15:00:14 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
15:00:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 10 15:00:14 2021 UTC.
15:00:14 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:14 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
15:00:19 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:26 <adamw> #topic Roll Call
15:00:32 <bittin> .hello bittin
15:00:32 <zodbot> bittin: bittin 'Luna Jernberg' <droidbittin@gmail.com>
15:00:54 <adamw> morning folks
15:01:00 <adamw> i've never seen people so excited to join a meeting :P
15:01:07 <bittin> good afternoon
15:01:15 * sumantro is here
15:01:21 <andi89gi> Morning
15:01:23 <barryjgriffin1> Hi all
15:01:31 <andi89gi> Good afternoon from Germany
15:01:32 <sumantro> morning all!
15:01:37 <bittin> Good afternoon from Sweden
15:02:48 <adamw> hello, europe
15:03:10 <tflink> morning
15:05:13 <adamw> welp, looks like that's everyone, so let's get going
15:05:18 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:06:45 <adamw> #info "adamw to ensure an update for #1942443 is done" - this did get done, the bug is still open for some related work but all cases of people not being able to login should be fixed now, i believe
15:07:03 <adamw> #info "adamw to ensure common bugs page gets updated" - this is done, thanks to everyone else who also contributed
15:07:21 <adamw> "bcotton to investigate akonadi failure after KDE upgrade to f34 and
15:07:21 <adamw> file a bug" - bcotton, are you around? how's this going?
15:07:43 <bittin> think he filed a bug during the meeting if i remember correctly
15:07:53 <bittin> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1953675
15:08:30 <bcotton> oh hey
15:09:09 <adamw> bittin: thanks
15:09:24 <bcotton> yes, i did file the bug. i haven't followed up on it. looks like it needs a poke
15:09:28 <bcotton> i will poke
15:09:29 <bittin> seems to be some database problems when updating from F33-> F34
15:10:00 <bittin> seems like someone found a workaround but not a real fix yet
15:10:07 <bittin> if i understand the Bugzilla comments correct
15:11:27 <adamw> i did see some input from someone who sounded like they knew what they were talking about
15:11:45 <bittin> thats a good start
15:12:04 <adamw> #info "bcotton to investigate akonadi failure after KDE upgrade to f34 and
15:12:05 <adamw> file a bug" - bug has been filed and is in progress, ben will give it a poke: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1953675
15:12:25 <adamw> ugh
15:12:28 <adamw> #undo
15:12:28 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by adamw at 15:12:04 : "bcotton to investigate akonadi failure after KDE upgrade to f34 and
15:12:57 <adamw> #info "bcotton to investigate akonadi failure after KDE upgrade to f34 and file a bug" - bug has been filed and is in progress, ben will give it a poke: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1953675
15:13:03 * bcotton has NEEDINFO'ed the assignee. If I don't see any progress by EOW, I'll propose it for a Prioritized Bug
15:13:21 <adamw> "coremodule and frantisekz to try and get heroes of fedora tooling working again so we can pick up those posts" - not sure if either of them checked in?
15:15:44 <sumantro> frantisekz actually updated thing tp python3
15:16:01 <adamw> yeah, i was trying to find that mail...
15:16:15 <adamw> ah, there it is
15:16:16 <bittin> #info frantisekz updated heroes of fedora things to Python 3
15:16:37 <adamw> bittin: you can't #info as you're not a chair :D
15:16:37 <bcotton> does that make frantisekz a Hero of Heroes of Fedora?
15:16:44 <bittin> ah
15:16:58 <bcotton> i think non-chairs can info? idk, i forget the zodbot acl maze
15:16:59 <sumantro> So we will have one post soon!
15:17:17 <adamw> #info "coremodule and frantisekz to try and get heroes of fedora tooling working again so we can pick up those posts" - frantisekz has filed a PR for updating qa-stats to python3, it is waiting on review at the moment: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/qa-stats/pull-request/1
15:17:24 <adamw> Ben Cotton: i guess we'll find out when we read the minutes
15:18:17 <adamw> alright, so let's get to Ben's topic first since the rest of the agenda's just standard stuff and this isa big one
15:18:59 <adamw> #topic Avoiding last-minute release crunches
15:19:37 <adamw> so for F34 we basically shipped an RC on five hours of testing, which is a thing we keep telling ourselves we won't do but seem to keep doing
15:19:48 <adamw> there is a discussion thread about ways to improve this at https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/guardrails-for-too-short-rc-to-go-no-go/29175
15:20:04 <adamw> anyone have any thoughts/suggestions/ideas on that topic?
15:21:39 <cmurf> i'm waffling on whether RC1 should arrive on the Friday night ET before G/NG
15:22:03 <adamw> iirc we have said a couple of times in the past that we'd just agree to no-go if the rc wasn't done by tuesday, or something like that
15:22:10 <adamw> but it's never really worked out that way
15:22:21 <cmurf> because we get three extra days testing out of that and there are weekend testers and weekday testers
15:22:49 <cmurf> yeah in the discussion there's consensus to set to to (effectively) Monday night ET before G/NG
15:23:19 <cmurf> but setting the cuttoff one business day sooner translates into three days more testing
15:23:26 <adamw> it seems to me that people are always fine to talk a good game about that right after release
15:23:36 <adamw> but no-one seems to mention it when it's wednesday, it's all "hey can we do an RC yet?"
15:24:14 <cmurf> well from my point of view i just assumed it wasn't happening
15:24:42 <cmurf> i was really surprised when the first RC showed up, what was it Wednesday morning?
15:25:14 <cmurf> but yeah no policy to blame for forcing the punt to the next week
15:26:44 <cmurf> it's not like it's not getting any testing just because it's not an RC yet, there's nightlies
15:28:18 <adamw> so it sounds like what's going to happen here is another round of "welp we for realsies this time will delay if RC isn't done by point X"
15:28:41 <cmurf> haha well if it's written into the wiki? yes
15:28:42 <adamw> any other thoughts on this, or are we ok with just letting that happen?
15:28:48 <cmurf> it's not in the wiki
15:29:23 <bcotton> yeah, that's my concern. we haven't documented this anywhere that i can tell
15:29:48 <bcotton> and my memory differs from adam's a bit because i have a memory of suggesting a tuesday deadline when we were doing...f29 maybe? and being told "nah, it's okay"
15:29:55 <cmurf> who wants to step in front of the slow rolling freight train? :D
15:30:15 <adamw> yeah, i could be wrong, i didn't write it down anywhere or anything
15:30:20 <bcotton> we want to give ourselves as much flexibility as we can, but we also have historically not done a great job of not being too flexible
15:32:14 <pwhalen> I could definitely use some help, given such a short turn around time. I need to test arm/aarch64 and iot (which also includes x86_64)
15:33:22 <bcotton> ignorant question, but is there room to start being more aggressive with nightlies testing (as if they were an RC) a few days earlier
15:33:48 <adamw> yeah, we've already been talking about that
15:33:57 <adamw> i've actually been sort of assuming people already were, but apparently not
15:33:59 <bcotton> that might relieve some of the pressure. i agree that we'd still want to stop the 5 hours from RC to go/no-go from happening again, but that might give us some room to relax the earlier requirements
15:34:02 <sumantro> bcotton, one way that we are thinking is to do test day/week with nightlies
15:34:12 <bittin> sumantro: +1
15:34:27 <adamw> i more or less stopped doing non-RC candidate composes for the last couple cycles because they're not really necessary any more, but apparently people didn't pick up on the idea that this means we need to test nightlies harder in freezes
15:34:34 <andi89gi> dummy question what's the issue about the RC etc.?
15:34:52 <andi89gi> It the issue about the time for release the RC?
15:35:14 <cmurf> deadline for creating the RC
15:35:21 <adamw> andi89gi: the issue is that giving ourselves a very small window between the RC build and the go/no-go decision puts people under a lot of pressure to test, and could lead to us missing bugs
15:35:30 <cmurf> and thus minimum testing time for the RC before go/no-go
15:37:33 <adamw> ok, so if anyone has further thoughts to add, please post to the discussion thread
15:37:37 <adamw> let's go onto the next topic
15:39:12 <adamw> #topic Outstanding proposals
15:39:35 <andi89gi> adamw: okay thx for explaining it! Now, I have understood it better
15:40:10 <adamw> #info the dual monitor criterion went to a "Final Version" which seems to have been acked by more or less everyone: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/Z7PSXUKWMLRUU6Q7REIGBXXQJLWBRF5B/
15:40:24 <adamw> #action lruzicka to put the dual-monitor criterion into production
15:40:31 <bittin> yay
15:42:24 <adamw> i don't think there's anything else outstanding?
15:44:42 <adamw> ok then
15:44:43 <adamw> #topic Test Day / community event status
15:44:46 <sumantro> All Fedora Linux 35 Test Day issues are logged in the tracker. More to be added as we move into the cycle.https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issues?status=Open&tags=test+days
15:44:46 <adamw> #chair sumantro
15:44:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw sumantro
15:44:51 <adamw> hey sumantro, where are we at?
15:45:03 <sumantro> Fedora Linux 35 - Call for Test Day is scheduled on community blog on 2021/05/13 at 8:00 am and the email on relevant list is already out
15:45:11 <sumantro> thanks bcotton
15:45:12 <bittin> sumantro: cool
15:45:15 <sumantro> bcotton++
15:45:20 <bittin> and the Fedora Kernel 5.12 test day is going on right now
15:45:22 <bittin> until 16th May
15:45:26 <sumantro> Kernel 5.12 Test Week is underway http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2021-05-09_Kernel_5.12_Test_Week. Please partcipate if you have time!
15:45:39 <sumantro> thanks bittin for helping folks and testing!
15:45:55 <sumantro> adamw thats the latest on Test Days!
15:46:10 <bittin> np :)
15:46:20 <lruzicka[m]> Adamw, yes I will
15:47:07 <andi89gi> yea I am participating on the Kernel Test Days ;)
15:47:19 <lruzicka[m]> Wanted to do so, but lost focus due other stuff.
15:47:30 <sumantro> andi89gi, thanks L(
15:48:04 <bittin> lruzicka[m]: still 7 days to go :)
15:48:05 <adamw> awesome, thanks sumantro and andi!
15:48:19 <andi89gi> sumantro: pleasure! :)
15:48:29 <lruzicka[m]> Bittin, why 7 days?
15:48:30 <sumantro> adamw, np!
15:48:37 <bittin> might be bad at testing later this week however for https://linuxappsummit.org/
15:48:46 <andi89gi> adamw, np!;)
15:49:08 <bittin> lruzicka[m]: ah sorry i missed some text, was talking about the Kernel 5.12 test day
15:49:08 <adamw> #info Fedora 35 call for test days will go out on Thursday
15:49:24 <adamw> #info Kernel 5.12 test week is ongoing, please join in if you can: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2021-05-09_Kernel_5.12_Test_Week
15:49:57 <bittin> irssi scrolled down to fast
15:51:54 <adamw> i was just recapping
15:51:55 <bittin> so Open Floor/AOB then?
15:52:02 <adamw> yup
15:52:07 <adamw> #topic Open floor
15:52:09 <adamw> anything else, folks?
15:53:31 <sumantro> nothing from my side!
15:53:36 <bittin> KDE and GNOME has an online conference this week: https://linuxappsummit.org/ not strictly related to Fedora testing, but might be an interesting event for Linux in general
15:53:49 <andi89gi> adamw: I have a noob question concerning Fedora Silverblue and helping with the test-updates or Kernel. I am a bit confused , if the commands are the same like on Fedora workstation?
15:54:16 <andi89gi> bittin: cool!
15:54:16 <bittin> well Fedora sponsors so
15:54:39 <adamw> andi89gi: ah, no, I don't think so. i'm not actually sure if you can just put an arbitrary kernel on silverblue unfortunately...anyone else know? i'm not the biggest expert on silverblue/ostree
15:54:52 <adamw> bittin: thanks for the heads up!
15:55:25 <bittin> its going on Wednesday - Saturday this week
15:55:45 <bittin> with the main talks starting on Thursday
15:55:47 <andi89gi> bittin: I will attend the summit
15:56:24 <bittin> same here
15:57:02 <andi89gi> adamw: thx - well, the kernel  testing is a bit "tricky". But in general testing new updates - I have thought that fedora-easy-karma --fas-username FAS-USERNAME  will work on Silverblue :D
15:59:19 <coremodule> missed the meeting, just want to say I'll have an F34 Heroes of Fedora post this week!
15:59:39 <bittin> coremodule: :)
15:59:55 <adamw> andi89gi: i'm not sure about that either :D but if it actually does give you updates to file feedback on, it's probably working
16:00:03 <adamw> coremodule: awesome, thanks
16:00:12 <adamw> ok, that's time...thanks for coming, everyone!
16:00:40 <bittin> no problem, same bat time, same bat channel in 1 or 2 weeks?
16:01:42 <bittin> cya then however, bye for now
16:02:07 <andi89gi> adamw: I will try it out :D
16:02:22 <andi89gi> cya
16:03:24 <adamw> #endmeeting