14:00:48 <mattdm> #startmeeting Council (2022-07-06)
14:00:48 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul  6 14:00:48 2022 UTC.
14:00:48 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:48 <zodbot> The chair is mattdm. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
14:00:48 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2022-07-06)'
14:00:48 <mattdm> #meetingname council
14:00:48 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
14:00:48 <mattdm> #chair sumantrom dcantrell siddharthvipul1 riecatnor spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom marianab bt0 t0xic0der
14:00:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bt0 dcantrell marianab mattdm riecatnor siddharthvipul1 spot sumantrom t0xic0der
14:00:48 <mattdm> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
14:01:16 <dcantrell> .hello2
14:01:17 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
14:01:33 <riecatnor[m]> .hello riecatnor
14:01:34 <zodbot> riecatnor[m]: riecatnor 'Marie Nordin' <mnordin@redhat.com>
14:01:34 <mattdm> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
14:01:41 <mattdm> i think zodbot is being slow?
14:01:47 <mattdm> eh, whatever. hi everyone!
14:01:55 <dcantrell> hi
14:01:57 <riecatnor[m]> hulllooo :)
14:02:06 <mattdm> ben won't be here today because he's got family to take care of so I am running this one
14:02:11 <mattdm> weird i know
14:02:31 <mattdm> I hope sumantro can make it as the first meeting this time around
14:02:44 <mattdm> and Conan Kudo if you're around for the kde topic?
14:03:47 <Eighth_Doctor> ?
14:03:54 <Eighth_Doctor> I'm kinda here, in another meeting
14:04:11 <riecatnor[m]> sumantro: is probably busy running a Fedora Hatch in Pune today :)
14:04:12 <mattdm> Conan Kudo: is it better if we make that the first topic or hold off a bit?
14:04:18 <mattdm> oh, fair! hope that goes well!
14:04:22 <Eighth_Doctor> hold off
14:04:26 <mattdm> ok.
14:04:49 <mattdm> also, hmmm, we are not exactly at quorum
14:05:33 <dcantrell> it is a week of many people taking time off
14:05:55 <mattdm> Yeah, I guess so, although many not in the US too. Maybe we need to find another time?
14:06:29 <dcantrell> perhaps.  if we're expecting Brno people, it's the week that nearly everyone I know there is on PTO
14:06:44 <riecatnor[m]> we can't skip the nest topic tho ;)
14:07:17 <mattdm> yeah. Let's run through the topics quickly and make it short
14:07:27 <mattdm> #topic mattdm action item followups
14:07:46 <mattdm> 1. Need to fix the ticket2discourse bot. Not sure what's broken. But the concept seems good and I want to keep it.
14:08:07 <mattdm> 2. I have a PR re: historical policies for council docs that I need to actually submit
14:08:16 <mattdm> 3. Ben has a thing he was going to write, but it can wait
14:08:26 <mattdm> #topic Fedora Workstation PRD
14:08:44 <mattdm> this wasn't on the agenda, but
14:08:45 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/402
14:09:14 <mattdm> this has the three +1 votes -- minimum required -- and no objections, so I'm going to mark it as approved.
14:09:20 <spot> pls do. :)
14:09:29 <mattdm> I woudl have liked to see more discussion, but ... that's a bigger topic
14:09:33 <mattdm> oh hi spot!
14:09:34 <dcantrell> +1 from me
14:10:28 <mattdm> thanks! okay done.
14:11:05 <mattdm> #topic Council at Nest
14:11:15 <mattdm> Marie you want to talk?
14:11:25 <mattdm> I mean here, not at Nest. You have plenty at Nest already
14:12:06 <riecatnor[m]> sure!
14:12:14 <riecatnor[m]> so, in the past we have done a Council session of some kind
14:12:20 <riecatnor[m]> we should do that again :)
14:12:34 <dcantrell> sounds reasonable
14:12:35 <riecatnor[m]> fesco and mindshare have already submitted sessions too, so we have peer pressure to do something ;)
14:13:03 <riecatnor[m]> it would be lovely if someone (other than myself) could submit a proposal for the session
14:13:09 <riecatnor[m]> "Fedora Council Townhall"
14:13:30 <riecatnor[m]> here is what we did the past two years: https://pagure.io/flock/issues?status=all&search_pattern=council&close_status=
14:14:23 <mattdm> Would either spot or dcantrell like to volunteer to submit the talk and act as MC? :)
14:14:24 <riecatnor[m]> The deadline for proposals is July 8th (this friday)
14:14:34 <riecatnor[m]> tho we might extend that into next week depending on what comes in the next couple days
14:14:49 <mattdm> I can also pick on someone who didn't make the meeting here but I figure I'll start there :)
14:15:49 <mattdm> I think since we're expecting a LOT of new people it would be nice to also have, like, five minutes explaining what the council is. But I can do that off-the-cuff if no one else is excited to do so :)
14:16:10 <riecatnor[m]> riecatnor[m]: on that note: if you know of a group/someone doing cool stuff in Fedora, please please please encourage them to submit a session :D
14:17:19 <riecatnor[m]> I have been reaching out to some teams on the "Mindshare side" of Fedora- I have less reach on the "fesco" side of Fedora, so I need support on this :)
14:17:28 <dcantrell> I would volunteer but I actually have vacation planned that first week of august, so I will not be joining nest for its entirety
14:17:42 <mattdm> Yeah, I was going to get there. :) We need more. We might finally be hitting the wall on being the most exciting and energizing virtual conference
14:18:07 <mattdm> dcantrell: If we have it saturday would that work for you?
14:18:27 <riecatnor[m]> mattdm: worst thing that happens is we have a shorter program each day
14:18:32 <dcantrell> possibly, I need to check the schedule.  we're actually going to be moving between 3 different points in NY so I may be on the road or not
14:18:33 <mattdm> That's good to know for having you in attendance even if you don't want to MC
14:18:52 <dcantrell> let me check our detailed schedule and let you know if saturday will work
14:19:24 <dcantrell> as an aside, I would prefer in person conferences again.  for the entirety of my fesco and council membership, everything has been this virtual remote stuff and it's really getting tiring
14:19:58 <mattdm> That sounds good. Can I #action bcotton^H^H^H^H^H^H^H dcantrell to do the ticket, and if you can't make it work we'll volunteer someone else to MC?
14:20:33 <dcantrell> open the ticket for the council session?
14:20:58 <dcantrell> I can do that
14:21:12 <mattdm> And, yeah, I am also realllly wanting to get back to in person. But on the other hand: my RH direct team (Mike, not the Fedora team) had a f2f in Westford, and afterwards 2 out of 10 tested positive for Covid
14:21:13 <mattdm> dcantrell: thank you!
14:22:00 <mattdm> But I hear you on virtual conferences. So far, I've been amazingly surprised with how good Nest has been, and I hope we can get it feeling that way again.
14:22:28 <mattdm> And I guess ALSO on the other side of "that said", I'm going to take the risk and go to the Hatch in Rochester later this month....
14:23:04 <mattdm> That's the closest one to us unless someone else has snuck one in when I wasn't looking :)
14:23:30 <dcantrell> yeah, I really don't care anymore and am tired of living in a cave.  last summer I started coming back in to the office daily.  I ride the T every day.  I got my vaccine and booster and have never tested positive for covid, nor has anyone in my family.  I'm not saying I won't ever, but I am done being terrified
14:23:57 <riecatnor[m]> i am looking forward to conferences in person again, for sure!
14:24:16 <riecatnor[m]> I could write up a whole thing on this (and i probably should) but virtual events have been REALLY good for Fedora overall
14:24:32 <riecatnor[m]> a lot more people feel very connected to Fedora- people who could never come to an in person conference
14:24:46 <mattdm> riecatnor: yes I'd love that writeup
14:24:54 <riecatnor[m]> if we look at the majority of who could make it to Flock... its not a very diverse crowd unfortunately
14:25:17 <riecatnor[m]> virtual events provides a lot more people a rich experience to participate and feel close to core fedora contributors
14:25:39 <riecatnor[m]> for example.. first release party: 350 registrations.. latest release party: 950 registrations
14:26:08 <riecatnor[m]> we are experiencing growth with the virtual events as well.. its really cool actually
14:26:17 <mattdm> Yeah. It's been awesome and a huge success. But the in-person connection is vital too. All of those late-night city explorations and stuff. Need to find some way to find a balance.
14:26:29 <riecatnor[m]> totally agree on that, mattdm
14:26:35 <mattdm> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/hatch-with-fedora/
14:27:42 <mattdm> FWIW: as mentioned, Hatch Pune is happening right now. Cork, Ireland next week. Then Rochester, NY USA. Then Mexico City. Then Brno after flock.
14:28:08 <mattdm> But anyway. Back to the agenda!
14:28:33 <mattdm> #topic KDE Patronage?
14:28:40 <mattdm> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/406
14:29:30 <mattdm> Conan Kudo opened this. It's split from the sponsorship of Akademy conference
14:30:32 <mattdm> Neal had asked for a higher level of sponorship there to help boost our standing and involvement, and I felt (maybe not just me, but at least me LOL) that it was better to separate the conference sponorship from the higher level partnership
14:30:39 <mattdm> So here we are :)
14:31:07 <riecatnor[m]> I am open to this, though I wonder how many general "patronage" type requests we've gotten in the past.. what we could expect in the future if we do this one.. basically I think we need to identify a strategy around this type of request
14:31:43 <spot> I agree with riecatnor[m]. Having a rubric for when we say yes/no would be valuable here.
14:31:47 <mattdm> Yeah. Red Hat does fund various open source projects, even sometimes ones which aren't clearly directly related to RH product. (OBS for example, although I think that was a one-off)
14:31:58 <dcantrell> I agree with riecatnor[m] on this.  I'm not opposed to a KDE Patron membership though
14:32:05 <mattdm> And I don't want Fedora funds to become a proxy for "Red Hat really should care but doesn't seem to"
14:32:14 <spot> +1 to mattdm
14:32:49 <riecatnor[m]> would it make sense to bring this request to Red Hat?
14:33:09 <mattdm> But if we can do something that really makes sense in Fedora space, yeah. KDE has long been an important and popular part of Fedora.
14:33:11 <dcantrell> mattdm: though this request seems to fall directly in to that category
14:33:43 <mattdm> dcantrell: The "Red Hat shoudl care" category?
14:34:39 <dcantrell> in a way, yes.  the concern I'm thinking of is RH clearly funds GNOME more and then Fedora joins as a KDE Patron.  that needs to be communicated in a positive way because it could unravel quickly
14:35:17 <spot> I think the line for me would be "if Fedora is subtracted from Red Hat, does Red Hat still care", but I agree that in this specific situation, there is historical and political sensitivity.
14:35:36 <mattdm> spot can you elaborate on that scary-sounding line? :)
14:35:48 <spot> GNOME started because of KDE's licensing choice.
14:35:55 <dcantrell> right, that's my concern
14:35:56 <spot> I mean, there's way more nuance to it than that.
14:35:59 <dcantrell> sure
14:36:01 <spot> but thats the 50K view
14:36:03 <dcantrell> but to sum it up as a headline
14:36:54 <spot> It was also 20 years ago. It might be worthwhile to get an opinion from the Workstation folks.
14:37:01 <dcantrell> I think that would be a good idea
14:37:40 <mattdm> Does anyone want to draft up a straw-person for the general rubric?
14:37:52 <dcantrell> I also only follow KDE news type things now and I've noticed a Qt licensing change and/or source availability change again, but maybe that's not a problem now?  That has happened multiple times with Qt and it's a problem per Fedora policy
14:38:03 <mattdm> I'd like to hear from the Mobility people too -- not sure if there's any progress on  that.
14:38:30 <dcantrell> I already got voluntold for the nest proposal, so I think spot should take this one
14:38:34 <dcantrell> :)
14:38:56 <mattdm> That does seem, well, not fair. But the exact right kind of unfair!
14:39:20 <spot> If you want it to be done before 2025, I do not recommend you put this on my plate.
14:39:35 <dcantrell> hahaha
14:39:38 * spot is really really underwater with life and work at the moment.
14:39:48 <mattdm> Okay, fair. Marie and I are feeling the same way. That's another topic though.
14:39:53 <mattdm> Yeahhhhhh.
14:40:11 <mattdm> My daughter yesterday requested we move to a planet with 30 hour days
14:40:22 <spot> that would be nice. for the first two weeks. :D
14:40:43 <mattdm> In her version of this the extra 6 hours are sleep.
14:40:52 <dcantrell> did you hear about that new restaurant NASA opened on the moon?  it's got great food, but no atmosphere
14:40:52 <spot> I think it would be beneficial for the rubric to be written by someone @ Red Hat.
14:41:07 <spot> Their OSPO may even have one that could be repurposed.
14:41:10 <mattdm> In any case, here's my next steps:
14:41:21 <mattdm> 1. Create a linked discourse topic, summarize this a bit
14:41:26 <mattdm> 2. Fix my bot?
14:41:54 <mattdm> 3. Point the KDE SIG, Workstation WG, and Mobility SIG at the topic
14:42:08 <mattdm> 4. Find someone to write that general rubric
14:42:27 <mattdm> 5. But even while that's a draft, kind of get a sense on where we think this _should_ fit
14:42:42 <mattdm> 6. Make a decision on the rubric
14:42:57 <mattdm> 7. Use that to make a decision on KDE patronage in specific
14:43:10 <mattdm> Anyone want to add or subtract? :)
14:44:19 <riecatnor[m]> i think somewhere in there is talk to folks at Red Hat about resources(monetary and/or potential rubric draft?)
14:44:35 <riecatnor[m]> OSPO seems like a good place to start
14:44:54 <mattdm> 6.5: Matthew and/or Marie talk to RH OSPO
14:45:22 <mattdm> (Possibly worth talking to RH Automotive too ... I'm not sure if qt ends up being important there or not. I'm not sure if they're sure TBH.)
14:45:47 <mattdm> #action mattdm to make discourse topic for KDE, and then some other stuff follows.
14:45:53 <mattdm> I think that's a good start for now.
14:46:06 <mattdm> #topic Announcements, communications and stuff?
14:46:11 <riecatnor[m]> oh yes, I have something
14:46:11 <Eighth_Doctor> hmm I'm back now
14:46:26 <riecatnor[m]> ope. i can wait if Conan Kudo has things for the last topic :)
14:46:26 <mattdm> Conan Kudo: See you in the discussion thread I'm going to open :)
14:46:43 <mattdm> I'm looking at the clock I think let's move on
14:46:47 <riecatnor[m]> okies
14:47:21 <riecatnor[m]> its VERY bittersweet for me, but I am moving on from the FCAIC role.. if you haven't seen the magazine post.. here it is
14:47:23 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-job-opening-community-action-and-impact-coordinator-fcaic/
14:47:43 <riecatnor[m]> if you know of someone who would be a good fit for the role, please encourage them to apply
14:48:13 <mattdm> I'll save the big thank yous for when you're actually officially done, but also thank you :)
14:48:21 <riecatnor[m]> I plan to stay involved in some respective corners, badges (of course ;)) and the DEI team
14:48:42 <riecatnor[m]> also I will stick around for some of the work around the CoC/mod guidelines that I kicked off
14:50:00 <riecatnor[m]> after some time.. i'd consider running for Mindshare and/or the council as well :)
14:50:48 <spot> riecatnor[m]: thank you for all your hard work in that role!
14:51:02 <mattdm> We tend to get candidates with Fedora experience but not necessarily in this kind of role. That can be awesome, but I'd also like to see some folks in the candidate pool with good experience in other communities. Possibly even not software communities, if they are interested and willing to figure it out.
14:51:32 <mattdm> So think about your network as broadly as possible :)
14:51:45 <mattdm> Any other announcements?
14:51:53 <mattdm> I guess the Hatch and Nest stuff we already mentioned
14:52:03 <riecatnor[m]> one more thing
14:52:04 <mattdm> #info see earlier in this meeting about Hatch and Nest
14:52:33 <riecatnor[m]> we are looking for folks who will be at GUADEC to help out with staffing a Fedora table
14:52:34 <q5sys> <riecatnor[m]> "its VERY bittersweet for me, but..." <- Sad to see you go, but Im sure you'll do great things in your next position.
14:52:34 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/anyone-going-to-guadec-and-wants-to-staff-a-fedora-table/40256
14:52:59 <riecatnor[m]> there will also be virtual office hours at GUADEC (info to come)
14:53:32 <riecatnor[m]> riecatnor[m]: if you or someone you know will be at GUADEC please send them the link and ask them to comment if they are interested in helping out
14:53:35 <mattdm> This is one that I wasn't ready for in person yet when planning travel. I hope next time, though!
14:54:16 <mattdm> okay, and...
14:54:26 <mattdm> #topic Open Floor, and anything else....
14:55:03 <riecatnor[m]> nest with fedora registration is open!
14:55:04 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://hopin.com/events/nest-with-fedora-2022/registration
14:55:30 <mattdm> Tell your friends! Make new friends and bring them too!
14:55:39 <riecatnor[m]> there is a Fedora Accessibility Working Group that is being formed :D
14:55:41 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-accessibility-working-group/40310
14:56:08 <mattdm> That's awesome
14:56:21 <riecatnor[m]> also the Marketing team is working on a revival
14:56:23 <riecatnor[m]> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/august-2022-marketing-campaign/40296
14:57:14 <riecatnor[m]> last note from me is- I am working on a budget report for this year.. I got some feedback from Mindshare and plan to share that more broadly in the next couple weeks
14:57:25 <riecatnor[m]> * from Mindshare on a first draft and plan
14:58:01 <mattdm> That's a lot, riecatnor :) Thank you!
14:58:10 <mattdm> And look at the time!
14:58:17 <mattdm> Thank you everyone!
14:58:21 <mattdm> #endmeeting