 <juhp> I guess so - not too long I hope though
07:47:09 <juhp> But probably have to wait until January until you can find help during the holiday period
07:47:12 <juhp> unless
07:47:44 <paragan> I propose to cancel the meeting on 3rd Jan 2018 and have the next meeting on 17th Jan 2018. Most of the people will be on vacation in next 2 weeks so there will not by any updates to look into in the next meeting.
07:47:47 <suanand> juhp: yeah certainly
07:48:25 <juhp> paragan: or move to 10th?
07:48:48 <juhp> would be good to check on Changes anyway whether we have meeting or now
07:48:50 <juhp> not
07:49:24 <juhp> Though it is already after System Wide proposal deadline
07:49:32 <paragan> Okay I will re-schedule the calendar and start 2 weeks meeting from 10th Jan 2018
07:49:40 <juhp> okay
07:49:55 <paragan> #info Next meeting will be on 10th Jan 2018
07:50:13 <paragan> anymore things to discuss?
07:50:23 <mfabian> 🎄🎅
07:50:32 <paragan> thanks all who came to this meeting
07:50:45 <paragan> this looks so nice in color :)
07:50:55 <suanand> merry Christmas , everyone!
07:51:14 <suanand> mfabian++
07:51:14 <zodbot> suanand: Karma for mfabian changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
07:51:21 <paragan> Merry Christmas to all
07:52:04 <epico> Merry Christmas :)
07:52:04 <paragan> closing now
07:52:30 <paragan> #endmeeting