17:00:23 <pboy> #startmeeting fedora-server
17:00:23 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun  1 17:00:23 2022 UTC.
17:00:23 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:23 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:23 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:23 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-server'
17:00:32 <pboy> #topic Welcome / roll call
17:00:41 <pboy> Welcome to our Server WG IRC meeting today!
17:00:50 <pboy> Please, everybody who is lurking, say either .hello2 or .hello <fasname>
17:00:57 <pboy> I’ll post the agenda in a few minutes.
17:01:57 <pboy> Unfortunately, some members have had to cancel. Let's see how many we are today.
17:03:12 <eseyman> .hello2 eseyman
17:03:13 <zodbot> eseyman: eseyman 'Emmanuel Seyman' <emmanuel@seyman.fr>
17:03:21 <eseyman> hello, everybody
17:03:30 <pboy> Welcome eseyman
17:03:42 <mowest> .hello2 mowest
17:03:43 <zodbot> mowest: mowest 'Steve Daley' <mowest@vivaldi.net>
17:04:01 <pboy> Welcome mowest
17:06:34 <pboy> Well, we are 3 approved members, so we meet the quorum and can start
17:06:50 <pboy> I'll post the agenda now.
17:06:58 <pboy> #topic Agenda
17:07:07 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/report/Meeting
17:07:14 <pboy> #info Follow up actions
17:07:21 <pboy> #info Change proposal about GPT as default partitioning for bios boot
17:07:28 <pboy> #info Planning for Fedora 37: Additional changes to discuss?  (continued)
17:07:36 <pboy> #info How to proceed with Cockpit File Sharing module NFS part
17:07:42 <pboy> #info Open Floor
17:07:51 <pboy> Any additional topic ?
17:08:06 <eseyman> I'm good
17:08:12 <pboy> OK.
17:08:19 <pboy> #topic  Follow up actions
17:08:24 <mowest> I'm good as well, lots outside of my wheel house today.
17:08:29 <pboy> #info DONE Post on devel list thread F37 proposed change to GPT as default partitioning schema about the regression regarding software raid installations.
17:08:37 <pboy> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/DIU6IKPCPD2BXDUFDZUZ2G2ZQNT5JW57/
17:08:47 <pboy> We'll come to that next topic.
17:08:54 <pboy> #info DONE: Created an issue containing 2 test cases for biosboot GPT software raid installations
17:09:01 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/87
17:09:13 <pboy> #info DONE created a stub of NFS server installation and Cockpit for administration:
17:09:20 <pboy> #link https://docs.stg.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-server/service-filesharing-nfs-administration-cockpit/
17:09:29 <pboy> #info Created Change proposal to add Server VM is still processing
17:09:29 <pboy> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Supplement-server-by-kvm-vm-image
17:09:38 <pboy> Anything new about „default hostname“?
17:09:51 <eseyman> humm... I might take that documentation for a spin
17:10:04 <pboy> #info ONGOING: discussion about changes around the default hostname configuration
17:10:23 <pboy> eseyman: would be good.
17:10:39 <pboy> But let's proceed with the first topic:
17:10:47 <pboy> #topic Change proposal about GPT as default partitioning for bios boot
17:10:54 <pboy> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GPTforBIOSbyDefault
17:10:55 <eseyman> #info ONGOING: review of the dnsmasq documentation
17:11:18 <pboy> eseyman +1
17:11:47 <pboy> I have to reply, yes
17:12:03 <pboy> back to topic
17:12:06 <eseyman> still working on the Ansible playbook
17:12:40 <pboy> even better. Would be nice to a first cut soon.
17:13:06 <pboy> anything else I forgot?
17:13:17 <eseyman> I don't think so
17:13:29 <pboy> OK, continue with topic.
17:13:30 <eseyman> let's go back to GPT
17:13:43 <pboy> The Change is accepted.
17:13:50 <pboy> We now have the problem of preserving our users from  harm unfortunately done intentionally or, at best, negligently
17:13:57 <pboy> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/VSM473WRHKIIIJYZZCVXAO7XFS4ACHPH/
17:14:43 <pboy> Stephen Gallagher  start to propose a blocker status to calm down the damage as good as possible.
17:14:51 <pboy> Any idea?
17:15:26 <sgallagh> If accepted by QA as a blocker, it will have to be fixed (or the Change reverted) in order to ship Fedora.
17:15:46 <pboy> sgallagh ++1
17:16:03 <eseyman> it would be nice if we could get input from the Change owners who are part of the SIG
17:16:16 <pboy> +1
17:16:28 <eseyman> anyway, +1 to submitting a QA blocker
17:17:32 <pboy> I'm a bit angry, I must say. Causing a lot ofissues and then disappear into oblivion.
17:19:04 <pboy> Is there anything we can do to better achieve blocker status?
17:19:36 <eseyman> I have to admit I find Neal's "Yeah, there are a number of ways to skin this." to be a bit cavalier
17:20:42 <pboy> to say it at best, yes
17:21:43 <eseyman> pboy: there's a bugzilla bug for your usecase, isn't there?
17:21:57 <pboy> eseyman: what use case?
17:22:30 <mowest> Since this seems to be tied to "deprecating BIOS support in F37" and I believe that has been placed on the back burner, is this change request also best placed on the back burner?
17:22:58 <eseyman> software RAID over multiple disks
17:23:05 <pboy> mowest, I think there is no connection
17:23:58 <mowest> I read the connection under the heading "Benefit to Fedora" at this link = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/GPTforBIOSbyDefault
17:24:04 <pboy> eseyman: yes, there are 2 bugzilla entries, one by ngompa, one by sgallagh recurring to our issue 8? (don't know the exact nume
17:24:05 <pboy> ber
17:24:50 <eseyman> ok so we're good
17:25:16 <pboy> Maybe we can agree about something like: Server WG agrees with sgallah suggestion to block the GPT change until the Anaconda issue is resolved.
17:25:44 <eseyman> yes
17:25:49 <mowest> Yes, I can agree with that.
17:27:03 <pboy> #proposed Server WG agrees with sgallah's suggestion to block the change until the Anaconda issue is resolved  and considers it as most essential.
17:27:17 <cmurf> i agree with the logic except for one thing - we don't have a release criterion at all for degraded boot working out of the box
17:27:53 <pboy> cmurf: it's not just degraded, but a regression
17:28:16 <pboy> #agreed Server WG agrees with sgallah suggestion to block the change until the Anaconda issue is resolved  and considers it as most essential.
17:28:28 <cmurf> doesn't matter if it's a regression if there isn't a release criterion to cover it
17:28:28 <cmurf> and it's strictly speaking not a regression, it's two different configurations: the one with MBR works the one with GPT doesn't
17:29:45 <pboy> It Is an action that hinders our users and at best makes them choose another distribution. This is the crucial point.
17:30:16 <pboy> And it is intentional nd without without urgent need
17:31:36 <eseyman> perhaps we can move on to another topic?
17:31:54 <pboy> Any comment?  Otherwise let's proceed with our agenda
17:32:04 <pboy> OK, let's proceed
17:32:17 <pboy> #topic Planning for Fedora 37: Additional changes to discuss? (continued)
17:32:20 <cmurf> well except that the bootloader team wants to drop BIOS entirely which includes dropping MBR entirely
17:32:30 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/79
17:32:40 <pboy> For part of the discussion we have a new tracking issue: #88
17:32:51 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/88)
17:33:03 <pboy> And we have a new bug with installation media:
17:33:10 <pboy> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2088730
17:33:35 <mowest> The link to issue #88 doesn't exist.
17:34:25 <pboy> I think, we should postpone #88 to F38, because I suppose we can't manage it  until freeze. It's too much.
17:34:50 <pboy> mowest: wait, I look
17:35:27 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/88
17:35:28 <eseyman> issues #54 and #55 seem doable for F37
17:36:13 <mowest> I think you are right that #88 has too many parts to accomplish before the freeze.
17:36:47 <eseyman> yes
17:37:26 <pboy> Regarding #54 and #55: I suppose we would have to modify the media. It is a bit tricky and needs a lot of testing.
17:37:58 <pboy> I would prefer to start as soon as possible, but w/o the stress of the upcomming freeze
17:38:11 <pboy> And the change proposal, and ....
17:38:53 <mowest> #55 can probably be laid to rest much to my disappointment. I love vim, but I also believe that it would be best for the default cli editor to match the default for Workstation.
17:39:44 <mowest> I have to leave for an appointment, but agree with the thoughts expressed on #88 so far.
17:39:59 <eseyman> I think both should be installed but that nano should be the default
17:40:01 <pboy> mowest: we discussed to add an option in the interactive installation screeen to switch to vim.
17:40:57 <pboy> eseyman of course, both installed as they currently are. But add the option during installation to switch. That was our discussion so far.
17:41:09 <mowest> @pboy: Ok, perhaps I am still for this as long as the default if no change is selected is the same as Workstation.
17:41:48 <pboy> mowest: no change for workstation, of cource. For their users nano is the better option, I think too
17:42:21 <cmurf> note that nano by default was a system wide change it wasn't specific to desktops
17:43:06 <eseyman> yes, that's why, if we want to default to vim, we should announce it and explain why
17:43:07 <pboy> cmurf: yes, nobody want's to change that. It is just about an additional option.
17:43:23 <cmurf> i'm not sure if it's an important enough difference to be of interest by the cockpit team, i.e. would they consider it useful to have a menu for choosing a preferred editor? i don't know
17:43:34 <eseyman> I'm okay with an installation option
17:44:08 <pboy> cmurf good to know, we can ask.
17:44:32 <cmurf> as in a ui option in the installer that causes vim-default-editor to replace nano-default-editor?
17:45:04 <cmurf> since the installer is going through a ui change now i think there's no chance of installer ui changes right now, i'm not even sure where that would belong
17:45:40 <pboy> cmurf yes, that way. To spare the experienced sysadmin to remeber later to make the switch.
17:45:41 <cmurf> sorry that was confusing: no chance of getting it in the old ui, but maybe a chance of getting in the new ui. that'd be a question for the anaconda team
17:46:50 <pboy> Yes, I remember. Anaconda sent a mail for early testers, some days ago.
17:47:25 <pboy> Well, I suppose we agree to postpone #88 to F 38 ?
17:47:41 <eseyman> I'm afraid so
17:47:54 <cmurf> i think #88 relates to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2088730
17:48:06 <cmurf> so you might need to figure out what additional linux firmware can be dropped
17:48:27 <cmurf> it's really becoming a hassle multiple times per release cycle as this package gets bigger and bigger with no end in sight
17:48:42 <cmurf> there is a longer term idea to better deal with linux-firmware but i'm not sure it'll be ready for f37
17:48:56 <pboy> No, #88 is not related to the installation media issue.
17:50:05 <pboy> I hope, Adam will take care about the media issue, again. He did it last time with bravour
17:50:55 <pboy> Anything regarding the postpone proposal?
17:51:13 <pboy> #agreed Issue #88 is postponed to F38
17:51:48 <pboy> Regarding the installation media issue I'll ask Adam. So we can discuss that next meeting.
17:52:50 <pboy> So, I think we will not have to discuss about changes in Server for F37 (besides the already decided VM).
17:53:06 <pboy> Next issue about F37 is to improve testing.
17:53:22 <pboy> That's a topic for next meeting.
17:53:49 <pboy> Anything else for the current topic?
17:54:18 <pboy> OK, I switch
17:54:27 <pboy> #topic How to proceed with Cockpit File Sharing module
17:54:28 <eseyman> no, I'm good
17:54:36 <pboy> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/86
17:54:46 <pboy> As discussed I created 2 documentation stub regarding the NFS part that we needs to complete
17:55:10 <pboy> We are nearly out of time. So let's consider how we could proceed?
17:56:46 <pboy> OK, may be it is better to discuss that on mailing list. We are too short of time now.
17:56:58 <pboy> Any objection to switch to open floor?
17:57:02 <eseyman> nope
17:57:09 <pboy> OK
17:57:18 <pboy> #topic Open Floor
17:57:51 <pboy> Does someone has a comment / info / anything else here?
17:58:17 <eseyman> I need to get back to my lemonldap review so that we can get it in the distribution
17:58:25 <eseyman> and that's all for me
17:58:29 <pboy> eseyman +1
17:58:42 <pboy> So, let's close for now.
17:58:54 <pboy> Bye bye, and thanks for comming.
17:59:02 <pboy> #endmeeting