15:00:43 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 29 15:00:43 2019 UTC.
15:00:43 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:43 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
15:00:47 <tablepc> When they are a bit older I'll start them on SOaS
15:00:48 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:52 <adamw> #topic Roll call
15:00:56 <bcotton> .hello2
15:00:57 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
15:01:01 <adamw> morning folks, who's around for qa meeting fun?
15:01:08 <cmurf> .hello chrismurphy
15:01:09 <zodbot> cmurf: chrismurphy 'Chris Murphy' <bugzilla@colorremedies.com>
15:01:26 <tablepc> .hello2
15:01:27 <zodbot> tablepc: tablepc 'Pat Kelly' <pmkellly@frontier.com>
15:02:13 <kparal> .hello2
15:02:14 <zodbot> kparal: kparal 'Kamil Páral' <kparal@redhat.com>
15:02:47 * satellit listening (afk)
15:02:51 <coremodule> .hello2
15:02:52 <zodbot> coremodule: coremodule 'Geoffrey Marr' <gmarr@redhat.com>
15:02:57 <lruzicka> .hello2
15:02:58 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
15:02:59 <frantisekz> .hello2
15:03:01 <zodbot> frantisekz: frantisekz 'František Zatloukal' <fzatlouk@redhat.com>
15:03:46 <adamw> hope everyone had a good weekend
15:03:52 <lbrabec> .hello2
15:03:53 <zodbot> lbrabec: lbrabec 'Lukas Brabec' <lbrabec@redhat.com>
15:04:10 <tablepc> Very nice thank you.
15:04:42 <adamw> let's start with agenda item 0, the one I forgot to put in!
15:04:47 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:05:04 <adamw> #info "adamw to follow up on last minute blocker process proposal" - I did that, we have a topic for it coming up
15:05:07 <adamw> there, now we're done :)
15:05:38 <adamw> oh hey i did put it in the agenda.
15:05:43 <adamw> so i forgot that i hadn't forgotten to put it in the agenda
15:05:46 <adamw> has anyone seen my pills
15:05:52 * bcotton blinks
15:06:09 <adamw> #topic Fedora 31 status
15:06:51 <adamw> magic openQA 8-ball says "eh, it mostly works"
15:07:20 <adamw> though looking at results from today's compose, it seems gnome-initial-setup is broken, which makes it tricky to do a working Workstation live install
15:08:04 <adamw> #info mass rebuild was done last week
15:08:21 <cmurf> reminds me of Emperor Ming to Clytus: "Clytus, are your men on the right pills?"
15:08:27 <adamw> #info according to openQA composes are mostly working with a few known bugs, gnome-initial-setup appears to be broken, affecting Workstation installs
15:08:30 <cmurf> obscure scifi...
15:08:31 * handsome_pirate shows up for the first time in a minute
15:08:41 <adamw> wait how many meetings do we have per minute?
15:08:48 <handsome_pirate> 22
15:08:56 <adamw> man, this must be why we never get any work done
15:09:35 <adamw> tablepc: you still have a disappearing cursor bug, right?
15:09:55 <tablepc> yes should it be against gnome-shell
15:10:19 <adamw> it probably wouldn't be the shell...
15:10:26 <adamw> have you tried it with X11 instead of Wayland yet?
15:10:47 <tablepc> no, but I will later today
15:11:11 <tablepc> Perhaps a mutter issue?
15:11:30 <adamw> that'd be more likely, yeah
15:11:45 <adamw> mutter, clutter, somewhere down there.
15:12:19 <tablepc> well mutter is still sort of new and finding it's voice
15:13:02 <adamw> it's been around for years at this point
15:13:26 <tablepc> yea new.
15:13:29 <adamw> heh
15:13:33 <adamw> anyone have any other notes on f31?
15:13:37 <cmurf> i think mutter has become the compositor for wayland so in some sense it's new in that context
15:14:18 <adamw> cmurf: that's already been years. :P
15:15:00 <cmurf> i think it's new until there's a new product manager and then it's old
15:15:06 <cmurf> and has to be replaced ASAP
15:15:14 <adamw> GNOME Project Lifecycle
15:15:18 <cmurf> applies to all technology
15:15:18 <adamw> alrighty then, next topic
15:15:21 <adamw> #topic Process proposals: Xen / EC2 criteria, 'last minute' blockers
15:15:58 <adamw> so, current status on these: we seem to be on the path of turning the xen criterion into an ec2 criterion. i asked for ideas about what ec2 instance types we should block on, but don't think there were any suggestions yet.
15:16:16 <cmurf> is this only discussed on test@ or is it also on devel@
15:16:28 <adamw> on last minute blockers, i pinged the thread last week and tablepc kindly revised his proposed text a bit
15:16:31 <cmurf> the xen thing
15:16:44 <adamw> cmurf: the xen thing has about two dozen CCs at this point, i forget what they all are
15:16:55 <adamw> if devel@ isn't in there we can certainly pull it in
15:17:02 <cmurf> probabl a good idea
15:17:07 <adamw> so, anyone have thoughts on these?
15:17:07 * adamw brb
15:17:10 <bcotton> for the ec2 instances, c(latest).(smallest) and t(latest).(smallest) seem reasonable to me
15:22:00 <adamw> bcotton: thanks...could you throw that in the thread?
15:22:46 <bcotton> adamw: you got it, boss
15:24:11 <adamw> on the last minute blocker thing...i think the definition proposed in tablepc's latest is too wide
15:24:29 <bcotton> agreed
15:24:29 <adamw> "A Last Minute Blocker Bug occurs when a bug is nominated as a blocker bug seven (7) days or less before a scheduled freeze for either a Beta or Final release" - 7 days before the freeze is honestly still pretty early
15:24:58 <bcotton> i'm mostly interested in the "oh hey, i nominated this as a blocker five minutes before the meeting started" case
15:25:00 <adamw> maybe i'll try a draft today
15:25:01 <tablepc> Okay then I'll tighten it up. Are there any suggested words or phrases?
15:25:25 <bcotton> tablepc: i think it's pretty good except for the timeframe
15:25:30 <adamw> tablepc: I think i'll write a proposal based on yours but tweaked a little
15:25:50 <tablepc> Okay
15:25:59 <handsome_pirate> So, what happens if a blocker is found after a go?
15:27:04 <adamw> by policy, nothing
15:27:08 <adamw> well, the release goes ahead
15:27:14 <adamw> we document it, try and rush out a fix, etc
15:27:28 <adamw> in practice, it would be interesting to see what happened if a *really* bad one showed up
15:27:41 <adamw> it has happened once or twice, but they were only 'kinda bad' bugs, not complete disasters
15:27:59 <adamw> i suspect in practice the policy might change :P
15:28:41 <bcotton> we have the ability to throw the policy out the window if a bug is sufficiently catastrophic
15:29:21 <adamw> policy defenestration!
15:29:22 <cmurf> well there was one that was fairly close to disaster
15:29:39 <cmurf> it was the inability to boot macs bug
15:30:23 <adamw> pfeh, amcs
15:30:25 <adamw> macs
15:30:46 <handsome_pirate> Hey, AMC made good cars!
15:30:57 <adamw> =)
15:30:59 <lruzicka> Well, I do not understand .... when there is go, we usually wait a couple of days, so basically the release could still be postponed
15:31:15 <adamw> lruzicka: like i said, it's a policy, the policy is that GO is a final decision
15:31:35 <adamw> (i think the idea is that otherwise no-one would be *really* sure we're GOing till the bitflip)
15:31:47 <cmurf> but we shipped with the bug anyway, and then Common Bugs had a grub command line hint to make it go
15:31:48 <lruzicka> adamw, I would still expect an emergency break
15:32:10 <cmurf> stopping the GO was actually discussed in the macos bug case
15:32:48 <cmurf> it exposed a single point of failure :D
15:33:23 <adamw> anyhoo, we're a bit off topic...
15:33:27 <handsome_pirate> What if the bug was "EFI gets deleted on upgrade on all Lenovos"
15:33:35 <tablepc> No matter how you write the procedure there can always be a situation that you couldn't anticipate in the document; so a bit of flexibility is required.
15:33:43 <adamw> handsome_pirate: recommend no-one buy a lenovo
15:33:49 <cmurf> haha
15:33:54 <cmurf> same as macs
15:34:06 <tablepc> I own several
15:34:08 <lruzicka> adamw, cannot choose here, really :/
15:34:28 <cmurf> adamw is teasing
15:34:32 <adamw> recommend you run ubuntu
15:34:34 * bcotton recommends no one buys computers
15:34:35 <cmurf> except about macs
15:35:02 <adamw> bcotton: this is a great policy
15:35:05 <bcotton> but yeah, it sounds like we have two #actions on the proposals, so we can probably let adamw turn the page now
15:35:12 <adamw> oh hey speaking of actions
15:35:13 * cmurf recommends "power failure Sundays"
15:35:28 <adamw> #action adamw to send xen/ec2 proposal to devel@ as well if it wasn't already
15:35:41 <adamw> #action bcotton to send his ec2 instance type suggestion to the thread
15:36:06 <adamw> #action adamw to tweak the last minute blocker draft a bit
15:36:19 <adamw> so, any other thoughts on those particular proposals or shall we move on?
15:36:38 <lruzicka> on
15:36:40 <tablepc> onward
15:38:08 <adamw> alrighty then
15:38:18 <adamw> #topic Test Day / community event status
15:38:25 <adamw> sumantro: around?
15:39:08 <tablepc> 5.3 works good in 0726
15:39:44 <sumantro> adamw,  yes
15:39:58 <adamw> sumantro: cool...can you give us a summary of where we are with community events?
15:40:14 <sumantro> the test day for kernel 5.2 was great http://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/67
15:40:37 <sumantro> we are planning to have more test days scheduled in coming days
15:41:15 <sumantro> We have some talks accepted at Flock which are around Fedora QA!
15:41:45 <adamw> cool! do you have details/links?
15:42:42 <sumantro> coremodule, is presenting on Fedora QA getting started
15:43:35 <coremodule> I'm going to rehash my "Getting Started in Fedora QA" talk that I gave at DevConf, new *and* improved with the feedback that was received there!
15:43:38 <coremodule> https://pagure.io/flock/issue/215
15:43:56 <coremodule> Flock schedule hasn't been released or I'd link to that...
15:44:15 <adamw> cool
15:44:22 <sumantro> is the dashboard talk selected ?
15:44:29 <adamw> #info coremodule will present on "Getting Started in Fedora QA" at Flock - https://pagure.io/flock/issue/215
15:44:35 <sumantro> Josef around ? lruzicka any idea? :)
15:44:53 <frantisekz> https://pagure.io/flock/issue/176
15:44:56 <frantisekz> accepted too
15:45:04 <sumantro> frantisekz, thanks :D
15:45:14 <lruzicka> lruzicka, I am not having any talk at Flock
15:45:40 <sumantro> so we have two talks at Flock 2019 :)
15:45:48 <adamw> great
15:46:00 <lruzicka> sumantro ^, I could not find a topic that I would like to hear myself.
15:46:51 <adamw> #info jskladan will present on a new onboarding tool at Flock - https://pagure.io/flock/issue/176
15:46:56 <sumantro> lruzicka, my bad ..
15:47:04 <adamw> if you'll be at flock, please go along and watch the talks! if not, there will probably be video later
15:47:28 <adamw> #info 5.2 kernel test week happened last week: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2019-07-22_Kernel_5.2_Test_Week
15:47:38 <adamw> sumantro: do we have the next test day scheduled yet?
15:47:58 <sumantro> adamw not ..but I am hoping to have something planned by this week
15:48:06 <adamw> alright, cool
15:48:14 <adamw> #info more Test Days are coming, watch the list for more details
15:49:00 <adamw> #topic Open floor
15:49:03 <adamw> any other business, folks?
15:49:12 <adamw> we have the blocker review meeting in 10 minutes in #fedora-blocker-review, btw
15:49:21 <bcotton> o/
15:49:25 <tflink> nothing from me
15:49:50 <frantisekz> adamw: I have some proposal write in progress regarding testing updating system after upgrade, I'll read through it and send it to test list
15:50:10 <frantisekz> I've written that up in November and completely forgot about that
15:50:15 <adamw> haha, alright...thanks
15:55:38 <adamw> sounds like we're done here!
15:55:44 <adamw> see you in five minutes over in #fedora-blocker-review
15:55:47 <adamw> thanks for coming, folks
15:55:51 <adamw> #endmeeting