16:00:19 <StephenGallagher> #startmeeting ELN SIG 2021-11-05
16:00:20 <StephenGallagher> #meetingname eln
16:00:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Nov  5 16:00:19 2021 UTC.
16:00:20 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:00:20 <zodbot> The chair is StephenGallagher. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
16:00:20 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'eln_sig_2021-11-05'
16:00:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'eln'
16:00:20 <StephenGallagher> #topic Init Process
16:00:20 <StephenGallagher> Let's see how many people show up after I announced that the agenda would be documentation 😄
16:00:58 <cyberpear> .hi
16:00:59 <zodbot> cyberpear: cyberpear 'James Cassell' <fedoraproject@cyberpear.com>
16:01:03 <StephenGallagher> .hello sgallagh
16:01:05 <zodbot> StephenGallagher: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
16:01:09 <davdunc[m]> .hello2
16:01:10 <zodbot> davdunc[m]: Sorry, but user 'davdunc [m]' does not exist
16:01:25 <davdunc> .hello2
16:01:26 <zodbot> davdunc: davdunc 'David Duncan' <davdunc@amazon.com>
16:01:31 <davdunc> then!
16:02:10 <davdunc> thought I would come and join you.
16:02:11 <michel> .hello salimma
16:02:12 <zodbot> michel: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
16:02:21 <StephenGallagher> Good to see you all!
16:02:27 <michel> .hello davdunc
16:02:28 <zodbot> michel: davdunc 'David Duncan' <davdunc@amazon.com>
16:02:30 <dcavalca> .hi
16:02:31 <zodbot> dcavalca: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <dcavalca@fb.com>
16:02:55 <jforbes> .hello2
16:02:56 <zodbot> jforbes: jforbes 'Justin Forbes' <jforbes@redhat.com>
16:03:32 <StephenGallagher> #chair tdawson dcavalca Michel Alexandre Salim jforbes davdunc
16:03:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: Alexandre Michel Salim StephenGallagher davdunc dcavalca jforbes tdawson
16:03:58 <StephenGallagher> (So anyone can add a #info as needed)
16:04:23 <StephenGallagher> #topic ELN Documentation Refresh
16:04:56 <StephenGallagher> I spent some time earlier this week going through and updating the various tickets we have on https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/
16:05:23 <StephenGallagher> Many of them have actually been resolved over the last couple months, but I've been lax in keeping them updated.
16:06:00 <StephenGallagher> Of the ones that remain, most of them deal with shortcomings in the ELN documentation
16:06:20 <michel> sgallagh++ for going through those
16:06:20 <zodbot> michel: Karma for sgallagh changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:07:00 * tdawson is here now
16:08:00 <StephenGallagher> I've been largely focused on keeping the metaphorical lights on for the last month, but we're coming to a point where I (and my team at RHT) should have some more cycles to spend on ELN.
16:08:38 <StephenGallagher> However, I'd like to see about engaging the non-RHT members of the SIG to help out with some parts, particularly getting the documentation brought up to snuff.
16:08:50 <davdunc> @StephenGallagher cool. I am dedicating time this weekend to the imagefactory problem in Issue #19
16:09:29 <dcavalca> I'd been very constrained on bandwidth lately, but things are getting better, so we expect to pick up more ELN-related work going forward
16:09:39 <StephenGallagher> davdunc: That's great to hear! Please update the ticket once you have more information so we can follow along.
16:10:09 <dcavalca> specifically, we still plan to rig up an actual testing infra around ELN, with the hope to eventually feed some of its signal back upstream
16:10:19 <tdawson> Which parts of the documentation are in the greatest need of updating?
16:10:25 <StephenGallagher> dcavalca: Completely understood. I was hoping, however, that I could ask you to handle the doc request https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/33 regarding the Facebook mirror.
16:10:32 <dcavalca> sure thing
16:10:39 <StephenGallagher> Thank you
16:12:08 <StephenGallagher> tdawson: I'd say https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/9 should be the first priority.
16:12:28 <StephenGallagher> With https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/56 coming next
16:13:29 <tdawson> Well, issue 56 needs a proceedure first, before the documentation, or were you thinking of creating the documentation as you create the proceedure
16:13:40 <StephenGallagher> And I need to open a couple more, but we probably need to have documentation on how to install ELN (or run it in a container) for those who want to start playing with it.
16:13:59 <StephenGallagher> tdawson: I proposed the procedure on the mailing list months ago and it was largely accepted.
16:14:16 <StephenGallagher> So we mostly just need to get it updated and more fleshed out.
16:15:02 <tdawson> Oh, I see it, yep, forgot about it :)
16:15:14 <StephenGallagher> So had I :-/
16:15:44 <StephenGallagher> I'm sure that we'll come up with edge cases during the process of documenting it,of course.
16:16:30 <tdawson> If bookwar[m] isn't able to get to issue #9, I can work on that.
16:16:57 <StephenGallagher> At this point, I think bookwar 's dance card is pretty full, so I would appreciate that.
16:17:42 <StephenGallagher> #action dcavalca will document how to access ELN mirrors
16:18:02 <StephenGallagher> #action tdawson will document the ways in which ELN differs from Rawhide.
16:18:34 <StephenGallagher> #action sgallagh will open a ticket on how to get started running ELN and self-assign it.
16:19:13 <StephenGallagher> Does anyone else see a major gap in our documentation that we should look into while we're on this?
16:20:56 <StephenGallagher> I will take that as a "no"
16:21:04 <tdawson> I'm betting there are more FAQ's ... or actaully, I think that is what #9 is about.
16:21:07 <StephenGallagher> #topic Open Floor
16:21:56 <tdawson> Nothing from me
16:22:11 <StephenGallagher> Oh, I do have two small things.
16:22:40 <StephenGallagher> 1. I'm pleased to say that we have had successful composes every night for over a week!
16:23:43 <davdunc[m]> I don't have whoo hoo!
16:23:52 <davdunc[m]> upps.
16:24:07 <tdawson> Ya!!
16:24:07 <davdunc[m]> two messages together. jUst whoohoo.
16:24:12 <StephenGallagher> 2. Some of you may have seen the announcement of the Fedora Infra outage next week. One of the big reasons for this is that Fedora is migrating from its z13 s390x systems to z15. This should allow us to finally finish up https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/16
16:24:40 <tdawson> double Ya!!!
16:25:31 <StephenGallagher> #info Composes haven't broken in over a week!
16:25:34 <davdunc> nice.
16:25:51 <StephenGallagher> #info Next week's Infrastructure Outage should pave the way for s390x container images in ELN
16:26:27 <StephenGallagher> That's all I had. The floor is open if anyone else has a topic they'd like to raise.
16:27:14 <davdunc> Nothing else from me.
16:27:15 <dcavalca> the only thing on my side is that, as we'd mentioned before, we'll need a way to add additional packages to eln-extra down the road
16:27:31 <dcavalca> not a blocker right now, but it'll likely start becoming one next year
16:27:46 <StephenGallagher> dcavalca: Could you open a ticket on that?
16:27:56 <tdawson> dcavalca: Do you want me to document that while I'm in the documentation zone?
16:28:06 <dcavalca> tdawson: yes, getting this documented would be great
16:28:15 <dcavalca> I know you'd built the workflow already but wasn't sure of the current state of things
16:28:23 <StephenGallagher> It shouldn't be particularly hard.
16:28:24 <dcavalca> StephenGallagher: sure, I can file a ticket
16:28:50 <StephenGallagher> tdawson: Do you happen to know if Content Resolver can give us the delta of it compared to ELN?
16:28:54 <michel> was it this? https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/45
16:28:58 <StephenGallagher> That might be the main sticking point.
16:29:03 <StephenGallagher> Oh, you're right.
16:29:12 <tdawson> StephenGallagher: It already does -
16:29:19 <StephenGallagher> Perfect
16:29:25 <tdawson> https://tiny.distro.builders/view--view-eln-extras.html
16:29:35 <StephenGallagher> Michel Alexandre Salim: Sort of. That was specifically about enabling it in Content Resolver.
16:29:41 <dcavalca> https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/69
16:29:42 <StephenGallagher> We need to actually start building and composing it
16:30:24 <StephenGallagher> I'd also like for us (maybe dcavalca and tdawson ) to talk with the EPEL folks, because I'd like for ELN-extras to auto-branch for EPEL N+1 in the future.
16:31:10 <dcavalca> StephenGallagher: wanna come to the next EPEL meeting? this is probably something worth discussing with the wider group there
16:31:14 <dcavalca> but in general, it seems reasonable to me
16:31:20 <tdawson> Only if someone is willing to maintain it.
16:31:21 <michel> that will be awesome. when I opened the original ticket that was my concern too, that bootstrapping EPEL is time consuming
16:31:23 <StephenGallagher> And with that in mind, we'd want to document and socialize that well in advance.
16:32:05 <StephenGallagher> tdawson: Well, that's part of documenting it. I'd like for our message to be "ELN-extras is to EPEL as ELN is to RHEL"
16:32:31 <StephenGallagher> So if someone puts a package in there, they're committing to maintain it in EPEL, unless they retire it prior to the branch.
16:32:53 <StephenGallagher> (Or provides some other sort of opt-out)
16:33:04 <tdawson> Yep, but that also is one of the ELN to RHEL transitions and pain points ... getting people to maintain all the packages.
16:33:38 <tdawson> People, like me, don't mind doing KDE.  But ... do I really want to support all those little python packages needed to maintain my packages.
16:33:40 <StephenGallagher> Fair point, and one that we need to explore at length, I think
16:34:08 <michel> oh, it's nice if a package getting onboarded to RHEL is first signaled by moving it from ELN-next -> ELN
16:34:26 <michel> because sometimes now EPEL maintainers only find out when they get ticketed saying "please retire"
16:34:38 <tdawson> It's all those behind the scenes packages that nobody want..
16:35:09 <tdawson> michel: Oh, you've missed alot of EPEL meetings.  There is now a RHEL proceedure that let's us know when they first start working on it.
16:35:25 <StephenGallagher> https://xkcd.com/2347/
16:35:26 <michel> oh nice!
16:35:54 <tdawson> We (RHEL or EPEL) haven't had a package to test it in the real world yet, but they've tested it on other packages.
16:36:16 <tdawson> But I do agree, having something change from ELN-Next to ELN would give us alot of heads up time.
16:36:44 <StephenGallagher> I hadn't considered that angle, but it's certainly a benefit.
16:38:27 <StephenGallagher> OK, anything else on this or other topics?
16:39:41 <StephenGallagher> In that case, thank you for coming! I'll give back 20 minutes of your time.
16:39:55 <dcavalca> thanks StephenGallagher
16:39:58 <tdawson> Thank you StephenGallagher
16:40:03 <StephenGallagher> #endmeeting