16:00:21 <mattdm> #startmeeting Council (2018-04-25) 16:00:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 25 16:00:21 2018 UTC. The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2018-04-25)' 16:00:22 <mattdm> #meetingname council 16:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council' 16:00:24 <mattdm> #chair mattdm jkurik jwb langdon robyduck bexelbie dperpeet Amita nb dgilmore pbrobinson 16:00:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: Amita bexelbie dgilmore dperpeet jkurik jwb langdon mattdm nb pbrobinson robyduck 16:00:38 <mattdm> good $TIMEOFDAY, everyone! 16:01:41 * pbrobinson waves to everyone 16:02:19 <mattdm> anyone else around? 16:02:22 <langdon> .hello2 16:02:25 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@redhat.com> 16:02:27 <mattdm> okay that's one :) 16:02:30 <mattdm> I mean, two. 16:02:38 * x3mlinux is lurking 16:02:39 <langdon> I'm here.. on mobile for ten m though 16:02:39 <mattdm> well, three, if you count me. 16:02:43 <bexelbie> .hello bex 16:02:44 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bexelbie@redhat.com> 16:02:45 <bexelbie> brb 16:02:52 <mattdm> heh. 16:02:56 <langdon> mattdm we don't ;) 16:03:05 <mattdm> *sigh* 16:03:24 <dgilmore> mattdm: I am kinda here, doing double meeting duty 16:03:46 <mattdm> okay :) 16:03:55 <mattdm> let's wait for bex to get back and then get started 16:05:02 <bexelbie> back 16:05:06 <mattdm> okay :) 16:05:09 <mattdm> #topic Agenda 16:05:31 <mattdm> This is our monthly open floor meeting, where we generally don't prepare in advance and can talk about anything :) 16:05:49 <mattdm> Generally, we collect topics now and then I arrange them into a rough agenda 16:06:06 <mattdm> this week, since last week didn't work, the first thing is pbrobinson presenting on the state of the iot objective 16:06:20 <mattdm> the other thing I have is RH Summit 16:06:30 <mattdm> what other topics should we cover? 16:06:46 <bexelbie> it'd be nice to settle the budget ticket, but it can wait 16:06:50 <bexelbie> so make that last 16:06:55 <jwb> what isn't settled? 16:07:26 * x3mboy is still lurking but now from PC 16:07:30 <mattdm> oh hi josh :) 16:07:47 <mattdm> let's find out the answer to that quesrtion when we get there 16:07:51 <mattdm> any other topics? 16:08:03 <x3mboy> ! 16:08:43 <bexelbie> answer to what question? 16:08:51 <mattdm> x3mboy: yes? 16:08:57 <mattdm> bexelbie: the "what isn't settled" question 16:09:05 <x3mboy> I have a question regarding the Council-docs 16:09:19 <mattdm> okay. I'll add that in. SO: 16:09:22 <mattdm> #info Agenda 16:09:28 <x3mboy> I have a PR that isn't checked yet 16:09:29 <mattdm> #info 1. IoT Objective Update 16:09:37 <mattdm> #info 2. RH Summit stuff 16:09:44 <mattdm> #info 3. Council Docs 16:09:51 <mattdm> #info 4. FY19 budget 16:10:05 <mattdm> and that'll probably take the next 50 minutes, so there we go :) 16:10:11 <mattdm> #topic IoT Objective Update 16:10:14 <mattdm> hi pbrobinson! 16:10:31 * pbrobinson o/ 16:10:41 <pbrobinson> so IoT is moving forward slowly 16:11:08 <pbrobinson> hoping to get the first compose out in the next few days once people stop bothering me about that other release 16:11:39 <mattdm> that other release? 16:11:44 <pbrobinson> F28 16:11:47 <mattdm> oh that :) 16:12:07 <mattdm> How are things going in setting up a working group? 16:12:08 <pbrobinson> once the compose process is in place I'm going to switch to setting up the Working Group 16:12:11 <langdon> the f28 one? ;) 16:12:25 * langdon lags 16:12:53 <pbrobinson> if there's any docs on the requirements of a WG anywhere (I've yet to search the wiki or anything useful) 16:13:13 <pbrobinson> basically the 3 short term things on my list are: 16:13:26 <pbrobinson> 1) a nightly compose so people can start to kick tyres 16:13:26 <langdon> we just cloned one of the others for modularity 16:13:27 <mattdm> The basic requirement is: have a charter, and have regular meetings 16:13:38 <mattdm> and probably a ticket queue, because experience shows that that helps drive things. 16:13:39 <pbrobinson> 2) WG process and docs 16:13:48 <pbrobinson> 3) schedule a regular meeting 16:13:49 <mattdm> I can help with that. 16:13:57 <mattdm> with 2. not with 3. :) 16:14:01 <bexelbie> mattdm, write it up for the policies docs :D 16:14:06 <pbrobinson> mattdm: I have the beginning of a ticket queue in pagure 16:14:11 <mattdm> bexelbie: yeah, yeah, yeah. :) 16:14:13 <nb> I am here 16:14:16 <nb> sorry, work meeting ran long 16:14:21 <mattdm> hi nb! topic is IoT 16:14:24 <pbrobinson> https://pagure.io/iot 16:14:41 <mattdm> pbrobinson: I was thinkign about putting out a call for a volunteer IoT WG cooordinator 16:15:00 <mattdm> Someone to help with the logistics and meetings and stuff -- not necessarily a technical role 16:15:15 <mattdm> might be a good way for someone on the edges of the project to get involved 16:15:29 <mattdm> and by "I was thinking about..." I mean "Shower idea this morning" 16:15:36 <pbrobinson> mattdm: that works for me, I'll sync with you OOB to co-ordinate that 16:15:59 <mattdm> cool. 16:16:18 <mattdm> are there things (other than shipping f28) that are blockign the nightly compose? 16:16:43 <pbrobinson> just my time basically, I have all the infra bits in place 16:16:58 * mattdm nods 16:17:11 <pbrobinson> I was hoping to work on it earlier this week as I wasn't expecting to be thumped so hard with F28 stuff this week 16:17:18 <mattdm> Since your time is a limited and precious commodity, we definitely need to figure out how to scale up the community 16:17:20 <pbrobinson> so plan is tomorrow/friday 16:17:44 <pbrobinson> yes, I have plans and thoughts about the scaling side of things 16:18:00 <pbrobinson> but that starts with me getting a compose running so people can start to get involved 16:18:36 <mattdm> Yeah, I can see that. 16:18:37 <bexelbie> let me know how I can help with the scaling part as well 16:19:05 <pbrobinson> yup 16:20:00 <mattdm> Okay, so, that seems like a reasonable near-term approach. 16:20:13 <mattdm> And, actually, kind of bleeds into the RH Summit thing 16:20:17 <jwb> is there a set of devices you're going to target to start with? 16:20:40 <pbrobinson> yes, that's my general thoughts, get a compose happening by the end of the month and have nightly builds 16:20:45 <mattdm> Do we have anything people should show off / talk about at the fedora booth? 16:20:55 <pbrobinson> then look at how we start to do "four week IoT" 16:21:08 <pbrobinson> not really 16:21:30 <pbrobinson> I can probably provide a bunch of talking points 16:21:34 <langdon> what is 4 wk iot? 16:22:04 <mattdm> talking points would be super-helpful. 16:22:12 <mattdm> if you can add that to the todo-list I'd be grateful 16:22:14 <pbrobinson> langdon: the plan for IoT is a monthly release, so basically take two week atomic ans stretch it a bit 16:22:27 <langdon> ahh i see 16:22:47 <pbrobinson> langdon: go watch the Fedora Council presentation I gave and it answers all your questions ;-) 16:23:30 <mattdm> heh 16:23:35 <langdon> i was there :/ 16:23:41 <langdon> but.. memory :/ 16:23:50 <pbrobinson> langdon: more coffee? :-P 16:23:57 <langdon> probably 16:24:14 <mattdm> Okay, so, any more questions for Peter? He and I will figure out this call-for-coordinator idea. 16:25:00 * x3mboy wait for the WG to be part of it :-D 16:26:23 <mattdm> x3mboy: cool. :) 16:26:32 <mattdm> okay, let's move to RH Summit topic 16:26:37 <mattdm> #topic Red Hat Summit 16:26:56 <mattdm> This is may 8-10 in San Francisco this year 16:27:07 <mattdm> as usual, this is a very corporate event 16:27:39 <mattdm> So, we kind of focus on the fedora-redhat relationship more than anything -- different than other events 16:27:58 <langdon> could someone please fix the conflict with microsoft build and google io? 16:28:03 <mattdm> Who all from the council will be there? 16:28:09 <langdon> o/ 16:28:12 <mattdm> langdon: you going to one of those instead? :) 16:28:13 * bexelbie will be there 16:28:27 <langdon> im giving a lab at summit.. so no :( 16:28:27 * dgilmore will not be at summit 16:28:41 <mattdm> Laura Abbott will be helping at the booth too 16:28:53 <mattdm> And Adam Miller is helping with the BoF 16:29:02 <mattdm> Langdon, you're helpign with the BoF too. 16:29:13 <mattdm> I'm going to schedule something RSN to talk about that. 16:29:40 <mattdm> The booth is going to be shared with CentOS, and we'll have some focus on how the projects are collaborating 16:29:49 <langdon> mattdm: ohh.. do you have a time/day? i need to be sure it is on my calendar 16:29:51 * pbrobinson will not be there 16:30:01 <mattdm> as has been for the past few years, we'll be the "tentpole" of the community central area 16:30:05 <langdon> i can do some booth duty.. but it will probably need to be scheduled 16:30:07 <mattdm> along with other rh-sponsored projects 16:30:17 <mattdm> our new family members from coreos will be there too 16:30:43 <mattdm> #link https://agenda.summit.redhat.com/SessionDetail.aspx?id=154350 16:30:54 <mattdm> #info Wednesday, May 9 4:30 PM - 5:15 PM 16:31:36 <langdon> mattdm: is that the bof? 16:31:47 <mattdm> #info 16:31:49 <mattdm> Fedora friends: BoF with "lean coffee" 16:31:52 * jwb will not be there 16:31:52 <Southern_Gentlem> ??? mattdm so would you like a Fedora Tablecloth and banner for the Summit booth? 16:31:53 <mattdm> #info Fedora friends: BoF with "lean coffee" 16:32:15 <bexelbie> Southern_Gentlem, we have booth signage already done provided by RH but thank you for the offer 16:32:30 <bexelbie> The print everything for all booths 16:32:35 <bexelbie> they 16:32:43 <mattdm> yeah it's all done to fit in with the Red Hat theme. Like I said, very corporate-driven event 16:33:37 <mattdm> Southern_Gentlem: will you happen to be there? 16:34:19 <langdon> weill we have the council meeting on the 9th? 16:34:31 <mattdm> oh yeah. probably not 16:34:51 * langdon notes he doesn't even have conflict for the bof! 16:34:53 <mattdm> although we could make that open floor if jwb or dgilmore wants to run it :) 16:35:11 <mattdm> langdon: good :) 16:35:35 <mattdm> Okay, so, I think that's that. 16:35:40 <mattdm> #topic FY19 Budget 16:35:46 <langdon> #undo 16:35:46 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7feb83a5b190> 16:35:50 * dgilmore is only partially paying attention 16:35:57 <langdon> do we have any specific fedora goals for summit? 16:36:01 <mattdm> ah. 16:36:12 <langdon> we will be doing ux feedback on modularity.. which is coold 16:36:16 <langdon> and modularity demos.. 16:36:33 <langdon> we can move on if this is a think about question 16:36:38 <mattdm> Several things... 16:36:46 <mattdm> Yeah, we should definitely show off modularity 16:36:54 <mattdm> I'd like to push the IoT thing if it's ready 16:37:11 <mattdm> And as mentioned, showing CentOS and Fedora as friends is important 16:37:30 <langdon> and coreos 16:37:40 <mattdm> yeah althuogh that is largely tbd 16:37:48 <mattdm> friends though, for sure :) 16:37:58 <bexelbie> We are hitting the Friends F hard :D 16:38:02 <langdon> didnt you say the would be in the booth? or did i misread that 16:38:14 <mattdm> And also, we will have the hot-off-the-presses F28 release, of course 16:38:23 <mattdm> There is a CoreOS booth in Community Central really near by 16:38:37 <mattdm> That is next to the OpenShift booth as I understand it 16:38:42 <bexelbie> yep 16:38:43 * langdon looked at scrollback.. i think you just said centos.. and i misread 16:38:45 <bexelbie> and the kube/atomic booth 16:38:54 <bexelbie> fedora and centos are collocated 16:39:05 <langdon> im excited that bexelbie will be bring f28 dvds 16:39:11 <langdon> *bringing 16:39:18 <langdon> too soon? ;) 16:39:23 <mattdm> :) 16:39:36 <mattdm> I think that's *definitely* the signal for next topic :) 16:39:38 <bexelbie> I was still bring Zip drives 16:39:40 <bexelbie> more reusable 16:39:49 <mattdm> #topic FY19 Budget 16:39:58 <mattdm> bexelbie, now it's time to answer jwb's question :) 16:40:16 <bexelbie> you need to do that :D 16:40:25 <bexelbie> you set up the close it in this meeting, iirc 16:40:26 <bexelbie> :D 16:41:16 <mattdm> ah. so, yeah. so, no -1s, and I think unanimous +1s even, so that's good to go 16:41:21 <mattdm> anything else need be said? 16:41:25 <nb> I think I +1'ed it 16:41:32 <nb> although I thought mindshare was not allocating budget per region 16:41:35 <bexelbie> I think Amita had her question answereed 16:41:45 <nb> but the ticket mentioned allocating the mindshare budget per region 16:41:48 <Amita> hello 16:41:49 <mattdm> nb: you did, yeah. 16:41:55 <mattdm> hi Amita! 16:42:00 <Amita> hello mattdm 16:42:08 <Amita> and everyone 16:42:12 <Amita> .hello amsharma 16:42:13 <zodbot> Amita: amsharma 'Amita Sharma' <amsharma@redhat.com> 16:42:14 <mattdm> Amita, was your budget question in that ticket answered? 16:42:19 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/200 16:42:22 <bexelbie> nb, regional allocations are in place for now while Ambassadors is reorganized 16:42:28 <bexelbie> but restricted spend 16:42:36 <Amita> yes 16:42:39 <Amita> it is 16:42:43 <mattdm> ok cool 16:42:45 <Amita> thanks bexelbie 16:43:03 <nb> oh ok 16:43:17 <langdon> and the budget is restricted because there is no budget yet, right? 16:43:24 <mattdm> bexelbie: now that the budget is final from rh, what does restricted mean? 16:43:33 <langdon> ohh.. thats news 16:43:46 <mattdm> langdon: comment in the ticket 6 hours ago 16:43:49 <mattdm> sixxxx houuurrs. 16:43:59 * langdon is soooooooo behind 16:44:04 <langdon> :) 16:44:07 <bexelbie> mattdm, that is a good point 16:44:41 <bexelbie> I had read it as "we won't overspend until we know what we are doing" - I had always assume regions were restricted to a quarterly budget amount because of reorg 16:44:48 <bexelbie> I now see I never actually wrote that 16:44:53 <bexelbie> but it was in my mind :D 16:45:24 <bexelbie> I'm honestly not sure we need to put a restriction formally in place 16:46:03 <bexelbie> opinons? 16:46:29 <mattdm> So, what does "while Ambassadors is reorganized" mean? Is there a specific timeframe for that, or is that in general? 16:47:52 <bexelbie> the current reorg shifts the budgets to Mindshare 16:47:57 <bexelbie> that is how I interpret the phrase 16:48:08 <bexelbie> it just isn't complete, but there is an active conversation which we invite comments on 16:48:23 <bexelbie> Mindshare is going to start working ont he mechanics based on feedback next week 16:48:30 <bexelbie> so far responses have been positive 16:49:05 <mattdm> So should we just strike the regional allocation from the council view? 16:49:55 <Amita> and how regions should request budget from mindshare - by opening tickets? 16:50:01 <bexelbie> doing that means that we have to figure out how events get tickets right now 16:50:17 <bexelbie> where as leaving it until the change occurs lets us do that in the next couple of weeks 16:50:25 <bexelbie> s/tickets/funding/ 16:50:42 <mattdm> okay, let's just note that then 16:50:44 <nb> Amita, currently the regions can spend 1/4 of their yearly allocation from last year 16:51:00 <nb> Amita, the ambassador proposal would have regions not in charge of allocating budget anymore 16:51:04 <bexelbie> should we just move the allocations like this 16:51:11 <Amita> ok 16:51:11 <nb> people would come up with plan for event, then ask mindshare for funding 16:51:11 <bexelbie> put 3/4 into mindshare and the 1/4 into the regions? 16:51:31 <bexelbie> and when the regions are reorged to use mindshare for admin we move any balances? 16:51:32 <Amita> why not 2/4 and 2/4 16:51:41 <Amita> then if this model looks promising 16:51:48 <bexelbie> Amita, because it is a quarter of the year 16:51:50 <Amita> then we can move to 3/4 and 1/4 16:52:03 <bexelbie> this is not supposed to result in a parallel system 16:52:14 <bexelbie> this is a complete reorg of ambassadors as the email said 16:52:17 <Amita> ok 16:52:56 <bexelbie> does anyone have a preference? 16:52:58 <nb> Amita, the plan is that mindshare will have the new structure in place starting Q2 16:53:13 <Amita> ok 16:53:40 <mattdm> I'm +1 to 3/4 1/4 16:53:47 <Amita> +1 16:53:53 <nb> bexelbie, I think allocate it as 1/4 regions 3/4 mindshare with the caveat that we will clawback whatever is not spent when the new structure is effective 16:53:59 <nb> which i think the plan is Q2 16:54:18 <nb> clawback == reallocate to mindshare 16:54:49 <bexelbie> works for me :) 16:55:56 <mattdm> okay, let's quick let x3mboy get his docs question in. bexelbie can you close out the budget ticket with these notes? 16:56:49 <bexelbie> yes 16:56:50 <mattdm> #topic Council Docs question 16:56:56 <mattdm> okay x3mboy go :) 16:57:24 <x3mboy> Ok, right now, the current flow for working with the Council-docs says: "Note that since this is official Fedora Council documentation, some changes may need agreement from the Council as a whole first. (For these, file a Council ticket)." 16:57:45 <x3mboy> But there is now guidelines about what kind of documents needs this Council ticket 16:58:04 <nb> well, right now the only people who can commit are fedora-council 16:58:19 <mattdm> I think it's "when changing a policy", pretty much 16:58:28 <x3mboy> e.g. I have a PR about the Collaboration document (it's waiting for mattdm ;)) but I don't know if I should open a ticket for that document 16:58:46 <mattdm> I'll expand the guideline to make that the responsibility of the council member reviewing the PR 16:59:05 <x3mboy> My common sense says: No, you're not talking about the Project Structure or anything related to the Objectives or anything 16:59:25 <mattdm> Yeah. Mine too :) 16:59:36 <x3mboy> So the questions is: How to know when a council-doc needs the Council review? 17:00:07 <bexelbie> in this case, I want mattdm to read that document :D so I requested the review 17:00:10 <bexelbie> iirc 17:00:24 <mattdm> I need to go, because the hour is up, but I'll change the readme to say what I think 17:00:25 <x3mboy> And other question is (this one doesn't come from me, but now I'm here so): When council-docs are reviewed to be published? 17:00:47 <mattdm> you mean, how long to prs sit there? 17:01:31 <x3mboy> I supose, like I said, I didn't ask this, I read it somewhere (I asume in #fedora-docs) 17:01:39 <bexelbie> once the PR merges, I publish asap 17:03:56 <x3mboy> Ok, I'm good with all this 17:03:59 <x3mboy> :D 17:04:04 <mattdm> okay cool. bye everyone! 17:04:06 <mattdm> Thanks! 17:04:08 <mattdm> #endmeeting