18:00:00 <bcotton_> #startmeeting Council (2021-02-04)
18:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Feb  4 18:00:00 2021 UTC.
18:00:00 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:00 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:00 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2021-02-04)'
18:00:01 <bcotton_> #meetingname council
18:00:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
18:00:03 <bcotton_> #chair bookwar dcantrell jwf riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton asamalik x3mboy sumantrom marianab
18:00:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton_ bookwar dcantrell jwf riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton asamalik x3mboy marianab sumantrom
18:00:04 <bcotton_> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
18:00:06 <bcotton_> NAILED IT
18:00:27 <riecatnor> .hello riecatnor
18:00:28 <zodbot> riecatnor: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
18:00:31 <x3mboy> .hello2
18:00:32 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
18:00:34 <King_InuYasha> .hello ngompa
18:00:35 <zodbot> King_InuYasha: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
18:00:45 <bcotton_> hi riecatnor x3mboy King_InuYasha
18:00:50 <mattdm> .hello2
18:00:51 <zodbot> mattdm: mattdm 'Matthew Miller' <mattdm@mattdm.org>
18:00:58 <bcotton_> hi mattdm!
18:00:59 <sumantro> .hello sumantrom
18:01:00 <zodbot> sumantro: sumantrom 'Sumantro Mukherjee' <sumukher@redhat.com>
18:01:12 <marianab[m]> .hello marianab
18:01:13 <zodbot> marianab[m]: marianab 'None' <marianaballa848@gmail.com>
18:01:23 <spot> .hello spot
18:01:24 <zodbot> spot: spot 'Tom Callaway' <spotrh@gmail.com>
18:01:25 <bcotton_> welcome, marianab[m]!
18:01:27 <bcotton_> heya spot
18:01:49 <jwf> .hello jflory7
18:01:50 <zodbot> jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <foss@jwf.io>
18:01:53 <dcantrell> .hello2
18:01:54 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
18:02:28 <bcotton_> welcome jwf and dcantrell
18:02:36 <bcotton_> this is a very well-attended meeting :-D
18:02:49 <riecatnor> hi bcotton :)
18:03:10 <bcotton_> mattdm: before we get started, do you want to say a word of welcome (and re-welcome) for marianab[m] and sumantro?
18:03:28 <mattdm> Yes! Welcome and rewelcome to the Council!
18:03:31 <marianab[m]> Good day/ evening everyone :)
18:03:46 <mattdm> As objective reps, your main resposibility is to areas related to that objective, of course...
18:04:04 <mattdm> ... but we like to also include objective leads as much as possible in all areas
18:04:24 <mattdm> ... which helps give our decision making more perspective and keeps it connected across the project.
18:04:53 <mattdm> So, don't be shy if the topic is something other the the Outreach Revamp
18:05:05 <sumantro> hey everybody!! :) thanks mattdm and bcotton_ for the warm welcome!
18:05:56 <mattdm> As a point of order, sumantro and mariana will officially share a single vote, but in most cases it'll be fine to just speak individually
18:06:24 <mattdm> It'll matter only if we have a big formal issue which needs quorum -- or if you disagree.
18:06:26 <marianab[m]> Thanks for the warm welcome everybody!
18:06:37 <jwf> Warm welcomes to marianab[m] and sumantro \o/
18:07:05 <riecatnor> welcome :D
18:07:41 <marianab[m]> Regarding the objective, how and how often we should report to the council about it?
18:08:05 <mattdm> This is an ongoing struggle :)
18:08:17 <mattdm> I personally would love monthly updates.
18:08:41 <mattdm> Including how-it-is-going information but also places where we can help.
18:09:03 <x3mboy> Hi and welcome to the new members!
18:09:07 <mattdm> Maybe this is going beyond the "before we get started" topic and should be its own item in teh agenda?
18:09:19 <bcotton_> yeah, this needs some discussion later
18:09:21 <jwf> +1
18:09:31 <bcotton_> probably not in today's meeting
18:09:36 <bcotton_> mattdm: EOF?
18:09:41 <mattdm> sure :)
18:09:52 <bcotton_> #topic Today's agenda
18:09:53 <bcotton_> #info 2020 Code of Conduct report
18:09:55 <bcotton_> #info Logo adoption timeline
18:09:55 <mattdm> put it on the agenda for a future meeting if we don't get to it today though
18:09:56 <bcotton_> #info Fedora annual survey
18:09:58 <bcotton_> #info Add the Fedora goal of having complete integrated system
18:09:59 <bcotton_> #info Reminders of Council bio tickets
18:10:01 <bcotton_> mattdm: ack
18:10:04 <bcotton_> #topic 2020 Code of Conduct report
18:10:07 <bcotton_> riecatnor: the floor is yours
18:11:10 <riecatnor> hey peeps. I have written up an accompanying blog post on this topic, but also wanted to give a short read out
18:11:21 <riecatnor> In 2020 we had more than two times the number of CoC reports when compared to 2019
18:11:42 <mattdm> *sigh*
18:11:42 <bcotton_> #info In 2020 we had more than two times the number of CoC reports when compared to 2019
18:11:49 <riecatnor> mattdm and I spent a significant amount of time dealing with CoC this year, and subsequently *why*
18:11:55 <riecatnor> We came up with the following
18:11:57 <mattdm> also they were subjectively more difficult than 2019.
18:12:02 <riecatnor> The first being that wow, Covid-19 was really, really, REALLY, hard to deal with. For everyone, in every place, across the world, and even in the Fedora community.
18:12:08 <mattdm> and I think 2019 was twice 2018.
18:12:24 <riecatnor> The second theory being that over the past couple years we have worked on improving the CoC, assured folks we are taking it seriously, and encouraged people to open CoC tickets when they feel it is appropriate.
18:12:40 <riecatnor> Number of tickets opened: 20
18:12:40 <riecatnor> Number of tickets closed: 16
18:12:51 <bcotton_> #info 20 tickets opened, 16 tickets closed
18:12:54 <riecatnor> Warnings issued: 8
18:12:54 <riecatnor> Moderations issued: 4
18:12:54 <riecatnor> Suspensions issued: 2
18:12:54 <riecatnor> Bans issued: 0
18:13:12 <bcotton_> #info 8 warnings issued, 4 moderations issued, 2 suspensions issued, 0 bans issued
18:13:14 <riecatnor> er, the Suspensions should be 3
18:13:32 <bcotton_> #undo
18:13:32 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by bcotton_ at 18:13:12 : 8 warnings issued, 4 moderations issued, 2 suspensions issued, 0 bans issued
18:13:37 <bcotton_> #info 8 warnings issued, 4 moderations issued, 3 suspensions issued, 0 bans issued
18:14:00 <riecatnor> This year already appears to be an improvement, FINGERS CROSSED
18:14:08 <riecatnor> I think folks have settled into pandemic living
18:14:21 <mattdm> It's probably also worth nothing that while there were no bans, the suspensions require active reinstatement which has not always been asked for
18:14:49 <riecatnor> that's all I have
18:15:08 <mattdm> I certainly hope that you are right and things are getting better
18:15:22 <spot> ++
18:15:24 <bcotton_> any repeat actions or were all of the actions taken unique individuals?
18:15:35 <riecatnor> repeat actions were taken
18:16:10 <riecatnor> *in some cases
18:16:11 <mattdm> generally, there is an escalation here: we don't jump straight to suspention
18:16:16 <mattdm> shion
18:16:18 <riecatnor> oh definitely!
18:16:57 <bcotton_> any other questions or comments?
18:17:20 <jwf|m> Thank you for your work on these issues riecatnor and mattdm
18:17:23 <mattdm> thanks jwf|m
18:17:27 <jwf|m> It is a huge work
18:17:55 <spot> ++
18:18:25 <spot> this is important work
18:18:35 <jwf> +1
18:18:41 <sumantro> +1
18:19:05 <mattdm> It is by far my least favorite, so think you for your support here.
18:19:12 <bcotton_> #topic Logo adoption timeline
18:19:14 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/249
18:19:15 <bcotton_> #info previously: mattdm to coordinate a plan for the logo rollout and come back to the Council with a proposal
18:19:17 <bcotton_> #info duffy will present an update on the logo at the March video meeting
18:19:30 <jwf> w00t!
18:19:54 <mattdm> So, the state of this right now is that there's a meeting scheduled to come up with that plan to propose :)
18:20:05 <mattdm> #info from mattdm the state of this right now is that there's a meeting scheduled to come up with that plan to propose :)
18:20:12 * spot follows the symlinks... ok. :)
18:20:14 <bcotton_> #info we are planning to plan
18:20:15 <mattdm> I think that's all I have on this :)
18:20:39 <jwf> spot: lolol
18:20:50 <bcotton_> okay. we'll hold questions on this until after the plan exists
18:21:03 <bcotton_> #topic Fedora annual survey
18:21:05 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/327
18:21:06 <mattdm> I mean, we can take questions now if anyone has them :)
18:21:06 <bcotton_> #info previously: bookwar to review the content from the survey etherpad and repost into the ticket as a proposal
18:21:24 <riecatnor> bcotton_, I started working on this a bit
18:21:43 <bcotton_> Also, openSUSE did one and had a big, public meting about it!
18:21:44 <bcotton_> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/recap-of-opensuses-end-of-year-survey/26582
18:21:47 <bcotton_> riecatnor: do tell!
18:22:05 <King_InuYasha> two big public meetings :)
18:22:11 <riecatnor> #link https://hackmd.io/MqPUtYrnSOesig7hJ9RPQg?view
18:22:14 <King_InuYasha> both of which are now on YouTube
18:22:36 <bcotton_> King_InuYasha: would you mind posting those links to the discussion thread above?
18:22:49 <King_InuYasha> sure
18:23:23 <riecatnor> I think we need to look at each of the survey questions through this lens:
18:23:24 <riecatnor> What information do you expect to get out of this question? How will the answer help you make a decision? Does the answer to this question (together with the others) provide enough information to make that decision?
18:24:54 <riecatnor> it's still a WIP
18:25:00 <bcotton_> i think we've been sort of vague about that first one :-)
18:25:20 <bcotton_> are you wanting feedback on the hackmd or not yet? (or via some other method)?
18:25:44 <riecatnor> feedback welcome
18:26:00 <jwf> Yeah, happy to help workshop if there is a place you prefer feedback
18:26:21 <bcotton_> any deadline you want for the feedback or just....sometime?
18:26:55 <riecatnor> I don't think its useful to run an unpolished survey.. so until I can focus on it, then yes, sometime
18:27:04 <riecatnor> or if bookwar is able to :)
18:27:07 <bcotton_> cool
18:27:20 <bcotton_> anything else on this topic? it's great to see some progress here
18:28:07 <mattdm> i have nothing more than empty encouragement :)
18:28:41 <King_InuYasha> I posted in the topic on Discourse
18:28:47 <King_InuYasha> links to the video recordings
18:28:53 <bcotton_> thanks, King_InuYasha!
18:28:58 <bcotton_> #topic Add the Fedora goal of having complete integrated system
18:28:59 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/280
18:29:00 <jwf> King_InuYasha++
18:29:01 <bcotton_> #info From vF2F: mattdm and bookwar to find a place to fit “upstream first” and then add in the contents of https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Objectives&oldid=2124
18:29:02 <bcotton_> #info previously: “We'll come back to this next time”
18:29:25 <mattdm> #action repeat previous nonaction
18:29:35 <mattdm> haha now I actioned "repeat" into doing something.
18:29:38 <mattdm> sorry repeat
18:29:47 <bcotton_> pete and repeat walked into an action item...
18:29:55 <mattdm> Neither Aleksandra nor I have had time to work on this
18:29:57 <spot> #recursion
18:30:11 <mattdm> Recommend exponential backoff and check on this ... two meetings from now? :)
18:30:39 <bcotton_> ack
18:31:07 <bcotton_> #topic Reminders of Council bio tickets
18:31:09 <bcotton_> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/issues?status=Open&search_pattern=bio&close_status=
18:31:38 <bcotton_> if you see your name in that issue list, please provide a bio of some sort for the docs page
18:31:42 <mattdm> wow that's action for SIX PEOPLE
18:31:52 <mattdm> riecatnor!!!!
18:31:55 <bcotton_> otherwise, i might invent a bio for you
18:32:14 <mattdm> action bcotton to write fantastic stories
18:32:27 <jwf> lolol!
18:33:00 <spot> well, i tried, but I got "Method not allowed"
18:33:04 <mattdm> In seriousness, don't be shy. Someday this is going on each of your wiki pages.
18:33:06 <riecatnor> lol, this is 8 months old
18:33:16 <riecatnor> *my ticket
18:33:22 <mattdm> riecatnor: false! opened 2019-11-25!
18:33:27 <riecatnor> I feel like I never saw this.........
18:33:39 <jwf> The council-docs tickets do sometimes evade detection…
18:33:43 <riecatnor> yes, modified 8 months ago!
18:33:51 <riecatnor> :P
18:34:04 <mattdm> I think that was last time we had this name-and-shame event in a meeting
18:34:12 <dcantrell> bcotton: use https://www.character-generator.org.uk/ to generate bios
18:34:14 <mattdm> spot: method not allowed from pagure?
18:34:33 <spot> yep.
18:34:36 <mattdm> well, I get "branch not found"
18:34:44 <mattdm> i think the URL has changed
18:34:50 <spot> I fixed that with "s/master/main"
18:35:26 <mattdm> oh yes that
18:35:40 <mattdm> (also, go, us!)
18:35:46 <bcotton_> yeah, some of these tickets pre-date changing the default branch
18:36:51 <bcotton_> #topic Next meeting
18:36:52 <bcotton_> #info The next Video Meeting is Thursday 11 February. The guest will be Ben Williams talking about the Respins SIG
18:36:53 <spot> my existing bio on my wiki user page contains the right balance of truth and lies, feel free to reuse it. :D
18:36:54 <bcotton_> #info The next regular business meeting is Thursday 18 February
18:37:07 <bcotton_> spot: ack
18:37:17 <bcotton_> #topic Do we have anything to announce?
18:37:19 <bcotton_> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities
18:37:20 <bcotton_> things already announced
18:37:22 <bcotton_> #info Join Fedora at FOSDEM this weekend
18:37:23 <bcotton_> #link https://fedoramagazine.org/join-fedora-at-fosdem-2021/
18:37:42 <x3mboy> Yay FOSDEM!!!
18:37:55 <spot> i am trying not to be super sad about not being at FOSDEM with all of you wonderful people
18:38:06 <x3mboy> Awww
18:38:08 <jwf> same
18:38:08 <mattdm> right? next year in brussels!
18:38:11 <x3mboy> You will be missed
18:38:24 <riecatnor> Ik :((((
18:38:30 <sumantro> :(
18:38:40 * bcotton_ will have to eat waffles and frites this weekend
18:38:49 <mattdm> bcotton_: ah, good plan.
18:38:51 <jwf> No Drug Opera Sunday night dinner :P
18:39:10 <bcotton_> no horse steak with contyk :-(
18:39:22 <sumantro> or the Delirium village
18:39:31 <jwf> Horse steak?? lol
18:39:37 <mattdm> jwf: oh yes.
18:39:46 <mattdm> I am too old for Delirium :)
18:39:47 * spot eyes this thread suspiciously
18:39:51 <jwf> I could skip Delirium tho, lolol! 😂
18:40:04 <jwf> anyways my mind wandered :D
18:40:11 <bcotton_> we should put a content warning on this discussion for spot
18:40:26 * spot is sensitive and easily disturbed
18:40:27 <marianab[m]> It's sad that we will not meet in person this weekend but we have virtual plans
18:40:39 <mattdm> Yep. I will be there virtually!
18:40:42 <jwf> We need some optimism :D
18:40:50 <jwf> Planning to come by for the Fedora stand too
18:41:39 <riecatnor> just sent a pic to the council chat  from last year :)
18:41:43 <bcotton_> okay, anything else we need to announce?
18:41:59 <riecatnor> there will be a raffle
18:42:02 <x3mboy> Not from me
18:42:04 <riecatnor> :P
18:42:07 <marianab[m]> There are going to be 2 social hours as well
18:42:26 <mattdm> I had something to say but I think it was another topic not an announce and also now I've lost it to ADHD
18:43:07 <mattdm> oh I remember. two things. GNOME Adboard meeting and shells.com. Both of these are cuick uncil business and not announcements.
18:43:24 <bcotton_> okay, we'll come to those in a moment
18:43:39 <bcotton_> #topic Dashboard check
18:43:41 <bcotton_> #link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/dashboard/
18:43:52 <bcotton_> #action bcotton to propose ending this experiement
18:44:21 <bcotton_> but otherwise, no flags have been raised
18:44:50 <mattdm> yeah i think it's a fail.
18:44:53 <mattdm> need another way.
18:45:17 <bcotton_> #topic Open floor
18:45:25 <bcotton_> hokay, mattdm, go with your things
18:45:29 <mattdm> Ok, thing one!
18:45:34 <x3mboy> I have a something too
18:45:41 <x3mboy> * I have something too
18:45:52 <mattdm> Next monday is the GNOME advisory board meeting. This is not the GNOME Board, it is the board-of-people-who-give-GNOME-money
18:46:13 <bcotton_> x3mboy: ack
18:46:13 <mattdm> I have a seat on this board as a Red Hat rep, but primarily to represent Fedora interests
18:46:31 <mattdm> (It's a closed meeting, btw.)
18:46:50 <mattdm> I have Things that I will say about Fedora's needs, interests, and how things are going...
18:47:09 <mattdm> but also if you have anything that you'd like me to communicate -- or learn -- let me know!
18:47:19 <mattdm> not necessarily right now, but before monday. :)
18:47:49 <mattdm> The second thing is shells.com trademark request
18:47:51 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/349
18:48:06 <jwf> I defer more to the engineering folks on that one. Although good to see that GNOME is launching their own D&I initiative this year as well
18:48:23 <x3mboy> Oh I want to be part of the testing bed, if that's ok
18:48:24 <mattdm> we have three trial accounts. well, four because I already have one. Ben requested one and the other two are up for grabs.
18:48:39 <mattdm> x3mboy: yes. I will send you a URL after this meeting is done.
18:48:43 <mattdm> who else? :)
18:48:45 <x3mboy> Thanks!
18:48:49 <dcantrell> I'll do it
18:48:53 <mattdm> okay, sold
18:49:15 <mattdm> bcotton_ noted that it seems to ask for a credit card but I asked them and got the answer back that you _should_ be able to ignore that
18:49:25 <mattdm> it is just confusing in the UI because it's not a case they've optimized for
18:49:47 <mattdm> and that is all.
18:50:02 <mattdm> i will remind them that we're still looking for a list of any changes they've made
18:50:29 <mattdm> and i think that's all?
18:50:47 <bcotton> so i figured out the problem and it was that the link you sent me got rendered funny
18:50:56 <mattdm> oh, I guess there was https://github.com/Shells-com/linux-scripts/blob/master/oscfg/fedora.sh
18:50:59 <bcotton> when i surgery it together, ti does not appear to
18:51:07 <mattdm> which is the list of changes in very practical form.
18:51:27 <mattdm> so: let's try to get this sorted out for them, ideally _before_ our next business meeting unless we notice any concerns
18:51:50 <mattdm> but let's at least give people some time to check.
18:51:55 * bcotton_ intended to try it out this week but was consumed in metaphorical fires
18:52:13 <mattdm> the best kind of fires
18:52:20 <bcotton_> hey, welcome back my freenode connection :-)
18:52:21 <mattdm> unless you're trying to stay warm, in which case they are disappointing
18:52:39 <spot> man, i love it when setup tools like this start with "download this shell script from the internet and jam it into the env"
18:52:40 <jwf> Curious to get an update from dcantrell, x3mboy, bcotton_, and mattdm in the next meeting? :)
18:52:51 <x3mboy> Sure
18:52:54 <dcantrell> can do
18:53:05 <x3mboy> Once I got the account I will test it inmediately