16:00:21 <mattdm> #startmeeting Council (2018-04-25)
16:00:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 25 16:00:21 2018 UTC.  The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2018-04-25)'
16:00:22 <mattdm> #meetingname council
16:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
16:00:24 <mattdm> #chair mattdm jkurik jwb langdon robyduck bexelbie dperpeet Amita nb dgilmore pbrobinson
16:00:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: Amita bexelbie dgilmore dperpeet jkurik jwb langdon mattdm nb pbrobinson robyduck
16:00:38 <mattdm> good $TIMEOFDAY, everyone!
16:01:41 * pbrobinson waves to everyone
16:02:19 <mattdm> anyone else around?
16:02:22 <langdon> .hello2
16:02:25 <zodbot> langdon: langdon 'Langdon White' <langdon@redhat.com>
16:02:27 <mattdm> okay that's one :)
16:02:30 <mattdm> I mean, two.
16:02:38 * x3mlinux is lurking
16:02:39 <langdon> I'm here.. on mobile for ten m though
16:02:39 <mattdm> well, three, if you count me.
16:02:43 <bexelbie> .hello bex
16:02:44 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bexelbie@redhat.com>
16:02:45 <bexelbie> brb
16:02:52 <mattdm> heh.
16:02:56 <langdon> mattdm we don't ;)
16:03:05 <mattdm> *sigh*
16:03:24 <dgilmore> mattdm: I am kinda here, doing double meeting duty
16:03:46 <mattdm> okay :)
16:03:55 <mattdm> let's wait for bex to get back and then get started
16:05:02 <bexelbie> back
16:05:06 <mattdm> okay :)
16:05:09 <mattdm> #topic Agenda
16:05:31 <mattdm> This is our monthly open floor meeting, where we generally don't prepare in advance and can talk about anything :)
16:05:49 <mattdm> Generally, we collect topics now and then I arrange them into a rough agenda
16:06:06 <mattdm> this week, since last week didn't work, the first thing is pbrobinson presenting on the state of the iot objective
16:06:20 <mattdm> the other thing I have is RH Summit
16:06:30 <mattdm> what other topics should we cover?
16:06:46 <bexelbie> it'd be nice to settle the budget ticket, but it can wait
16:06:50 <bexelbie> so make that last
16:06:55 <jwb> what isn't settled?
16:07:26 * x3mboy is still lurking but now from PC
16:07:30 <mattdm> oh hi josh :)
16:07:47 <mattdm> let's find out the answer to that quesrtion when we get there
16:07:51 <mattdm> any other topics?
16:08:03 <x3mboy> !
16:08:43 <bexelbie> answer to what question?
16:08:51 <mattdm> x3mboy: yes?
16:08:57 <mattdm> bexelbie: the "what isn't settled" question
16:09:05 <x3mboy> I have a question regarding the Council-docs
16:09:19 <mattdm> okay. I'll add that in. SO:
16:09:22 <mattdm> #info Agenda
16:09:28 <x3mboy> I have a PR that isn't checked yet
16:09:29 <mattdm> #info 1. IoT Objective Update
16:09:37 <mattdm> #info 2. RH Summit stuff
16:09:44 <mattdm> #info 3. Council Docs
16:09:51 <mattdm> #info 4. FY19 budget
16:10:05 <mattdm> and that'll probably take the next 50 minutes, so there we go :)
16:10:11 <mattdm> #topic IoT Objective Update
16:10:14 <mattdm> hi pbrobinson!
16:10:31 * pbrobinson o/
16:10:41 <pbrobinson> so IoT is moving forward slowly
16:11:08 <pbrobinson> hoping to get the first compose out in the next few days once people stop bothering me about that other release
16:11:39 <mattdm> that other release?
16:11:44 <pbrobinson> F28
16:11:47 <mattdm> oh that :)
16:12:07 <mattdm> How are things going in setting up a working group?
16:12:08 <pbrobinson> once the compose process is in place I'm going to switch to setting up the Working Group
16:12:11 <langdon> the f28 one? ;)
16:12:25 * langdon lags
16:12:53 <pbrobinson> if there's any docs on the requirements of a WG anywhere (I've yet to search the wiki or anything useful)
16:13:13 <pbrobinson> basically the 3 short term things on my list are:
16:13:26 <pbrobinson> 1) a nightly compose so people can start to kick tyres
16:13:26 <langdon> we just cloned one of the others for modularity
16:13:27 <mattdm> The basic requirement is: have a charter, and have regular meetings
16:13:38 <mattdm> and probably a ticket queue, because experience shows that that helps drive things.
16:13:39 <pbrobinson> 2) WG process and docs
16:13:48 <pbrobinson> 3) schedule a regular meeting
16:13:49 <mattdm> I can help with that.
16:13:57 <mattdm> with 2. not with 3. :)
16:14:01 <bexelbie> mattdm, write it up for the policies docs :D
16:14:06 <pbrobinson> mattdm: I have the beginning of a ticket queue in pagure
16:14:11 <mattdm> bexelbie: yeah, yeah, yeah. :)
16:14:13 <nb> I am here
16:14:16 <nb> sorry, work meeting ran long
16:14:21 <mattdm> hi nb! topic is IoT
16:14:24 <pbrobinson> https://pagure.io/iot
16:14:41 <mattdm> pbrobinson: I was thinkign about putting out a call for a volunteer IoT WG cooordinator
16:15:00 <mattdm> Someone to help with the logistics and meetings and stuff -- not necessarily a technical role
16:15:15 <mattdm> might be a good way for someone on the edges of the project to get involved
16:15:29 <mattdm> and by "I was thinking about..." I mean "Shower idea this morning"
16:15:36 <pbrobinson> mattdm: that works for me, I'll sync with you OOB to co-ordinate that
16:15:59 <mattdm> cool.
16:16:18 <mattdm> are there things (other than shipping f28) that are blockign the nightly compose?
16:16:43 <pbrobinson> just my time basically, I have all the infra bits in place
16:16:58 * mattdm nods
16:17:11 <pbrobinson> I was hoping to work on it earlier this week as I wasn't expecting to be thumped so hard with F28 stuff this week
16:17:18 <mattdm> Since your time is a limited and precious commodity, we definitely need to figure out how to scale up the community
16:17:20 <pbrobinson> so plan is tomorrow/friday
16:17:44 <pbrobinson> yes, I have plans and thoughts about the scaling side of things
16:18:00 <pbrobinson> but that starts with me getting a compose running so people can start to get involved
16:18:36 <mattdm> Yeah, I can see that.
16:18:37 <bexelbie> let me know how I can help with the scaling part as well
16:19:05 <pbrobinson> yup
16:20:00 <mattdm> Okay, so, that seems like a reasonable near-term approach.
16:20:13 <mattdm> And, actually, kind of bleeds into the RH Summit thing
16:20:17 <jwb> is there a set of devices you're going to target to start with?
16:20:40 <pbrobinson> yes, that's my general thoughts, get a compose happening by the end of the month and have nightly builds
16:20:45 <mattdm> Do we have anything people should show off / talk about at the fedora booth?
16:20:55 <pbrobinson> then look at how we start to do "four week IoT"
16:21:08 <pbrobinson> not really
16:21:30 <pbrobinson> I can probably provide a bunch of talking points
16:21:34 <langdon> what is 4 wk iot?
16:22:04 <mattdm> talking points would be super-helpful.
16:22:12 <mattdm> if you can add that to the todo-list I'd be grateful
16:22:14 <pbrobinson> langdon: the plan for IoT is a monthly release, so basically take two week atomic ans stretch it a bit
16:22:27 <langdon> ahh i see
16:22:47 <pbrobinson> langdon: go watch the Fedora Council presentation I gave and it answers all your questions ;-)
16:23:30 <mattdm> heh
16:23:35 <langdon> i was there :/
16:23:41 <langdon> but.. memory :/
16:23:50 <pbrobinson> langdon: more coffee? :-P
16:23:57 <langdon> probably
16:24:14 <mattdm> Okay, so, any more questions for Peter? He and I will figure out this call-for-coordinator idea.
16:25:00 * x3mboy wait for the WG to be part of it :-D
16:26:23 <mattdm> x3mboy: cool. :)
16:26:32 <mattdm> okay, let's move to RH Summit topic
16:26:37 <mattdm> #topic Red Hat Summit
16:26:56 <mattdm> This is may 8-10 in San Francisco this year
16:27:07 <mattdm> as usual, this is a very corporate event
16:27:39 <mattdm> So, we kind of focus on the fedora-redhat relationship more than anything -- different than other events
16:27:58 <langdon> could someone please fix the conflict with microsoft build and google io?
16:28:03 <mattdm> Who all from the council will be there?
16:28:09 <langdon> o/
16:28:12 <mattdm> langdon: you going to one of those instead? :)
16:28:13 * bexelbie will be there
16:28:27 <langdon> im giving a lab at summit.. so no :(
16:28:27 * dgilmore will not be at summit
16:28:41 <mattdm> Laura Abbott will be helping at the booth too
16:28:53 <mattdm> And Adam Miller is helping with the BoF
16:29:02 <mattdm> Langdon, you're helpign with the BoF too.
16:29:13 <mattdm> I'm going to schedule something RSN to talk about that.
16:29:40 <mattdm> The booth is going to be shared with CentOS, and we'll have some focus on how the projects are collaborating
16:29:49 <langdon> mattdm: ohh.. do you have a time/day? i need to be sure it is on my calendar
16:29:51 * pbrobinson will not be there
16:30:01 <mattdm> as has been for the past few years, we'll be the "tentpole" of the community central area
16:30:05 <langdon> i can do some booth duty.. but it will probably need to be scheduled
16:30:07 <mattdm> along with other rh-sponsored projects
16:30:17 <mattdm> our new family members from coreos will be there too
16:30:43 <mattdm> #link https://agenda.summit.redhat.com/SessionDetail.aspx?id=154350
16:30:54 <mattdm> #info Wednesday, May 9 4:30 PM - 5:15 PM
16:31:36 <langdon> mattdm: is that the bof?
16:31:47 <mattdm> #info
16:31:49 <mattdm> Fedora friends: BoF with "lean coffee"
16:31:52 * jwb will not be there
16:31:52 <Southern_Gentlem> ??? mattdm  so would you like a Fedora Tablecloth and banner for the Summit booth?
16:31:53 <mattdm> #info Fedora friends: BoF with "lean coffee"
16:32:15 <bexelbie> Southern_Gentlem, we have booth signage already done provided by RH but thank you for the offer
16:32:30 <bexelbie> The print everything for all booths
16:32:35 <bexelbie> they
16:32:43 <mattdm> yeah it's all done to fit in with the Red Hat theme. Like I said, very corporate-driven event
16:33:37 <mattdm> Southern_Gentlem: will you happen to be there?
16:34:19 <langdon> weill we have the council meeting on the 9th?
16:34:31 <mattdm> oh yeah. probably not
16:34:51 * langdon notes he doesn't even have conflict for the bof!
16:34:53 <mattdm> although we could make that open floor if jwb or dgilmore wants to run it :)
16:35:11 <mattdm> langdon: good :)
16:35:35 <mattdm> Okay, so, I think that's that.
16:35:40 <mattdm> #topic FY19 Budget
16:35:46 <langdon> #undo
16:35:46 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7feb83a5b190>
16:35:50 * dgilmore is only partially paying attention
16:35:57 <langdon> do we have any specific fedora goals for summit?
16:36:01 <mattdm> ah.
16:36:12 <langdon> we will be doing ux feedback on modularity.. which is coold
16:36:16 <langdon> and modularity demos..
16:36:33 <langdon> we can move on if this is a think about question
16:36:38 <mattdm> Several things...
16:36:46 <mattdm> Yeah, we should definitely show off modularity
16:36:54 <mattdm> I'd like to push the IoT thing if it's ready
16:37:11 <mattdm> And as mentioned, showing CentOS and Fedora as friends is important
16:37:30 <langdon> and coreos
16:37:40 <mattdm> yeah althuogh that is largely tbd
16:37:48 <mattdm> friends though, for sure :)
16:37:58 <bexelbie> We are hitting the Friends F hard :D
16:38:02 <langdon> didnt you say the would be in the booth? or did i misread that
16:38:14 <mattdm> And also, we will have the hot-off-the-presses F28 release, of course
16:38:23 <mattdm> There is a CoreOS booth in Community Central really near by
16:38:37 <mattdm> That is next to the OpenShift booth as I understand it
16:38:42 <bexelbie> yep
16:38:43 * langdon looked at scrollback.. i think you just said centos.. and i misread
16:38:45 <bexelbie> and the kube/atomic booth
16:38:54 <bexelbie> fedora and centos are collocated
16:39:05 <langdon> im excited that bexelbie will be bring f28 dvds
16:39:11 <langdon> *bringing
16:39:18 <langdon> too soon? ;)
16:39:23 <mattdm> :)
16:39:36 <mattdm> I think that's *definitely* the signal for next topic :)
16:39:38 <bexelbie> I was still bring Zip drives
16:39:40 <bexelbie> more reusable
16:39:49 <mattdm> #topic FY19 Budget
16:39:58 <mattdm> bexelbie, now it's time to answer jwb's question :)
16:40:16 <bexelbie> you need to do that :D
16:40:25 <bexelbie> you set up the close it in this meeting, iirc
16:40:26 <bexelbie> :D
16:41:16 <mattdm> ah. so, yeah. so, no -1s, and I think unanimous +1s even, so that's good to go
16:41:21 <mattdm> anything else need be said?
16:41:25 <nb> I think I +1'ed it
16:41:32 <nb> although I thought mindshare was not allocating budget per region
16:41:35 <bexelbie> I think Amita had her question answereed
16:41:45 <nb> but the ticket mentioned allocating the mindshare budget per region
16:41:48 <Amita> hello
16:41:49 <mattdm> nb: you did, yeah.
16:41:55 <mattdm> hi Amita!
16:42:00 <Amita> hello mattdm
16:42:08 <Amita> and everyone
16:42:12 <Amita> .hello amsharma
16:42:13 <zodbot> Amita: amsharma 'Amita Sharma' <amsharma@redhat.com>
16:42:14 <mattdm> Amita, was your budget question in that ticket answered?
16:42:19 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/200
16:42:22 <bexelbie> nb, regional allocations are in place for now while Ambassadors is reorganized
16:42:28 <bexelbie> but restricted spend
16:42:36 <Amita> yes
16:42:39 <Amita> it is
16:42:43 <mattdm> ok cool
16:42:45 <Amita> thanks bexelbie
16:43:03 <nb> oh ok
16:43:17 <langdon> and the budget is restricted because there is no budget yet, right?
16:43:24 <mattdm> bexelbie: now that the budget is final from rh, what does restricted mean?
16:43:33 <langdon> ohh.. thats news
16:43:46 <mattdm> langdon: comment in the ticket 6 hours ago
16:43:49 <mattdm> sixxxx houuurrs.
16:43:59 * langdon is soooooooo behind
16:44:04 <langdon> :)
16:44:07 <bexelbie> mattdm, that is a good point
16:44:41 <bexelbie> I had read it as "we won't overspend until we know what we are doing" - I had always assume regions were restricted to a quarterly budget amount because of reorg
16:44:48 <bexelbie> I now see I never actually wrote that
16:44:53 <bexelbie> but it was in my mind :D
16:45:24 <bexelbie> I'm honestly not sure we need to put a restriction formally in place
16:46:03 <bexelbie> opinons?
16:46:29 <mattdm> So, what does "while Ambassadors is reorganized" mean? Is there a specific timeframe for that, or is that in general?
16:47:52 <bexelbie> the current reorg shifts the budgets to Mindshare
16:47:57 <bexelbie> that is how I interpret the phrase
16:48:08 <bexelbie> it just isn't complete, but there is an active conversation which we invite comments on
16:48:23 <bexelbie> Mindshare is going to start working ont he mechanics based on feedback next week
16:48:30 <bexelbie> so far responses have been positive
16:49:05 <mattdm> So should we just strike the regional allocation from the council view?
16:49:55 <Amita> and how regions should request budget from mindshare - by opening tickets?
16:50:01 <bexelbie> doing that means that we have to figure out how events get tickets right now
16:50:17 <bexelbie> where as leaving it until the change occurs lets us do that in the next couple of weeks
16:50:25 <bexelbie> s/tickets/funding/
16:50:42 <mattdm> okay, let's just note that then
16:50:44 <nb> Amita, currently the regions can spend 1/4 of their yearly allocation from last year
16:51:00 <nb> Amita, the ambassador proposal would have regions not in charge of allocating budget anymore
16:51:04 <bexelbie> should we just move the allocations like this
16:51:11 <Amita> ok
16:51:11 <nb> people would come up with plan for event, then ask mindshare for funding
16:51:11 <bexelbie> put 3/4 into mindshare and the 1/4 into the regions?
16:51:31 <bexelbie> and when the regions are reorged to use mindshare for admin we move any balances?
16:51:32 <Amita> why not 2/4 and 2/4
16:51:41 <Amita> then if this model looks promising
16:51:48 <bexelbie> Amita, because it is a quarter of the year
16:51:50 <Amita> then we can move to 3/4 and 1/4
16:52:03 <bexelbie> this is not supposed to result in a parallel system
16:52:14 <bexelbie> this is a complete reorg of ambassadors as the email said
16:52:17 <Amita> ok
16:52:56 <bexelbie> does anyone have a preference?
16:52:58 <nb> Amita, the plan is that mindshare will have the new structure in place starting Q2
16:53:13 <Amita> ok
16:53:40 <mattdm> I'm +1 to 3/4 1/4
16:53:47 <Amita> +1
16:53:53 <nb> bexelbie, I think allocate it as 1/4 regions 3/4 mindshare with the caveat that we will clawback whatever is not spent when the new structure is effective
16:53:59 <nb> which i think the plan is Q2
16:54:18 <nb> clawback == reallocate to mindshare
16:54:49 <bexelbie> works for me :)
16:55:56 <mattdm> okay, let's quick let x3mboy get his docs question in. bexelbie can you close out the budget ticket with these notes?
16:56:49 <bexelbie> yes
16:56:50 <mattdm> #topic Council Docs question
16:56:56 <mattdm> okay x3mboy go :)
16:57:24 <x3mboy> Ok, right now, the current flow for working with the Council-docs says: "Note that since this is official Fedora Council documentation, some changes may need agreement from the Council as a whole first. (For these, file a Council ticket)."
16:57:45 <x3mboy> But there is now guidelines about what kind of documents needs this Council ticket
16:58:04 <nb> well, right now the only people who can commit are fedora-council
16:58:19 <mattdm> I think it's "when changing a policy", pretty much
16:58:28 <x3mboy> e.g. I have a PR about the Collaboration document (it's waiting for mattdm ;)) but I don't know if I should open a ticket for that document
16:58:46 <mattdm> I'll expand the guideline to make that the responsibility of the council member reviewing the PR
16:59:05 <x3mboy> My common sense says: No, you're not talking about the Project Structure or anything related to the Objectives or anything
16:59:25 <mattdm> Yeah. Mine too :)
16:59:36 <x3mboy> So the questions is: How to know when a council-doc needs the Council review?
17:00:07 <bexelbie> in this case, I want mattdm to read that document :D so I requested the review
17:00:10 <bexelbie> iirc
17:00:24 <mattdm> I need to go, because the hour is up, but I'll change the readme to say what I think
17:00:25 <x3mboy> And other question is (this one doesn't come from me, but now I'm here so): When council-docs are reviewed to be published?
17:00:47 <mattdm> you mean, how long to prs sit there?
17:01:31 <x3mboy> I supose, like I said, I didn't ask this, I read it somewhere (I asume in #fedora-docs)
17:01:39 <bexelbie> once the PR merges, I publish asap
17:03:56 <x3mboy> Ok, I'm good with all this
17:03:59 <x3mboy> :D
17:04:04 <mattdm> okay cool. bye everyone!
17:04:06 <mattdm> Thanks!
17:04:08 <mattdm> #endmeeting