16:01:07 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
16:01:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 18 16:01:07 2021 UTC.
16:01:07 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:01:07 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
16:01:13 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
16:01:13 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
16:01:17 <frantisekz> .hello2
16:01:19 <zodbot> frantisekz: frantisekz 'František Zatloukal' <fzatlouk@redhat.com>
16:01:23 <adamw> #topic Roll call
16:01:26 <copperi> .hello2
16:01:27 <zodbot> copperi: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' <copper_fin@hotmail.com>
16:01:32 <tablepc> .hello2
16:01:33 <adamw> morning folks, welcome bittin and jason
16:01:34 <geraldosimiao> .hello2
16:01:34 <zodbot> tablepc: tablepc 'Pat Kelly' <pmkellly@frontier.com>
16:01:37 <zodbot> geraldosimiao: geraldosimiao 'None' <geraldo.simiao.kutz@gmail.com>
16:01:51 <jasonhong> .hello2
16:01:51 <coremodule> .hello2
16:01:51 <zodbot> jasonhong: jasonhong 'None' <jasonhong0810@gmail.com>
16:01:54 <zodbot> coremodule: coremodule 'Geoffrey Marr' <gmarr@redhat.com>
16:02:26 <bittin> Luna Jernberg <droidbittin@gmail.com> for the contact information, otherwise what i wrote above
16:02:29 <bittin> :P
16:02:55 <Southern_Gentlem> .hello2 jbwillia
16:02:56 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: Sorry, but you don't exist
16:03:01 <Southern_Gentlem> .hello jbwillia
16:03:02 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' <vaioof@gmail.com>
16:03:07 <tablepc> I send a note to @test a few minutes bacl with some items regarding G40
16:03:24 <bcotton> .hello2
16:03:25 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
16:03:33 <adamw> i'll take a look
16:03:37 <adamw> how's everyone doing?
16:03:46 <bittin> yeah i saw that someone else also sent an email today Sumantro
16:03:51 <geraldosimiao> excited about F34...
16:03:56 <tablepc> Well and working
16:04:17 <bittin> other then a small cold i am alright, its not covid atleast i have gotten tested twice :p
16:05:16 * kparal is here
16:05:27 <adamw> whew :)
16:05:29 <adamw> morning kparal
16:06:42 <adamw> alrighty
16:06:49 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
16:06:58 <frantisekz> (lruzicka said he isn't coming as he is just leaving a dentist)
16:07:14 <tablepc> No fun at all
16:07:16 <adamw> "sumantrom to look at putting together test plans and test days for major Changes" - how's that going, sumantro?
16:07:24 <adamw> dr. toothy time huh
16:07:40 <bittin> he wrote an email that he does not have time to attend but wrote some status thingie earlier today
16:08:20 <bittin> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MHROZTBLGBIKJRAEHBECSY2CMURKDAHR/
16:10:04 <adamw> aha thanks
16:10:07 <adamw> i shall summarize
16:11:09 <adamw> #info sumantro reports via email that he is filing test day tickets this week, and is working on the test plans and will share them soon
16:12:22 <adamw> #topic Fedora 34 status (inc. GNOME 40)
16:13:37 <tablepc> Does G40 have change proposals? If they do they shold be mirrored in the Fedora CPs and reviewed
16:14:30 <adamw> i don't think gnome uses anything exactly analogous to the Change system...
16:15:14 <bittin> Think they have some discussions on their Gitlab (but i might be wrong)
16:15:16 <adamw> i think most of the major changes are already decided and at implementation stage now, anyway
16:15:26 <tablepc> We need a way to know whats coming and properly plan for it instead of running around in emergency more before release
16:15:27 <cmurf> there might be a self contained change, not sure https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/210#comment-709914
16:16:36 <lruzicka> .hello2
16:16:37 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
16:16:50 <lruzicka> I am here until the anesthesia wears off
16:16:53 <tablepc> We also need to start seeing as much of the new version as we can earlier in the cycle so we can test it.
16:17:00 <adamw> so yeah, in case anyone still didn't hear yet, the GNOME thing is: a major GNOME release is landing in F34 with some significant design changes
16:17:03 <bittin> https://blogs.gnome.org/shell-dev/2020/12/18/gnome-shell-ux-plans-for-gnome-40/ not sure if this is any help
16:17:14 <adamw> tablepc: i mean, it's landing now and it's still fairly early in the cycle
16:17:58 <adamw> #info F34 status currently is: GNOME is broken :) other things are mostly working. desktop team is working on fixing up GNOME.
16:18:06 <bittin> https://wiki.gnome.org/Forty yeah its in Alpha currently
16:18:32 <tablepc> Except for the one item I pointed out IRT Tweaks I haven't seen any sign of it in Rawhide.
16:18:50 <geraldosimiao> I hear from someone that is a copr repo with G40 already, is it good?
16:19:05 <adamw> the copr repo has builds for f33
16:19:11 <geraldosimiao> ohhh
16:19:15 <kparal> I tried it shortly in a VM, the basics worked
16:19:43 <bittin> well stable release is not until 24rd March, still Alpha for now and then Beta and RC etc
16:19:47 <bittin> https://wiki.gnome.org/Forty
16:19:52 <geraldosimiao> I was testing rawhide, and when G40 updated the desktop crashed
16:20:19 <tablepc> Yes last minute decisions again March / April
16:20:21 <adamw> yeah. that's it landing. :D
16:20:28 <adamw> i mean
16:20:35 <geraldosimiao> just like you said adamw
16:20:38 <frantisekz> yeah, I've got some crashes in vm with new gnome too, since yesterday, I still need to dig in more
16:20:59 <adamw> this is the way we've been doing it for a while, and it usually works out fine
16:21:12 <bittin> +1 adamw
16:21:15 <adamw> fedora and gnome stabilize on around the same timeline
16:21:29 <cmurf> #link https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/christopherdavis/gnome-shell-40/
16:21:36 <frantisekz> anyhow, any issues with new gnome should be reported directly to https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/1547
16:22:12 <frantisekz> (at least that's what I've been we should do)
16:22:29 <tablepc> Thanks for the link. I've got that one saved.
16:22:50 <bittin> yeah thanks cmurf and frantisekz
16:23:19 <tablepc> If G40 does not include the Tweaks Extensions settings. will "Gsettings" at least still work?
16:24:04 <adamw> gsettings is still going to be there. what's configurable to do what is up to the devs...
16:26:19 <adamw> so yeah, look out for major changes in gnome once the builds are actually usable. if you're on f33 but interested in trying the new gnome bits, https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/mattscreative1909/gnome-shell-40/ is the COPR, but of course pre-release rules apply!
16:27:00 <tablepc> Thanks
16:27:11 <cmurf> i'm not sure how i got the wrong copr, i grabbed it from the workstation channel log :P
16:27:30 <adamw> oh
16:27:32 <adamw> you might be right
16:27:37 <cmurf> i don't think so
16:27:48 <frantisekz> i got this one: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/haeckerfelix/gnome-shell-40/
16:27:49 <frantisekz> :D
16:27:54 <cmurf> the one i referred to is 14 days old and mutter didn't build
16:27:57 <cmurf> haha
16:28:01 <adamw> there's also https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/haeckerfelix/gnome-shell-40/
16:28:02 <adamw> yeah
16:28:04 <cmurf> that means there's at least 4
16:28:14 <adamw> there are lots of coprs! pick one. pick them all! install some packages from ubuntu just for fun!
16:28:21 <bittin> lol
16:28:36 <adamw> that haeckerfelix one seems to have the most builds and activity, for whatever that's worth
16:28:41 <cmurf> btrfs sub snap -r root root.holdontourbutts
16:29:57 <frantisekz> got mine from workstation (something) project owner, think it should be the ONE
16:30:39 <adamw> yeah let's say it's that one
16:31:00 <tablepc> What one? Got a link?
16:31:03 <adamw> #info https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/haeckerfelix/gnome-shell-40/ is the best COPR . we think! probably. totally officially.
16:31:40 <adamw> any other notes on f34/gnome 40 before we move on?
16:31:59 <tablepc> Good luck to all of us.
16:34:40 <bittin> #topic Gating proposals/ideas
16:35:47 <adamw> only chairs get to do that :P
16:35:50 <adamw> sorry, got distracted
16:35:57 <adamw> #topic Gating proposals/ideas
16:36:33 <adamw> so I have a proposal in right now to gate critpath updates for stable releases on the openqa test results
16:37:15 <tablepc> Seems like a good idea to me.
16:37:28 <adamw> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/QFYS4OCIAYLOBS3PX4MZNIDMEUVQUO3Q/
16:37:46 <adamw> response to that has been mostly positive and i'm working on implementation now, also sent it to fesco for a vote since kevin asked
16:38:00 <adamw> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2548 is the fesco ticket
16:38:30 <geraldosimiao> You mean, to avoid such things like last week with plasma desktop?
16:38:52 <adamw> basically yes
16:39:01 <geraldosimiao> fine, excellent
16:39:07 <adamw> though we looked into that at the time and it wouldn't have done in that specific case because the kde critical path package group is not well populated
16:39:11 <cmurf> less breakage = goodness
16:39:18 <adamw> i think mattdm volunteered to get that fixed, or someone did anyway
16:39:31 <adamw> but that's the basic idea, yes.
16:40:03 <tablepc> Progress is good.
16:40:03 <bittin> yes less breakage sounds good to me
16:40:44 <adamw> cool, so i'll just keep going on with that
16:41:08 <adamw> there are also a couple other ideas in this area that haven't been put out formally yet but i wanted to kick around a bit
16:41:25 <lruzicka> I would like to propose changes to the Audio testing.
16:41:34 <tablepc> Tell us Please
16:42:01 <adamw> one, rawhide compose gating. that means not actually 'releasing' a rawhide compose (replacing the /development/rawhide/ tree contents with it) if it doesn't pass some subset of the openqa tests
16:42:06 <lruzicka> With the change to PipeWire, I have looked around into what PipeWire is going to do and what could be tested
16:42:26 <bittin> adamw: +1
16:42:27 <adamw> lruzicka: can we put that to open floor please?
16:42:31 <adamw> i'll make sure there's time
16:42:33 <lruzicka> sure
16:42:38 <adamw> thanks!
16:42:39 <kparal> adamw: I don't envy you to be the person which everybody will poke any time there's a problem with the gating system or any of the tests... :)
16:43:07 <adamw> so for rawhide compose gating - we have had a greenwave profile for this for some time, and the "compose check reports" say whether each compose passed it
16:43:12 <adamw> they...very rarely do
16:43:53 <adamw> the profile is pretty large, though. it includes i think 40+ tests? it basically includes every test we have that covers something in the Basic criteria
16:44:10 <adamw> so i'm thinking of proposing we start a bit smaller, and add a narrower policy that only requires a few really vital tests to pass
16:44:37 <adamw> that would at least catch really badly broken composes, and let us establish the basic process, and we could aim to broaden out from there later
16:44:43 <adamw> what do folks think about that?
16:45:28 <cmurf> sounds magical
16:45:29 <tablepc> Good idea it can be a bit of trouble to load a new drop of RH and have it be seriously broken
16:45:33 <tflink> makes sense to me
16:45:40 <adamw> https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/blob/main/f/roles/openshift-apps/greenwave/templates/fedora.yaml#_157 is the policy we have atm
16:45:47 <lruzicka> sound good
16:46:03 <jasonhong> yes that sounds good
16:46:20 <adamw> cool cool
16:46:26 <adamw> so i'll line that up for after the update gating thing
16:47:36 <adamw> the final idea i wanted to float is a bit bigger than either of those, but i do want to feel it out at least: doing the openqa update tests on rawhide updates
16:48:01 <geraldosimiao> any information on kde plasma 5.21 for the F34?
16:48:06 <adamw> people have asked for this before but i always kinda resisted for a few reasons, but i think it might be worth trying at this point
16:48:17 <tablepc> Yes, I got bit by one of those today
16:48:21 <geraldosimiao> sorry, I think is offtopic. :(
16:48:33 <adamw> geraldo: we can do it in open floor too
16:48:38 <adamw> gonna cut to open floor after this topic
16:48:46 <bittin> geraldosimiao: thats releases in February so can be included i think ?
16:48:53 <geraldosimiao> ok
16:49:00 <kparal> adamw: sounds good
16:49:38 <bittin> around 9-11th February Plasma 5.21 releasedays is
16:49:38 <adamw> so there are various considerations with openqa testing rawhide updates: the tests run from base disk images, and those need to work; we also would need packagers to get into the habit of doing internally-consistent updates for rawhide when packages depend on each other, not just submitting them all separately as is still common practice
16:49:58 <adamw> that leads into the problem of bodhi permissions frequently making that difficult for maintainers
16:50:23 <adamw> so i think we'd ultimately wind up needing to make some proposals to make bodhi more liberal about who's allowed to do what to which updates
16:50:29 <adamw> at least in rawhide
16:50:55 <bittin> i would rather keep that as is, but thats just me
16:51:40 <adamw> well, the problem is we have lots of cases where maintainer A owns libfoo and maintainer B owns appbar which depends on libfoo . when libfoo is rebuilt, appbar needs to be rebuilt against it and included in the same update
16:52:13 <adamw> but permissions can mean that neither A nor B can add the appbar build to the libfoo update
16:52:21 <adamw> and if a provenpackager does it, then A can't edit their own update any more
16:52:32 <adamw> it gets pretty messy
16:52:53 <kparal> if only we had automation to detect this and prevent human errors...
16:52:54 <adamw> and it's hard to ask maintainers to do "the right thing" if the tools make it hard
16:52:58 <adamw> kparal: heh
16:53:30 <adamw> anyway, yeah, i mostly just wanted to float that i'm thinking of tackling that at some point, after the other gating ideas and if there's enough time around firefighting
16:53:36 <adamw> it's not immediate :)
16:53:58 <adamw> so we'll do open floor next, any thoughts on these specific gating proposals or related thoughts first?
16:54:14 <tablepc> I've been thinking lately about also helping out with packaging. You seem to indicate more packagers will be needed. Problem is I know nothing about how to do it. Ant good book suggestions?
16:54:28 <kparal> start small, expand, embrace, extinguish
16:55:49 <adamw> tablepc: i haven't looked at the contents in detail lately, but there's https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/creating-rpm-packages/ and https://rpm-packaging-guide.github.io/
16:55:55 <adamw> kparal: :D
16:55:58 <adamw> #topic Open floor
16:56:05 <adamw> okay, fire away with the notes/questions :)
16:56:16 <lruzicka> can I?
16:56:33 <kparal> lruzicka: yes
16:56:41 <bittin> Red Hat is having a packing webinar tommorow aswell: https://www.redhat.com/en/events/webinar/learning-the-basics-of-packaging-with-RPM?sc_cid=7013a0000026GVKAA2 , tablepc
16:57:07 <tablepc> Thanks
16:57:28 <lruzicka> So, there is a lot what might be tested around the audio stuff, I have written a report and shared it (just internally on QA at first), now I should probably make it Fedora wide.
16:57:29 <jasonhong> yes thank you for that ^
16:57:53 <adamw> yes please!
16:58:04 <adamw> (that was for lruzicka)
16:58:34 <lruzicka> with frantisekz and kparal we basically think we might update the Testcase Basic Audio to also include some basic recording test and then prepare more testing in scope of test days
16:58:51 <adamw> sounds good
16:59:06 <adamw> geraldosimao, you were asking about plasma updates?
16:59:06 <lruzicka> I have also internally published the proposal for such basic audio test
16:59:08 <kparal> lruzicka: I'd create a separate testcase for recording, but I'll be happy to respond to your proposal
16:59:19 <adamw> i don't see any change proposals, but we do usually stay up to date with new versions...you could ask in #fedora-kde
16:59:37 <lruzicka> kparal, sounds good to me. In that case, I will edit the proposal and put in in testlist tomorrow
16:59:38 <geraldosimiao> yes, but I think youre already told.
16:59:43 <kparal> lruzicka++
16:59:43 <zodbot> kparal: Karma for lruzicka changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:59:47 <lruzicka> adamw, qa-list
16:59:50 <frantisekz> lruzicka++
16:59:52 <bittin> lruzicka: ++ sounds good
16:59:53 <zodbot> frantisekz: Karma for lruzicka changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:59:56 <tablepc> I always run obs-studio I can see if there are audio or video problem pretty quickly with that
17:00:06 <adamw> #action lruzicka to post his proposals for audio testing to test@
17:00:22 <bittin> lruzicka++
17:00:24 <lruzicka> tablepc, what is obs-studio?
17:00:24 <zodbot> bittin: Karma for lruzicka changed to 3 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
17:00:34 <geraldosimiao> so plasma 5.21 will probably be shipped with F34 by the final release
17:00:40 <lruzicka> thanks
17:00:43 <bittin> lruzicka: https://obsproject.com/ Open Broadcaster Software
17:00:48 <bittin> Software for streaming and recording etc
17:00:58 <bittin> a lot of Twitch streamers use it
17:01:00 <geraldosimiao> obs-studio is for streamming, very good
17:01:03 <tablepc> Quite comprehensive Audio / video recording
17:01:13 <adamw> sounds like a good test
17:01:22 <lruzicka> looking at it, looks very interesting
17:01:36 <tablepc> Not only streaming recording to file too.
17:01:37 <geraldosimiao> obs is the first to show problems with waylanda BTW
17:02:18 <lruzicka> I will take a closer look at it, this might come handy for instructional videos as well
17:02:37 <copperi> sounds good
17:02:38 <bittin> lruzicka: for sure is
17:02:43 <tablepc> That's what I primarily use it for
17:03:11 <frantisekz> lruzicka: obs how to can be found eg here: https://github.com/devconfcz/virtual-presentations/blob/master/Recording.md
17:03:26 <tablepc> When I get user questions I send them a quick video.
17:03:31 <frantisekz> that's for devconf speakers but seems like a good general guide on "how to obs on Fedora"
17:03:39 <adamw> #info tablepc and bittin suggest open broadcaster software (obs) as a good test for audio
17:04:09 <adamw> alrighty, we're over time
17:04:12 <adamw> anything else urgent?
17:04:13 <lruzicka> ok, will look into it
17:04:32 <bittin> not from me keep on testing and cya next meeting
17:04:39 * kparal waves
17:04:59 <frantisekz> not from me, thanks adamw for organizing and everybody else for coming!
17:05:06 <tablepc> Have a Great Day Everyone! BYe for now
17:05:16 <geraldosimiao> bye everyone :)
17:05:21 <lruzicka> have a good time, everybody. see you around.
17:05:21 <copperi> bye
17:05:21 <jasonhong> see you next meeting. bye everyone
17:05:32 <adamw> thanks for coming, folks!
17:06:44 <adamw> #endmeeting