15:00:04 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
15:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 12 15:00:04 2022 UTC.
15:00:04 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:04 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:04 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
15:00:09 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:12 <adamw> #topic Roll Call
15:00:23 <adamw> morning folks, who's around for meeting fun?
15:01:02 <pboy> .hi
15:01:05 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
15:01:13 * coremodule is here
15:02:55 <adamw> hmm, bit thin
15:03:03 <bcotton> .hello2
15:03:04 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
15:03:41 * kparal is here
15:05:47 <lruzicka> .hello2
15:05:48 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
15:06:08 <SumantroMukherje> .hello sumantrom
15:06:09 <zodbot> SumantroMukherje: sumantrom 'Sumantro Mukherjee' <sumukher@redhat.com>
15:07:49 <adamw> ahoyhoy everyone
15:07:56 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:08:11 <adamw> #info no action items from previous meeting
15:08:18 <adamw> anyone have any non-action-item-related-follow-up?
15:09:33 <lruzicka> adamw, I have an important finding but I am not sure if it fits here :D
15:10:03 <coremodule> what about action-adventure-item-followup?
15:11:07 * tflink[m] apologies for showing up late
15:11:19 <adamw> coremodule: no.
15:11:29 <adamw> lruzicka: is it a follow up to the last meeting? ;)
15:11:55 <lruzicka> nope :D
15:13:09 <adamw> alrighty then, we can do it in open floor
15:13:18 <lruzicka> adamw, gladly
15:13:34 <adamw> #topic Fedora 37 Beta check-in and final steps
15:14:38 <adamw> so, we actually signed off on the beta candidate on thursday, which is terrifying
15:14:47 <adamw> kparal: what blockers did you find over the weekend
15:15:12 <kparal> none, I promise
15:15:49 <lruzicka> kparal, you need to make promises for the future, too
15:16:00 <kparal> I'm certainly not saving them 4 days before Final Go/NoGo
15:16:14 <bcotton> kparal++
15:16:14 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for kparal changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:16:45 <adamw> heh
15:17:39 <adamw> we do have quite a list of commonbugs candidates to go through
15:17:43 <adamw> i guess i will work on that today
15:19:32 <adamw> #action adamw to work on F37 Beta common issues
15:19:48 <adamw> anyone aware of anything else we should take care of ahead of the releaSE?
15:20:33 <adamw> i'm trying to get in touch with pbrobinson to sort out the IoT release
15:20:58 <kparal> what about IoT?
15:21:59 <adamw> IoT has separate composes
15:22:05 <adamw> so we need to designate one that's going to be released as the beta
15:22:24 <adamw> i tried to make sure we got a nightly with the same content as the beta had, but just need to make sure everyone is on the same page there...
15:22:31 <adamw> we should've done it in go/no-go meeting, but i think everyone forgot.
15:22:34 <adamw> Ben Cotton (he/him): were you on this too?
15:22:56 <bcotton> i was not
15:22:56 <kparal> ok, that's related to a topic we've discussed with coremodule today. Should we talk about it now or later?
15:23:42 <coremodule> I couldn't make the go/no-go on Thursday
15:24:07 <adamw> kparal: sure.
15:24:39 <kparal> so, I was a bit confused today when I looked at the Beta 1.5 announcement email https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/C5L2ATTWX3ALCF3SFDKCLMLNGSB6IKYC/ and found out that it doesn't mention IoT at all
15:25:04 <kparal> I wondered how do we know everything's fine during Go/NoGo in regards to IoT
15:25:16 <kparal> I couldn't even find a relevant IoT matrix to Beta 1.5
15:25:29 <kparal> The latest one is this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora-IoT_37_RC_20220831.0_General
15:25:36 <kparal> which is old
15:26:23 <kparal> I wonder if we could improve this and a) create an up-to-date wiki matrix for IoT that matches content in Beta 1.5 and b) include the link in the test-announce email
15:27:20 <kparal> It could improve participation in testing, and we'd also have some relevant results. Currently it seems we only have outdated results.
15:27:41 <adamw> kparal: basically, yes, that was entirely mixed
15:27:48 <adamw> misseD*
15:28:00 <adamw> however, there is no "beta 1.5" of IoT. that's what I meant when I said IoT has separate composes.
15:28:15 <coremodule> I think we should definitely do B above
15:28:20 <kparal> I know, but we could "nominate" the compose from the same day as 1.5
15:28:27 <adamw> that wouldn't match 1.5
15:28:38 <coremodule> We could include https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Current_IoT_Summary in the email
15:28:39 <adamw> i already said above that i tried to make sure we had a nightly that matched what was in the beta
15:28:59 <adamw> by which i mean i asked nirik to hold further updates after pushing the beta update set stable for at least a day, so the next IoT nightly would match beta content
15:29:29 <adamw> but yes, in general, we should stop forgetting about IoT...
15:29:40 <kparal> ok, so that would basically achieve what I'm asking for
15:29:47 * nirik hasn't pushed them yet. :) let me know when it's ok to.
15:29:50 <kparal> but it still needs an candidate announcement sent out
15:29:57 <kparal> next time
15:30:13 <kparal> should we file a ticket somewhere, relval-consumer or similar?
15:31:21 <adamw> nirik: i think we can push 0-days now, as any IoT candidate from over the weekend should match beta.
15:31:35 <adamw> kparal: i can't think of anywhere a ticket would help
15:31:58 <adamw> relvalconsumer already does everything it should do
15:32:01 <nirik> adamw: sure, I could push them after this updates-testing push and fire a new compose?
15:32:17 <nirik> or just wait for tomorrows
15:32:17 <adamw> nirik: sure
15:33:57 <kparal> if it does everything needed, what do we need to do to have a new IoT compose ready for testing roughly at the same time as the main Beta candidate announcement, next time?
15:35:01 <kparal> it might also be good to have a better email subject, not just generic "IoT nightly compose available", but "IoT Beta candidate available". It might help community participation.
15:35:26 <coremodule> kparal, we generally do have an IoT compose ready for testing when the beta candidate is announced, it usually ends up being that days or the previous days nightly
15:35:48 <adamw> kparal: we have to request one.
15:36:10 <adamw> kparal: the mail subject is determined by the type of the compose, whether it's a nightly or a candidate.
15:36:26 <kparal> alright, so the tooling is ready, and we just forgot to file a request, right?
15:36:33 <adamw> coremodule: in this case, we should have done a candidate for IoT, because there were changes pulled from updates-testing that were relevant to IoT
15:36:50 <adamw> kparal: i don't actually know if releng is set up to do candidate IoT composes or if we've just always shipped nightlies before
15:36:56 <adamw> nirik:  ^^^?
15:37:25 <coremodule> Ah. I know at the IoT meeting we didn't discuss which image we'd want to use, we didn't expect to release Beta on time, hah
15:37:41 <kparal> I'm looking at test-announce archives and I only see "IoT" together with "nightly" in the subjects
15:37:46 <coremodule> what can I do in the future to have a candidate picked in time?
15:38:09 <nirik> Not sure at all. IoT is composed on another machine and I haven't ever looked at it. ;)
15:38:45 <kparal> Why do I have the feeling that IoT is the ugly duckling in here? 😄
15:38:48 <SumantroMukherje> https://getfedora.org/en/iot/download/
15:38:56 <kparal> We have to give it a bit more love 🙂
15:39:43 <SumantroMukherje> this just point to compose but the name doesnt have Beta or Final.
15:39:55 <kparal> I'd like to see IoT candidate announcements mentioning Beta and not just nightly
15:40:10 <adamw> coremodule: yeah, i think everyone was kinda asssuming we weren't going to hit Beta on time. :P
15:40:25 <adamw> kparal: well, it's more sort of that it hasn't been a *problem* so far
15:40:28 <kparal> that doesn't mean it has to become Beta, just being a Beta candidate
15:40:32 <adamw> we've just always shipped a nightly and it's been fine
15:40:50 <kparal> technically it might be the same, but community-wise it would be an improvement
15:41:30 <adamw> kparal: i'd like to try and bypass whichever circuit in your brain thinks candidates are more important than nightlies, because they really aren't ;)
15:41:31 <adamw> in my ideal world we wouldn't have any candidates at all
15:41:31 <adamw> in my realistic ideal world we'd do two per release
15:41:42 <adamw> maybe i can look at doing something to the nightly emails. meh
15:41:53 <adamw> anyhow, IoT doesn't really need much in the way of manual testing, i don't think
15:41:57 <kparal> well if you want to ask people to come and participate, and you announce it every 2 weeks, you're not going to have a concentrated effort at the important point of time
15:42:09 <adamw> anyhoo
15:42:13 <adamw> we're kinda running late here
15:42:35 <kparal> ok, sorry, coremodule can push this topic forward in the future 😉
15:42:53 <kparal> file tickets, that always helps, I heard
15:44:12 <coremodule> file tickets, submit blockers
15:44:24 <coremodule> *last-minute blockers
15:44:31 <coremodule> :)
15:44:55 <AhmedA> I remember one ticket I filled early on back in rawhide
15:45:06 <AhmedA> but it was fixed ages ago.
15:45:38 <adamw> oookay
15:45:39 <adamw> let's see
15:45:57 <adamw> #topic Fedora CoreOS release criteria / test case revisions
15:46:12 <adamw> so, kinda in the same vein, we have another outside-the-main-compose-process edition to care about now...
15:46:33 <adamw> i think CoreOS is still supposed to be becoming a full edition with F37. to that end we kinda need release criteria and things for it.
15:47:04 <adamw> dusty and sumantro and I have kinda been working on this at https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1239 and the hackmd linked there
15:47:31 <adamw> we currently have a couple of drafts (one from me, one from sumantro) for revisions to the basic criteria, and i'm planning to do beta and final this week
15:48:39 <SumantroMukherje> adamw, coreOS is a rolling thing. Nothing gets added to their test directly, is it even sane to have something for Beta and Final?
15:48:53 <SumantroMukherje> whatever gets added in next, flows through to test and final anyway
15:50:00 <adamw> i don't know what you mean by "nothing gets added to their test directly"
15:50:08 <adamw> but anyway, yes, it does make sense, to me.
15:50:26 <adamw> beta and final are milestones. that can apply just as well to a rolling process.
15:51:02 <adamw> after beta milestone, any coreos build should meet the beta requirements to be promoted to users. after final milestone, any coreos build should meet the final requirements to be promoted to users.
15:51:19 <lruzicka> adamw, that makes perfect sense
15:51:30 <adamw> if they all meet all the requirements all the time, then i'm not going to complain. ;)
15:52:02 <SumantroMukherje> that's what I meant. they usually meet all requirements all the time :)
15:55:33 <adamw> then that's great, but i don't see any benefit in hacking the release criteria around
15:56:01 <adamw> we need the milestones for other Fedora editions, it doesn't hurt CoreOS to split things up that way, so...let's keep doing it?
15:56:13 <SumantroMukherje> yep
15:58:02 <adamw> so, yeah, running short on time, but that's ongoing. if anyone wants to help out / take a look at the drafts, please do
15:58:21 <adamw> #info adamw, sumantro and dustymabe are working on release criteria and test coverage for CoreOS at https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1239
15:58:31 <adamw> #topic Test Day / community event status
15:59:09 <SumantroMukherje> we have IoT test week, virt , Gnome Apps , Upgrade Test week coming up!
15:59:35 <SumantroMukherje> we are currently running GNOME and i18n with significant participation
16:00:46 <adamw> starting blocker review over in #blocker-review:fedoraproject.org while we wind up here
16:02:13 <adamw> Sumantro Mukherjee: what are the dates on the upcoming ones?
16:03:11 <SumantroMukherje> IoT is next week and Upgrade will be 22nd. rest will be placed by tomorrow.
16:04:10 <kparal> Sumantro Mukherjee: GNOME and i18n are currently active? I don't see any announcements in test-announce nor events in the calendar
16:06:00 <SumantroMukherje> i18n's last day is today. I made a test list post about it ... pretty much remember.. wait, are my emails not going again?!
16:06:49 <kparal> Look at test and test-announce archives on the web to verify, I don't see them
16:06:56 <kparal> Also the calendar looks empty to me
16:07:14 <adamw> hmm, yeah, i don't see any either. sorry, should've noticed that
16:07:20 <lruzicka> SumantroMukherje, I can see a StrongCryptoSettings Test Day 7 days ago as a last mail from Sumantro
16:07:29 <kparal> I wonder how people actually know to show up? 🤔
16:07:38 <lruzicka> in the test announce list
16:08:09 <SumantroMukherje> Fedora Magazine does the calling mostly kparal
16:08:27 <kparal> ok, great. Still, please fix the two other places, thanks
16:08:38 <SumantroMukherje> sure
16:08:56 <SumantroMukherje> I am  sorry this happened
16:11:38 <adamw> #info GNOME and i18n test weeks are ongoing: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2022-09-07_Fedora_37_GNOME_43_Final , https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2022-09-06_I18N_Test_Day
16:12:14 <adamw> #info IoT test week is next week: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/710
16:12:28 <adamw> #info upgrade, virt, and GNOME apps test events are all upcoming
16:12:30 <adamw> #topic Open floor
16:12:33 <adamw> anything else quickly?
16:13:03 <kparal> nothing here
16:15:45 <lruzicka> no, will keep it for a private converastion with you
16:20:13 <adamw> lruzicka: is it the thing you emailed abouT? if so i replied
16:20:43 <lruzicka> adamw, yes
16:21:08 <adamw> alright
16:21:11 <adamw> thanks for coming, everyone
16:21:12 <lruzicka> adamw, I know you did. I will reply there.
16:21:12 <adamw> #endmeeting