16:02:33 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
16:02:33 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan  6 16:02:33 2020 UTC.
16:02:33 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:02:33 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:02:33 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:02:33 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
16:02:39 <lruzicka> hopefully ... I was.
16:02:46 <lruzicka> .hello2
16:02:47 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
16:02:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
16:02:47 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
16:02:53 <adamw> #topic Roll call
16:02:54 <tablepc> .hello2
16:02:56 <zodbot> tablepc: tablepc 'Pat Kelly' <pmkellly@frontier.com>
16:02:58 <frantisekz> .hello2
16:02:59 <cmurf> .hello chrismurphy
16:02:59 <zodbot> frantisekz: frantisekz 'František Zatloukal' <fzatlouk@redhat.com>
16:03:01 <bcotton> .hello2
16:03:01 <zodbot> cmurf: chrismurphy 'Chris Murphy' <bugzilla@colorremedies.com>
16:03:04 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
16:03:05 <adamw> ahoy to the oy to the wiki wiki wild wild west
16:03:33 <frantisekz> just note from FESCO mtg that happened few minutes ago: "#agreed Blocking status remains unchanged, however FESCo no longer requires QA to test and report on physical media as part of the formal release criteria. (+6, 2, -0)"
16:04:44 <tablepc> So if we can load by telepathy is fine?
16:05:23 <frantisekz> it means that the virtual optical media still needs to be tested
16:05:27 <adamw> so fesco wants us to go with the 'it's blocking if someone finds it's broken, but we don't have to test it' approach?
16:05:36 <frantisekz> yeah
16:05:41 <adamw> okay, i guess
16:05:52 <sgallagh> adamw: Treat it like SAS
16:05:55 <adamw> heh
16:06:23 <frantisekz> I've already altered change proposal, I think we can let openqa/coconut submit results to wiki for CD/DVD matrices? or rather not adamw?
16:06:33 <adamw> it already does
16:06:45 <adamw> the matrices are separated by media type
16:06:56 <frantisekz> okay, didn't check that recently, thanks
16:07:12 <adamw> there are 'vm', 'usb' and 'cd/dvd' columns
16:07:13 * kparal arrives late
16:07:15 <adamw> openqa reports to vm
16:07:24 <adamw> i suppose we should rename that 'vm dvd' to be strictly accurate...
16:09:01 <adamw> alrighty, let's get going i guess
16:09:13 <kparal> where do we want to track that bare metal optical testing is not QA's responsibility? write it into the wiki matrix guidelines?
16:09:25 <kparal> or add a note to the criterion?
16:09:40 <adamw> one of those two, or possibly both, probably
16:09:40 <cmurf> exception note, just like the rules of hockey
16:10:12 <kparal> it feels a bit unclean to mix up criteria with qa responsibilities. but whatever
16:10:20 <cmurf> 2 minute penalty, except if he's bleeding and then it's 4 minutes
16:10:28 <kparal> :)
16:10:34 <adamw> hockey is a non-contact sport(*) * - except for checking, good old-fashioned clean fights, roughhousing, and straight up punches to the face so long as the ref's not looking too hard
16:10:48 <frantisekz> adamw++ :D
16:10:48 <zodbot> frantisekz: Karma for adamwill changed to 8 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:11:33 <adamw> shall we let frantisekz draft some changes as part of the Change, and then review them?
16:11:34 <kparal> frantisekz: I assume you'll prepare a draft for the criteria and wiki amendment?
16:11:50 <frantisekz> yeah, that's my plan
16:11:53 <kparal> I guess we just agreed it will be done by frantisekz  :)
16:12:04 <adamw> alrighty
16:13:31 <adamw> #topic Outstanding proposals
16:14:22 <adamw> #info on the Change proposal to stop blocking on physical optical media boot: FESCo decided we should keep it as blocking, but we (QA) are no longer required to test it, it will be a 'it's blocking if someone finds that it's broken' thing
16:14:33 <adamw> #action frantisekz to draft wiki changes to reflect this
16:14:37 <adamw> #undo
16:14:37 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by adamw at 16:14:33 : frantisekz to draft wiki changes to reflect this
16:14:53 <adamw> #action frantisekz to draft wiki changes to implement FESCo's decision on the physical optical media boot Change
16:15:14 <adamw> (future me would curse current me for writing an action that only makes sense in context...)
16:15:46 <adamw> so, aside from that, we have the unmount test case and the async blocker review process proposals
16:15:55 <adamw> i guess folks will be picking those back up shortly?
16:16:03 <tablepc> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_testcase_reboot
16:16:23 <kparal> I still haven't updated myself on those two
16:16:35 <kparal> but planning to do so asap
16:18:08 <adamw> tablepc: ah, you edited my draft?
16:18:32 <tablepc> Yes
16:18:34 <adamw> tablepc: perhaps you could copy it to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tablepc/Draft_testcase_reboot and work on it there? just makes it clearer whose draft it currently is :P
16:19:12 <tablepc> Just being lazy as engineers are supposed to be.
16:20:52 <adamw> tablepc: hehe
16:21:11 <tablepc> If there's a next I'l copy it back to my wiki pages.
16:21:38 <adamw> #info tablepc has been updating the unmount test case draft at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_testcase_reboot , if he has further changes they will be moved to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tablepc/Draft_testcase_reboot
16:21:46 <adamw> did you mail the list to review the current state? sorry, i can't remember
16:22:12 <tablepc> Yes, I sent a note back at Hohoho time.
16:23:10 <tablepc> I gave the link to your copy in the note since that's where the changes are.
16:23:14 <adamw> cool, thanks.
16:23:30 <adamw> so, everyone please check the latest draft and give your thoughts, if you didn't yet
16:23:38 <kparal> will do
16:23:48 <tablepc> I haven't had any feedback yet.
16:24:14 <lruzicka> ok
16:25:27 <adamw> anything on async blocker process, kparal?
16:25:36 <kparal> nothing new
16:26:32 <kparal> we'll create some PoC with lbrabec hopefully soon
16:26:56 <tablepc> PoC?
16:27:01 <adamw> proof of concept
16:27:09 <adamw> a sort of minimal working implementation
16:27:33 <adamw> #info no news on the async blocker proposal ATM, kparal and lbrabec are planning to create a proof-of-concept
16:29:09 <adamw> #topic Sponsorship process
16:29:41 <adamw> so, alciregi filed a ticket to become a group sponsor - https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/603
16:29:59 <adamw> which brings up the point that we really don't have a policy or process for that at all :( neither for making someone a sponsor, nor how to actually handle sponsoring people
16:30:23 <adamw> so far I think we've just made red hatters the sponsors and had one or two people (sort of) handle the sponsorship queue informally, but that kinda sucks
16:30:43 <adamw> i'm planning to draft up a couple of policies here, but does anyone have thoughts?
16:31:44 <tablepc> Establishing criteria will be fun... not
16:31:57 <adamw> i wasn't planning anything super heavyweight really
16:32:31 <adamw> probably just that anyone who's been around a while and clearly understands how we do stuff can be a sponsor, and a write-up of how i usually handle membership requests
16:33:16 <adamw> (which boils down to 'check if they sent a self-introduction mail and it looks vaguely genuine, and send a form mail to people who applied to join but haven't send a s
16:33:20 <kparal> are we talking about the "qa" group?
16:33:28 <adamw> elf-intro mail or communicated otherwise
16:33:38 <adamw> sigh, i am having cat tail-induced typos here
16:33:41 <adamw> kparal: yes
16:33:45 <adamw> the FAS group
16:34:00 <kparal> ftr: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/view/qa
16:34:05 <adamw> that's the bunny
16:34:50 <kparal> we have 4 sponsors already, I had no idea
16:36:12 <adamw> i think only me and sumantro really do the queue, though, and we don't do it enough
16:36:17 <adamw> people sometimes sit there for a while
16:36:50 <kparal> feel free to propose some policies for getting the role, so that we can get help
16:37:01 <lruzicka> I think if there should be more sponsors, some criteria on how to give memberships are needed.
16:37:25 <lruzicka> but I do not feel knowledgeable enough to decide them
16:41:13 <adamw> lruzicka: it's pretty much just what i wrote :P
16:41:18 <adamw> i just need to write it down as an SOP really
16:41:20 <bcotton> i think part of what we should consider is "what does group membership mean?"
16:41:30 <adamw> i think part of what we should consider is not considering it too hard!
16:41:47 <bcotton> adamw++
16:41:50 <bcotton> :-D
16:44:29 <adamw> #topic F32 status
16:45:29 <adamw> so, f32 has mostly been working lately...today's openqa is showing some more failures but on a quick look they look like a legit change in gdm which needs a needle update, not a new bug
16:45:36 <adamw> change review is ongoing ATM
16:47:06 <adamw> not much else to report, any other thoughts?
16:48:03 <tablepc> Questions are many asnwers are few.
16:50:19 <adamw> heh
16:50:22 <adamw> indeed
16:50:44 <adamw> #info Rawhide is mostly working well at this point, Change review is ongoing so we'll be able to look at the most significant accepted Changes once that is done
16:51:02 <adamw> it seems we don't have sumantro again today, so i'll skip the community status
16:51:08 <adamw> #topic Open floor
16:51:48 <cmurf> i can't use virt-manager at all in fc32, it refuses to start a VM due to some nftables conflict with firewalld
16:52:07 <adamw> huh, it's working for me though i have a weird selinux policy issue i have to deal with (not that)
16:52:42 <cmurf> .bug 1786876
16:52:47 <zodbot> cmurf: 1786876 – ERROR: 'python-nftables' failed: prevents libvirt from activating NAT, results in failure to start VMs - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1786876
16:52:55 <cmurf> clean install from maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago
16:53:05 <cmurf> i've been unable to figure out a work around
16:53:53 <cmurf> or maybe stopping firewalld is the work around, i forget :P
16:54:46 <lruzicka> hmm, I haven't worked with a vm for some time, I will have to see it for myself.
16:54:59 <cmurf> could be selinux related according to the latest update in the bug so i need to test that some more
16:55:56 <cmurf> nasty kernel 5.4 series bug related to i915 graphics on Kaby Lake and Skylake, total freeze (can ssh in remotely, usually)
16:57:22 <cmurf> kernel 5.5 so far is looking pretty good, at least for me it has fewer bugs than 5.4.x
16:58:46 <adamw> yeah, i just suspended my desktop last night for the first time in a while and it worked
16:58:49 <adamw> it's been broken for a few months
16:59:28 <tablepc> Is our kernel testing lacking?
16:59:56 * satellit listeing   (late)
16:59:56 <tablepc> or are this bugs corner cases
17:00:08 <adamw> more just a kinda function of how much hardware is out there
17:00:18 <adamw> we do pretty well at kernel testing i'd say...of course you can always do everything better...
17:00:22 <adamw> but we do have the kernel test days
17:00:36 <cmurf> i'm not certain of the Kabylake Skylake scope, if it's all CPUs I'd expect more complaints, but I'm not sure...
17:01:19 <cmurf> i think some of it is just complexity of a few enhancements, and also the timing of holidays making the backports to 5.4 slower than usual
17:01:21 <tablepc> The test days were what I was thinking of. If the tests cover everything. Perhaps we need to solicit more participation
17:02:33 * satellit latest x86 soas rawhide does not login...to liveuser
17:02:42 <tablepc> I suggested once that the tests should capture the CPUID
17:03:13 <adamw> tablepc: we could link out to things like the graphics test cases, i guess
17:03:23 <cmurf> yeah that might be helpful
17:03:37 <adamw> but there's so much you *could* test, we wouldn't want to overwhelm people
17:04:01 <tablepc> I have that posted as an issue for the kernel test software.
17:04:32 <tablepc> The kernel tests are very automated though and very easy to run.
17:05:00 <adamw> yeah, that's kinda the point
17:05:11 <adamw> it'd be harder to have an automated test for 'are graphics working' etc
17:05:28 <tablepc> Point made
17:06:18 <tablepc> Maybe we should characterize the hardware rnage we want to cover and leave the corner cases alone.
17:06:44 <adamw> anyhoo, we're overtime
17:06:53 <adamw> but please pass the thoughts along to sumantro next time we're planning a kernel test day, i guess
17:06:59 <adamw> thanks for coming, everyone!
17:07:16 <kparal> thanks adamw
17:07:18 <lruzicka> no problem, thanks for running the meeting
17:07:42 <tablepc> Have a Great Day Everyone!
17:08:02 <tablepc> ttfn
17:08:39 <adamw> #endmeeting