22:00:36 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2020-11-20)
22:00:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Nov 20 22:00:36 2020 UTC.
22:00:36 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
22:00:36 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:00:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:00:36 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2020-11-20)'
22:00:37 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
22:00:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
22:00:39 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson bstinson pgreco carlwgeorge
22:00:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: bstinson carlwgeorge nirik pgreco tdawson
22:00:40 <tdawson> #topic aloha
22:01:35 <pgreco> hi everybody, it's that time of the week again ;)
22:02:20 <smooge> hello
22:02:31 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
22:02:34 <tdawson> Hi smooge
22:02:35 * King_InuYasha waves
22:02:40 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
22:02:41 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
22:02:44 <tdawson> Hi King_InuYasha
22:02:48 <michel_slm> .hello salimma
22:02:49 <zodbot> michel_slm: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
22:03:12 <tdawson> Hi michel_slm
22:03:21 * michel_slm waves at everyone
22:03:31 <michel_slm> fittingly I'm taking this meeting from my CentOS laptop
22:03:55 <pgreco> michel_slm: that's good news ;)
22:05:20 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
22:05:49 <tdawson> epel-playground - we're basically all set, just waiting for fedpkg to be built.
22:06:12 <smooge> I am needing to put time into tickets for EPEL Stream
22:06:40 <tdawson> Isn't it going to be epel-next ?
22:07:19 <smooge> sure
22:07:33 <smooge> i don't name the things.. i just move the bits
22:07:37 <tdawson> Anyone know how often the fedpkg people do a new build?
22:07:39 <tdawson> :)
22:07:43 <smooge> I am needing to put time into tickets for EPEL-net
22:07:50 <michel_slm> tdawson: should we file an issue for that?
22:08:08 <smooge> .whoowns fedpkg
22:08:09 <zodbot> smooge: owner: onosek; admin: cqi, lsedlar
22:08:13 <michel_slm> I asked for a release in a closed issue, and I'm not sure if Pagure actually notifies the tagged person
22:08:34 <tdawson> michel_slm: I don't know.  I don't know if they do it "every two months" or if they wait until someone asks.
22:08:45 <michel_slm> let's file a bugzilla issue then
22:09:12 <tdawson> I'm fine with that.  michel_slm do you mind filing it?
22:09:26 <michel_slm> I've been using the stable version and, FWIW, it works. it generates an extra request for epel8-playground that I normally immediately close, and it warns that package.cfg is missing but continues working
22:09:34 <michel_slm> yeah, I'll file it
22:09:45 <tdawson> Thanks
22:10:29 <tdawson> As far as I know, once that get's built and out, we are done with the epel-playground transition.
22:11:16 <tdawson> While smooge is here, let's move on to epel8-next ... though I was hoping carlwgeorge would be here too.
22:12:23 <tdawson> smooge: Do you have an estimate of how long it will take before you can get to those tickets?
22:12:55 <tdawson> isn't there a shutdown / upgrade / maintenance thing happening soon?
22:12:57 <smooge> next week because everyone is away and I can finally work on things
22:13:04 <tdawson> :)
22:13:28 <smooge> No meetings, No managers
22:13:42 <smooge> {with a giant Anarchy symbol}
22:13:49 <King_InuYasha> hehe
22:14:10 <tdawson> Almost as good as working during christmas break, but without having to work on christmas.
22:14:20 <michel_slm> for the meeting info - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1900134
22:14:50 <michel_slm> we get the week off at FB so I can finally get some Fedora work done too :p
22:15:13 <pgreco> it is amazing the level of productivity a person can have without having to deal with other people :P
22:15:21 <tdawson> #info fedpkg needs to be built with the new code for epel-playground transistion.  Bug has been filed. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1900134
22:16:07 <tdawson> I remember the week I was the only one that didn't go to flock for some reason.  Much productivity.
22:16:21 <smooge> my most productive weeks
22:16:32 <smooge> anyway.. I will be working on it Mon-Wed
22:16:50 <tdawson> smooge: OK, that sounds great.  We'll check in on you the week after.
22:16:52 <smooge> It is mostly writing the documents on how it is done, then doing it, then handing the docs to the new admins
22:17:18 <smooge> at least the new admins agree that I spell colour correctly
22:17:27 <tdawson> *laughs*
22:18:09 <tdawson> Anything else for epel8-next?  Anything you need any help with?
22:19:43 <tdawson> OK, moving on to EPEL-Packaging-SIG ... michel_slm I'm sorry I missed this last week.
22:20:07 <michel_slm> no worries! I actually don't have any update this week
22:20:22 <tdawson> :)  Cool ... Then that makes it short.
22:20:35 <michel_slm> the one thing I want to discuss is... how do we want to onboard people to the SIG
22:20:53 <michel_slm> any example docs I can borrow, e.g. how to be a proven packager? I sense it shouldn't be "if you want it you're in"
22:23:00 <tdawson> Very good question ... oddly ... the proven packager page does say what the qualifications are other than fesco voting - https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Provenpackager_policy/
22:23:00 <King_InuYasha> I took time off next week, so I can do stuff too :)
22:23:03 <pgreco> a little less that proven packager, a bit more than that ;)
22:23:45 <tdawson> Definatly need to be a Fedora packager, so they know the general rules.
22:23:47 <michel_slm> maybe Python SIG has some policy
22:24:05 <michel_slm> <tdawson "Definatly need to be a Fedora pa"> yeah, I think that's already baked in to the group ACL
22:24:15 <michel_slm> but I should put it down in writint
22:24:35 <michel_slm> once we have a consensus and I have it written, I can link that page from the EPEL SIG. right now I'm intentionally keeping it hard to find
22:24:43 * michel_slm brb
22:25:17 <smooge> if it is on the wiki.. it is by definition hard to find
22:25:31 <tdawson> :)
22:25:36 <smooge> that said thanks michel_slm for doing that
22:26:13 <tdawson> Definatly, I think this will be a very good thing for EPEL.  Thank you michel_slm
22:26:26 <pgreco> Yeap
22:26:51 <pgreco> I'm hoping to clean up my $dayjob schedule so I can build some packages for epel
22:27:07 <pgreco> sounds a bit utopic, but a guy can dream
22:27:47 <pgreco> and on that note, I have a call from work..., bbiab
22:27:53 <michel_slm> thanks all for all the input. yeah, haha, I wonder if our wiki supports tagging
22:28:15 * smooge remembers that it is probably time to move the wiki version to something supported again
22:28:26 <michel_slm> woah
22:28:36 <tdawson> Like, Fedora Docs?
22:28:53 <michel_slm> on the policy front, I need to write an EPEL issue to discuss how we want branching requests to be handled if the maintainer doesn't respond
22:29:09 <michel_slm> oh, using Fedora Docs might make sense, true
22:29:24 <michel_slm> should we move the EPEL SIG doc as well, in that case?
22:30:19 <tdawson> If the EPEL docs move to Fedora Docs (from the wiki) we'll need to move all the docs.  So ya, the SIG docs would need to move also.
22:31:03 <tdawson> But, go ahead and put it in the wiki for now.
22:31:26 <tdawson> I haven't seen anyone jumping up and down wanting to do the conversion.
22:31:41 <michel_slm> I'll experiment getting a Lua packaging guideline to Fedora Docs next week so I'll have more familiarity with how it works. right now I've only done one PR for a minor change
22:32:25 <michel_slm> should I mail the list with the wiki link once I write the proposed joining guidelines?
22:32:37 <tdawson> That sounds good
22:32:40 <michel_slm> and then we can move on to the next topic
22:32:54 <tdawson> OK
22:33:03 * nirik isn't really here, but waves anyhow.
22:33:09 <tdawson> #info EPEL-6 is End of Life in 2020-11-30. It will be moved to archives in 2020-12
22:33:10 <tdawson> #info THIS IS NOT A DRILL - 2 weeks left
22:33:15 <tdawson> Hi nirik
22:33:22 <smooge> I would like to point something scary
22:33:36 <pgreco> I'm basically in the same mode as nirik now...
22:34:06 <smooge> https://data-analysis.fedoraproject.org/csv-reports/images/epel-all.png look at EL6 usage in the last year
22:34:52 <tdawson> Yipes
22:35:12 <smooge> I thought the curve looked fine in 2018.. starting to go down. Now its like watching a covid uptick
22:35:31 <nirik> huh, fun.
22:35:38 <tdawson> I've heard on other mailling lists people asking how to archive EPEL6
22:35:49 <michel_slm> yikes
22:36:12 <tdawson> It's the last release before systemd came in.  Some people are still a little scared to make that step.
22:36:14 <smooge> I will have an article on both how to archive centos and epel6 over the weekend
22:36:15 <michel_slm> I wonder if the MOTD should be changed to "if you're deploying this you're doing something wrong" :p
22:36:35 <smooge> if all goes well
22:36:47 <michel_slm> maybe die hard holdbacks will release a Centuan 8 based on CentOS 8 :p
22:36:56 <tdawson> smooge: That would be good.
22:36:58 <nirik> or they have some ancient app that won't work on newer...
22:37:13 * nirik whistles innocently, points to the fedora account system.
22:37:26 <smooge> now now.. lets not shame the living
22:37:42 <pgreco> nirik: hopefully you'd be able to get a EUS licence for that
22:37:49 <pgreco> *license
22:37:49 <smooge> anyway back to the main problem
22:38:03 <smooge> pgreco, it sits inside of a container
22:38:09 <nirik> it's in a container... and we are replacing it soon, but yeah, hopefully it will run ok in a container until we can finish removing it.
22:38:16 <smooge> containers are security safe so we don't have to update it anymore
22:38:28 <tdawson> I am pretty sure there are still some Red Hat 7.3 systems out there.
22:38:44 <nirik> smooge: the drop in epel5 a while back... is that when it went eol?
22:39:03 <nirik> 2017ish?
22:39:08 <smooge> it was.. when CentOS stops answering.. most systems yum break
22:39:33 <smooge> so when the CentOS mirrorlist stops giving data on CentOS-6... I expect we will see a major drop
22:39:34 <nirik> so likely we will see similar on epel6
22:39:38 <nirik> yeah
22:39:45 <tdawson> smooge: nirik: Anything you need help with on closing things up?
22:39:46 <smooge> the boxes are still there
22:40:07 <smooge> and sometimes when someone actually fixes the yum.. it comes back
22:40:37 <smooge> not really. I just archive it over.. adrian changes the mirrormanager to point to archives
22:40:52 <nirik> should open a releng ticket to close builds/disable in bodhi, etc...
22:40:58 <smooge> and nirik has to do all that ^^
22:41:00 <nirik> and hopefully bcotton is gonna close bugs.
22:41:14 <tdawson> I was planning on sending out the final "it's gone" email, along with thanks to all the EPEL6 packagers.
22:41:45 <tdawson> Oh ya ... the great bug closing. :)  It's so refreshing.
22:42:25 <nirik> my bug count goes down... jwz yells about cadt... it's fun
22:42:39 <tdawson> Yep
22:42:57 <tdawson> Anything else before we move on, I really want to get to Open Floor.
22:43:26 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
22:43:47 <tdawson> I did my "will it install" on EPEL7, and was peasently surprised.
22:43:51 <nirik> I'm hoping to make some progress on stuff for python3 koji next week
22:44:42 <tdawson> For epel7?
22:45:15 <King_InuYasha> there shouldn't be too much left to make Python 3 Koji work on EPEL 7
22:45:27 <tdawson> There were only about 20 packages that failed to build.  And only needed about 12 bugzilla's.  And a couple are already fixed.
22:45:29 <nirik> yeah, 2 or 3 packages I think
22:45:36 <nirik> it's close
22:46:49 <nirik> epel bz stat: 2581 open bugs.
22:47:07 <tdawson> Ooohh
22:47:31 <tdawson> I wonder how much that will go down when EPEL6 bugs are closed.
22:47:38 <nirik> epel6: 727, epel7: 1440, epel8: 414
22:47:46 <smooge> nah we are going to move them all to latest release
22:47:54 <tdawson> *laughs*
22:48:12 <smooge> 410 of those epel8 are 'can you build <package that needs something not shipped>'
22:48:28 <smooge> anyway.. I need to stop trolling you all
22:48:30 <tdawson> OK, moving on to ... EPEL8
22:48:41 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
22:48:48 <tdawson> I don't really have anything for EPEL8
22:49:02 <smooge> oh I guess we need a countdown for when EPEL-7 goes end of life.
22:49:02 <tdawson> I'm not going to do my "will it install" until CentOS 8.3 comes out.
22:49:25 <King_InuYasha> thank you
22:49:45 <King_InuYasha> I don't need to be inundated with EL8.3 related breakages until after I can actually see them and fix them :)
22:50:20 <tdawson> Yep.   Although I don't think there will be many ... but ... we'll see.
22:50:55 <tdawson> Although, I could do a run and just put the list in an email so people can see.
22:50:56 <michel_slm> smooge: hopefully we get the processes for the packagers SIG working before epel9 :)
22:51:24 <tdawson> That would/will be nice.
22:51:37 <smooge> agreed
22:51:45 <tdawson> OK, moving on to open floor ...
22:51:51 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
22:51:58 <smooge> I need to head out. Thanks for letting me troll you this week. I will be back in 2 weeks with a new routine.
22:52:08 <tdawson> Is everyone ok with not having a meeting next week?
22:52:13 <smooge> i am
22:52:26 <smooge> i mean i will probably be working on whatever is broken in koji
22:52:41 <tdawson> But ... you don't need a meeting to add on top of that.
22:52:52 <smooge> I have had 5 meetings on a friday
22:52:58 <smooge> its an addiction
22:53:18 <tdawson> Anyway, I won't be around, and I'm hoping that, other than smooge, people will be doing something else during the holiday.
22:54:11 <tdawson> Although in my state, going anywhere for Thanksgiving is frowned upon.
22:54:55 <nirik> yeah, +1 to skip
22:55:48 <tdawson> So, looks like we have 3 for skipping.
22:56:39 <tdawson> michel_slm: pgreco: King_InuYasha: If ya'll want to have the regular meeting next week, you certainly can if you want.
22:56:55 <michel_slm> I'm OK either way
22:57:13 <michel_slm> let's just skip it -- +1
22:59:05 <tdawson> It looks like pgreco is still doing other stuff ... but even if he and King_InuYasha wanted the meeting, it looks like 4 to possibly 2.
22:59:17 <King_InuYasha> skip please
22:59:30 <King_InuYasha> I'm on PTO next week and I'd like to think of less meetings
22:59:36 <tdawson> OK, it's official, we're skipping the meeting next week.
23:00:13 <tdawson> Thank you all for coming this week.  It was a very good discussion.  We'll talk with everyone in two weeks, December 4th.
23:00:23 <bcotton> "and hopefully is gonna close bugs" he is!
23:00:36 <tdawson> #info No meeting next week.  Next meeting December 4
23:00:39 <tdawson> #endmeeting