15:01:33 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:01:33 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 24 15:01:33 2018 UTC.
15:01:33 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:33 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:33 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:33 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
15:01:37 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:01:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:01:41 <adamw> #topic Roll call
15:01:50 <adamw> morning folks! who's around for blocker funtimes?
15:01:52 <adamw> er
15:01:53 <adamw> qa funtimes
15:01:57 <adamw> blocker funtimes coming soon
15:02:14 * coremodule is here! How are you adamw?
15:02:33 <adamw> will be better after i've drunk this coffee
15:05:19 <coremodule> Are people F29 Beta QA'ed out?
15:06:31 <Southern_Gentlem> coremodule, basicly
15:07:28 <adamw> kparal says brno is out today
15:07:31 <adamw> holiday i guess
15:07:54 <Southern_Gentlem> coremodule, if they are true gluttens for punishment the Respins Sig has isos to test
15:08:45 <coremodule> Southern_Gentlem, ;P bring out the iron maiden.
15:09:38 <Southern_Gentlem> closest thing i have is a BattleAxe
15:09:52 <adamw> i guess if no-one else shows up, we can postpone? the main things on the agenda are kinda pointless if no-one's here :P
15:10:01 * sumantro is here
15:10:04 <Southern_Gentlem> kill it
15:10:09 * bcotton is here, but only as a fly on the wall
15:10:19 <sumantro> hey adamw Southern_Gentlem coremodule :)
15:10:33 <coremodule> hey sumantro!
15:11:36 <adamw> hi sumantro
15:11:41 <adamw> we're a bit short on numbers
15:13:12 <adamw> Southern_Gentlem: where are the new respins? seems openqa didn't test them...
15:13:15 <cmurf> still on roll call?
15:13:24 <adamw> cmurf: we were sorta waiting around for folks to show up
15:13:33 * cmurf is easily amused
15:13:52 <adamw> hmm, there's a few of us now, guess we could go through the agenda quickly
15:14:00 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:14:40 <adamw> #info no action items from previous meeting
15:14:42 <adamw> that was easy!
15:14:51 <adamw> #topic Fedora 29 status
15:14:58 <adamw> #info Beta was signed off and is shipping tomorrow
15:15:16 <adamw> #info folks have run into a variety of niggles with it, but nothing really bad was discovered late, happily
15:15:25 <cmurf> any zero day updates?
15:15:39 <adamw> oh, there'll be a ton
15:15:43 <adamw> i've submitted like three myself
15:16:06 <cmurf> i mean the urgent blockery kind
15:16:11 <adamw> nah
15:16:14 <cmurf> ahh ok
15:16:22 * jlanda is around
15:16:23 <adamw> not that i know of anyway
15:16:31 <cmurf> i thought we had one
15:16:41 <adamw> it'd be nice to get https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2018-7c9e62ae82 tested, i guess
15:16:53 <adamw> cmurf: hum, i don't think i can think of one - do you remember what it was in?
15:17:46 <cmurf> i'm having slow internet so i'll think or find it in 10 mintues
15:17:54 <adamw> rgr
15:18:15 <cmurf> OH I KNOW
15:18:16 <adamw> #info Common Bugs needs creating and writing, i'll do that today
15:18:23 <cmurf> it was previous release blocker
15:18:31 <cmurf> nevermind
15:18:37 <cmurf> doesn't apply until final
15:18:44 <adamw> ah, right, yeah
15:19:49 <cmurf> it's the gnome software bug for F27 to offer direct upgrade to F29
15:20:15 <Southern_Gentlem> why is that a bug
15:20:31 <cmurf> release criterion requires direct upgrades
15:20:41 <adamw> yeah, that's what we decided on.
15:20:58 <adamw> #info Final freeze starts 2018-10-09
15:21:06 <cmurf> that'll be here fast
15:21:15 <adamw> #info Final go/no-go is scheduled for 2018-10-18
15:21:20 <adamw> 9 days of freeze? excellent.
15:21:23 <cmurf> wow
15:21:36 <jlanda> fast running release
15:23:45 <Southern_Gentlem> do it quick before someone screws everything up
15:23:50 <cmurf> haha
15:24:48 <adamw> heh
15:25:01 <adamw> anything else on 29 status? anyone worried about anything for beta?
15:25:43 <cmurf> well the dnf stuff does still seem potentially confusing
15:25:54 <cmurf> between modularity stuff even when --best is used
15:26:15 <cmurf> but as far as blow ups not worried
15:27:13 <jlanda> silverblue/coreos will be ready for f29?
15:27:46 <coremodule> jlanda, not coreos, but silverblue yes.
15:27:49 <sumantro> cmurf, there's a dnf test day coming up on 2018-10-03. It will be shortly announced
15:28:18 <adamw> jlanda: there's a Silverblue installer image in beta, do go ahead and try it out
15:28:48 <Southern_Gentlem> is it a blocker ?
15:28:50 <cmurf> jlanda: (hint:use default partitioning)
15:28:52 <jlanda> I tried it ;) i had more doubts around coreos than silverblue :D
15:28:54 <cmurf> not release blocking
15:29:51 <adamw> the coreos stuff, yeah, that's not targeted for f29, afaik. f29 will just have an atomic host image like before.
15:30:14 <sumantro> jlanda, coreos is supposed to come somewhere after F29 and before F30 timecycle
15:30:23 <cmurf> it's still on a separate build system isn't it? I'm not seeing a fedora coreos yet...
15:30:40 <jlanda> ack
15:30:55 <adamw> i think they're still trying to weld the bits together
15:31:02 <coremodule> cmurf, yeah, it's it's own thing right now
15:31:26 <adamw> i've heard stuff about a lab in a castle on a mountain, an operating table, and a big rod on the top of the tallest tower to conduct some electricity
15:31:32 <adamw> all seems perfectly safe and according to protocol
15:31:45 <Southern_Gentlem> not a blocker for f29 then we should move on
15:31:48 <adamw> yup
15:32:17 <adamw> just ignore the shambling beast lurching this way, howling for the blood of containers
15:32:29 * adamw shuts the window
15:32:57 <adamw> #topic Proposed release criteria discussion (optical discs, printing, fwraid)
15:32:59 <cmurf> haha
15:33:18 <jlanda> uuuh, this can be a very large topic :D
15:33:32 <cmurf> yeah
15:33:36 <adamw> so, we have three release criteria proposals on the table right now - one to drop the requirements that boot from actual optical disc must work, one to block on printing, one to move the firmware raid criterion from beta to final
15:33:37 <adamw> yeah
15:33:42 <adamw> i was kinda figuring there'd be more people, too
15:33:59 <adamw> so for now, i guess we don't have enough to really definitely accept any of these, but we can still kick 'em around a bit
15:34:01 <Southern_Gentlem> well the isos will be under 4.7M so that will work for dvds
15:34:04 <adamw> anyone have any particular thoughts on them?
15:34:17 <adamw> Southern_Gentlem: there is a separate size requirement that's not going away
15:34:38 <cmurf> yeah too bad 2-layer dvds and drives have been generally available for a while but whatever
15:34:45 <Southern_Gentlem> blocking on printing nope unless someone is going to buy every printer in the list to tst
15:35:02 <jlanda> and provide ink for all of them
15:35:10 <adamw> this is about whether they are actually correctly built to boot from physical media. there's a thin but real possibility that ISOs can boot from usb stick, or when attached to a VM, but not actually work when written to a real optical disc and put in a real drive. it happened once before.
15:35:20 <adamw> Southern_Gentlem: the proposal sorta covers that, i think.
15:35:21 <cmurf> yep
15:35:37 <jlanda> I like the print to pdf thing that was talked on the mailing list, but all printers, or a bunch of them... can be more difficult to test for qa team
15:35:48 <cmurf> yeah i think no way
15:35:53 <Southern_Gentlem> i like to have the optical media as a fall back for older mahines
15:36:31 <jlanda> maybe a couple of them to try the subsystems (cups, gnome things...) but without having to test printing on any specific printer ?
15:36:36 <cmurf> Southern_Gentlem: and that won't change, just shifts burden to people who need it to work
15:37:18 <adamw> the initial printing criterion proposal was that just one printer must be found to work at Beta, and one printer each for (some list of drivers TBD) must work at Final
15:37:27 <adamw> the first seems fine, the second seems like we might run into availability issues
15:37:30 <cmurf> that sounds complicated
15:38:49 <jlanda> I like the part of testing the subsystems, depending on a specific hardware, cups drivers... not so much.
15:38:52 <adamw> i'm personally fine with both the optical disc and fwraid changes
15:39:21 <cmurf> is there concensus on fwraid? was it to drop it entirely or just move it to final?
15:40:12 <cmurf> and also it is "must work, therefore must be tested" or is it "block only if known to fail"?
15:41:03 <Southern_Gentlem> fwraid needs to disappear as far as i am concerned
15:41:29 <cmurf> sounded to me like someone at RH Brno would do the testing in the vicinity of beta, ergo it's fine for it to be a requirement and block final, but beta is too soon
15:41:41 <cmurf> (possibly post beta)
15:44:21 <adamw> the proposal was to move it to final
15:44:41 <adamw> i dunno if there's a clear consensus yet, i haven't read through the whole thread ta once
15:46:11 <cmurf> be neat if people could just go vote somewhere rather that adamw having to read the whole thread
15:47:22 <jlanda> an issue on pagure?
15:48:12 <adamw> process? that's unpossible?!
15:48:24 <adamw> realistically, for release criteria, people's opinions tend to be fuzzy
15:48:34 <adamw> i kinda like the way the process is fuzzy too, it seems like a good match
15:48:44 <adamw> which is why i never proposed anything more bureaucratic like i usually do :P
15:49:38 <cmurf> i am suggesting multiple choice voting including "I give adamw my proxy vote"
15:50:28 <Southern_Gentlem> adamw, that plain o' CRA
15:50:31 <cmurf> because i'm fuzzy also, i'd accept pretty much any consensus that simplifies and eases test burden
15:50:33 <Southern_Gentlem> adamw, that plain o' CYA
15:51:50 <adamw> hehe
15:51:58 <adamw> ok, so, i think we kicked those around enough?
15:52:18 <adamw> it's just kinda good to hear approximately where we're all at right now with the current discussion/proposals
15:52:28 <adamw> so aside from that we can keep discussing on-list(s)
15:52:58 <Southern_Gentlem> yep
15:53:06 <adamw> #info the current proposals were discussed, we don't have enough people present to form a clear decision on accepting any particular proposal, so we just talked through them for a while
15:53:52 <adamw> #topic Test Day status
15:53:54 <sumantro> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2018-09-20_Silverblue_Testday -- saw fairly good amount of testing with about 70+ testers. We have Java 8,10,11 test day coming up on 2018-09-26 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2018-09-26:java_8,_10_and_11_testday.
15:54:34 <adamw> sorry for the short time slot, sumantro :)
15:54:49 <sumantro> Followed by Cloud/Atomic on 2018-10-01 , DNF on 2018-10-03 , Gnome 3.30 2018-10-05
15:54:54 <sumantro> adamw, np :)
15:55:18 <sumantro> Upgrade Test Day on 2018-10-08
15:55:52 <sumantro> I might also pull in couple of more and update the Fedocal
15:56:03 <adamw> #info Silverblue Test Day had a good turnout with 70+ testers
15:56:29 <adamw> #info Java (09-26), Cloud/Atomic (10-01), DNF (10-03) and GNOME 3.30 (10-05) are all coming up
15:56:33 <adamw> busy schedule!
15:57:38 <sumantro> adamw true! :)
15:59:38 <adamw> #topic Open floor
15:59:41 <adamw> anything for open floor, quickly?
15:59:48 <adamw> blocker meeting starts in 1 minute over in #fedora-blocker-review
15:59:56 <adamw> #action adamw to work on better meeting time management
16:00:37 <jlanda> after f29 releasing, I have a bunch of PRs on fedora-qa repos waiting for review since june-july, I'll appreciate if someone can take a look on them ;)
16:01:08 <jlanda> I'll like to continue developing but I don't want to have 10+ PRs open, it's unmaintainable to rebase and update all of the to master
16:05:44 <adamw> jlanda: sorry about that
16:05:50 <adamw> it's definitely about beta pressure
16:05:57 <adamw> we'll try and make sure someone reviews them this week
16:06:14 <adamw> #action adamw to make sure jlanda's PRs on fedora-qa get reviewed
16:06:25 <adamw> ok, we're over time, so thanks for coming, everyone :)
16:06:31 <adamw> blocker review starting up over in #fedora-blocker-review
16:07:21 <jlanda> adamw: np, beta pressure, vacations, it's not the best time ;)
16:07:59 <adamw> #endmeeting