14:00:10 <bcotton> #startmeeting Council (2022-10-26)
14:00:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 26 14:00:10 2022 UTC.
14:00:10 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:10 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
14:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2022-10-26)'
14:00:11 <bcotton> #meetingname council
14:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
14:00:31 <bcotton> a little laggy, but manageable
14:00:37 <bcotton> #chair dcantrell siddharthvipul1 jwf spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom bt0 t0xic0der
14:00:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bt0 dcantrell siddharthvipul1 jwf spot mattdm bcotton sumantrom t0xic0der
14:00:45 <jwf> .hello jflory7
14:00:45 <zodbot> jwf: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <jwf@redhat.com>
14:00:56 <bcotton> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
14:00:56 <mattdm> Good morning everyone!
14:02:17 <jwf> Good morning from this side of the planet :)
14:02:19 <jwf> What's good?
14:02:39 <bcotton> not openssl! :-(
14:02:43 <mattdm> NOT OPENSSL
14:02:50 <mattdm> yeah
14:03:07 <VipulSiddharth[m> .hello siddharthvipul1
14:03:08 <jwf> Oh no. I missed that?
14:03:08 <zodbot> VipulSiddharth[m: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
14:03:19 * jwf waves to Vipul Siddharth
14:03:29 <VipulSiddharth[m> what's up with openssl o.O
14:03:35 <VipulSiddharth[m> > * <@jflory7:fedora.im> waves to Vipul Siddharth
14:03:35 <VipulSiddharth[m> Good Morning :D
14:03:36 <jwf> Heartbleed 2.0?
14:03:40 <mattdm> quick version: the project has pre-announced that they're releasing a fix on Tuesday for a critical vulnerability
14:03:57 <jwf> VipulSiddharth[m: Good evening to you :)
14:04:31 <bcotton> #topic Today's agenda
14:04:32 <mattdm> they've had a few critical fixes since heartbleed which didn't get the same attention. so it's kind of hard to judge
14:04:35 <mattdm> unfortunate timing
14:04:36 <jwf> mattdm: I foresee some urgent package updates coming through then. It will even land in F35, looks like then
14:04:41 <bcotton> #info Register gitlab.com/fedora/council subgroup and create commarch repo
14:04:41 <bcotton> #info Proposal to move council-private mailing list to Discussion
14:04:41 <bcotton> #info Matthew's “backlog of guilt"
14:04:44 <bcotton> #info Your topics here!
14:04:46 <mattdm> thank you ben for staying on track with the agenda :)
14:04:55 <jwf> ++
14:05:03 <bcotton> :-)
14:05:04 <bcotton> #topic Register gitlab.com/fedora/council subgroup and create commarch repo
14:05:04 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-tickets-ticket-416-register-gitlab-com-fedora-council-sub-group-and-create-commarch-repo/43457
14:05:21 <jwf> It's a lot of me on the agenda today :)
14:05:33 <bcotton> so justin, matthew, and I have thoroughly debated the paint on this particular bike shed. it would be good to have others chime in
14:05:43 <jwf> So, for this ticket, I was only looking for approval to register the subgroup on GitLab and make a new repo.
14:05:45 <mattdm> Wait, shouldn't we start with WELCOME JUSTIN
14:06:00 <VipulSiddharth[m> 🎊
14:06:18 <bcotton> this is how we welcome him. it's not very effective
14:06:24 <VipulSiddharth[m> WELCOME JUSTIN ❤️❤️🎉
14:06:27 <mattdm> lol
14:06:40 <jwf> Thanks y'all 😄
14:07:01 <jwf> bcotton: It's not my first rodeo on the Council. Just the first time wearing a red hat here :)
14:07:27 <mattdm> and as FCAIC :)
14:07:58 <mattdm> My opinion on the paint: I think creating that sub-group is fine, and having a place for FCAIC stuff under it likewise, but I (lightly) prefer calling that "fcaic" rather than introducing "commarch" or "community-architecture".
14:09:11 <bcotton> agreed, but i'll note that if justin feels strongly about the name, we're not stuck with it forever anyway
14:09:30 <jwf> While it's not a hill that I was firmly rooted in to start, my hope was to illuminate the kind of work that the FCAIC does instead of illuminating the FCAIC role, if this makes any sense. But yeah, it is also easy to change later too.
14:09:32 <mattdm> Pretty sure any names we introduce into Fedora stay here forever. (Looks at "CLA +1"...)
14:09:45 * bcotton closes eyes
14:10:05 <bcotton> so, as a matter of procedure, i'm not convinced this needs a formal vote
14:10:12 <jwf> But if we are generally okay with registering the Council name space, then I think there is a clear path forward
14:10:12 <bcotton> does anyone want to argue that we should, in fact, vote on this?
14:10:51 <jwf> I'll open a ticket with Infra/CPE to get it handled and also have us added to a permissioned group to manage repositories within that subgroup
14:11:29 <mattdm> yeah +1 to no vote :)
14:11:30 <bcotton> aiui, it should be able to use the existing `council` group via SSO
14:12:18 <bcotton> proposed #agreed We're in favor of creating the name space and jflory7 can name his FCAIC repo as he sees fit
14:12:41 <jwf> +1
14:12:57 <mattdm> yes
14:13:21 <mattdm> I am, however, not voting
14:13:31 <bcotton> #agreed We're in favor of creating the name space and jflory7 can name his FCAIC repo as he sees fit
14:13:50 <bcotton> #action jflory7 to file ticket to create council name space in gitlab
14:13:54 <bcotton> anything else on this one?
14:15:05 <bcotton> seems like a no
14:15:06 <bcotton> #topic Proposal to move council-private mailing list to Discussion
14:15:28 <bcotton> so this was proposed on the list, but it's not sensitive itself, just meta, and the existence of the list is not a secret
14:16:24 <bcotton> i don't think anyone opined except me, and i'm not sure if my input was pro- or con-, so others please have opinions!
14:16:41 <bcotton> we already know your opinion, matthew ;-)
14:17:20 <mattdm> So, the big thing to be aware of here is: we can't hide things from admins
14:17:33 <mattdm> And we have some not-on-council admins and probably will have more with the Ask merge
14:18:03 <mattdm> And actually, I think maybe that goes for moderators too. Although we could change all moderators to be category mods which would get around that
14:18:23 <jwf> mattdm: This was my next question
14:19:23 <mattdm> And we don't archive the mailing list -- we can set things to delete in Discourse, but there is "deleted" and _actually deleted indelibly_, and I'm not actually sure if we can automate the latter.
14:20:04 <jwf> Do we want indelibly deleted?
14:20:38 <jwf> To be fair, I didn't know moderators could also view secret categories. But I also thought it was possible to make a category that only a specific group can see, exception of site admins as well
14:21:50 <bcotton> We want indelibly deleted to preserve confidentiality, imo
14:22:33 <bcotton> That's why we don't archive the mailing list
14:22:49 <mattdm> I think this was at Justin's request, actually :)
14:23:55 <jwf> I feel like we might have more conditions that would make this migration tricky. From my limited perspective, Council private discussions aren't something so secretive or confidential that we have to bury them ten feet underground, so I don't see as much of an issue with the challenges that come with Discourse. But my perspective is much more time-limited than the rest of y'all
14:25:01 <mattdm> I definitely would like to keep hhlp and ankursinha as admins. They've done a lot on Ask
14:25:02 <jwf> I guess I'm +0 at this point. I have feelings about it but not so passionate feelings that would make me want to drive this migration either :)
14:26:22 <mattdm> Let's revisit when we get to the point of needing to shut down mailing lists forever :)
14:26:36 <jwf> mattdm: +1
14:27:35 <bcotton> #info The proposal to move the council-private list to Discussion is tabled indefinitely
14:27:46 <bcotton> #topic Matthew's “backlog of guilt”
14:27:57 <bcotton> #info Let the record reflect that this is Matthew's term for it :-)
14:28:10 <bcotton> #info mattdm to create a historical documents section for old Council docs, Board decisions, etc
14:28:10 <bcotton> #info mattdm to post strategic plan discussion threads
14:28:22 <mattdm> Oh!
14:28:25 <mattdm> I DID ONE OF THESE
14:28:34 <bcotton> 🎉
14:28:44 <mattdm> hold on a second...
14:28:56 <mattdm> https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/pull-request/148
14:29:12 <mattdm> someone mash that merge button!
14:29:35 * bcotton rebases
14:29:49 * bcotton merges
14:30:06 <mattdm> thanks ben!
14:30:34 <mattdm> The second thing I have on my calendar for Friday
14:30:38 <jwf> 🙌🏻
14:31:21 <bcotton> #action mattdm to post strategic plan discussion threads
14:32:06 <mattdm> should we scan through open tickets and see which ones we can #action Justin W. Flory (he/him) ?
14:32:14 <jwf> Curious, because I missed a lot of the strategy conversations…
14:32:18 <bcotton> #topic Open tickets
14:32:18 <jwf> What's coming with those threads?
14:32:27 <bcotton> #undo
14:32:27 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7ffba50a6630>
14:32:55 <mattdm> Good question Justin! :)
14:33:13 <jwf> mattdm: I don't mind this next :)
14:33:21 <mattdm> We haven't been able to have an in-person council meeting to work on the strategy
14:33:31 <mattdm> Trying to do it async or via virtual meetings wasn't really working
14:33:50 <mattdm> So Marie, Ben, and I got together to start a proposal based on the feedback we've gotten from earlier discussion
14:34:07 <mattdm> this is what I presented at Nest, and rather than retyping that I'm going to find the youtube link real quick...
14:34:40 <mattdm> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5He0Ckh-_-0
14:35:16 <mattdm> I would find the timestamp, but it's basically halfway in
14:35:21 <jwf> Cool, then there's some homework for me.
14:35:29 <mattdm> Anyway, that is basically the very right-most side of our logic model
14:35:39 <mattdm> and the next steps are filling out to the left
14:35:48 <jwf> The threads are going to be ongoing discussion to shape the strategy? Or feedback on what is already put together?
14:36:19 <jwf> I guess I am wondering what the expectations are for participation in strategy topics from here on.
14:36:23 <mattdm> I feel pretty good about what we have. But part of the logic model process is revalidating that as we go so there is room for both
14:36:35 <mattdm> I guess I should start with a post about that
14:36:51 <bcotton> oh no! someone gave the mouse a cookie
14:37:20 <mattdm> "And that's why I now have a windmill on my roof."
14:38:01 <mattdm> okay, tickets?
14:38:39 <bcotton> #topic Open ticket
14:38:45 <mattdm> s
14:38:48 <bcotton> s
14:38:52 <bcotton> not going to bother #undo-ing that. we live it with
14:38:53 <mattdm> jinx
14:39:05 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issues?status=Open&order_key=last_updated&order=asc
14:39:19 <bcotton> speaking of backlog of guilt....
14:39:27 * bcotton looks at #388
14:39:57 <jwf> #412 sounds interesting
14:40:23 <mattdm> I feel like #388 could be an excellent one for #action jflory7
14:40:47 <mattdm> because as a new Red Hatter he's exactly in the thick of that maelstrom
14:41:01 <mattdm> s/maelstrom/mælstrom/
14:41:24 <mattdm> I am happy to opine but not write :)
14:41:47 * mattdm notes that #198 is still on my backlog of shame
14:41:54 <bcotton> i would be glad to unlick that particular cookie
14:42:26 <jwf> mattdm: This one seems like something I could get an initial draft together for.
14:42:41 <jwf> Do we think this would exist as a Docs page in docs.fp.o/project/?
14:42:57 <jwf> Or what does a deliverable look like here?
14:43:45 <mattdm> Yes, I think exactly that.
14:44:27 <mattdm> there is this: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/fedora-and-red-hat-enterprise-linux/
14:44:27 <jwf> Cool. I could take an action here. Although it would be nice to have an approximate deadline to help keep me accountable
14:44:43 <mattdm> but that is about the products more than the project and company
14:45:14 <bcotton> i mean, it's sat for 7 months already, so it's not....pressing
14:45:24 <mattdm> (random note: I was at a RH Executive Briefing on Monday, and the customer made a big distinction between Project and Product, but very much not the one that RH keeps trying to make.)
14:45:48 <mattdm> "Open Source Projects are Programs, Actually" — bcotton_
14:46:03 <bcotton> sounds like an insightful person
14:46:20 <jwf> Also noting I will be traveling in Raleigh next week for ATO and haven't gotten my personal community todo list together yet.
14:46:46 <mattdm> Yeah, I don't want to give you a deadline on this, but something to throw into the mix?
14:46:55 <jwf> jwf: (Which, will be a little nostalgic since I met bcotton there for the first time five years ago)
14:47:01 <mattdm> awwww
14:47:17 <jwf> mattdm: Let's say end of November for a first draft. The deadline is more for me. :)
14:47:22 <mattdm> okay!
14:47:35 <jwf> When is the last November Council meeting date?
14:47:36 <jwf> I pick that date
14:47:51 <bcotton> um, probably 2 weeks from now
14:48:11 <bcotton> given the next one would be the day before the US Thanksgiving holiday, if i'm looking at the calendar correctly
14:48:20 <jwf> Oh. Right.
14:48:25 <bcotton> yes, that's the case
14:48:29 <jwf> Then after U.S. Thanksgiving. Let's do that :P
14:49:06 <mattdm> Next... I can give a brief update on #391 and #392. Justin, maybe you've heard more from Marie, but as I understand it, she's working with a consultant on a draft for these things and will continue that as part of her new role, and there should be an update soon... ish.
14:49:32 <jwf> mattdm: I'm meeting Paula, the consultant, today!
14:49:41 <mattdm> cool!
14:50:08 <mattdm> Justin, do you want to administratively take ownership of these two? Or check with Marie on what she wants to do?
14:50:26 <jwf> mattdm: Let me ask Marie first what she prefers and check back in.
14:50:40 <mattdm> sounds good
14:51:10 <jwf> #action jwf Follow up with riecatnor on moving forward with Council CoC-related tickets
14:53:43 <bcotton> okay, we're almost out of time, so
14:53:54 <bcotton> #topic Next meeting
14:53:54 <bcotton> #info The next regular business meeting is Wednesday 9 November
14:54:07 <bcotton> #info We do not have video meeting guests scheduled currently
14:54:11 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/Video_Meetings
14:54:17 <bcotton> #topic Do we have anything to announce?
14:54:17 <bcotton> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities
14:54:26 <jwf> #action jwf Put together a draft for the Fedora/Red Hat relationship (#388) and share back to Council after U.S. Thanksgiving
14:54:33 <bcotton> #info F37 Release Party registration is open: https://fedoramagazine.org/youre-invited-to-the-fedora-linux-37-release-party/
14:54:33 <bcotton> anything that we haven't announced?
14:54:50 <mattdm> I suggest we do a Justin W. Flory (he/him) feature for the meeting.
14:54:51 <mattdm> video meeting.
14:55:01 <mattdm> Like a little interview for people who don't know him.
14:55:10 <jwf> Different from the release party one?
14:55:22 <jwf> I should hire a speech writer 😄
14:55:30 <bcotton> twice as long and more interactive than the release party one :-)
14:55:32 * mattdm needs to register for the release party :)
14:55:38 <mattdm> What is the format of the release party one?
14:56:06 <jwf> mattdm: That's a good question. I haven't figured it out yet 😄
14:56:12 <jwf> But I think it would be different audiences
14:56:30 <jwf> I'll probably make the RelParty more broad and the Council one more contributor-focused
14:56:34 <mattdm> I imagine this one as me interviewing you. Possibly with pithy interjections from Ben and others
14:56:50 <mattdm> Like, a softball interview, to be clear :)
14:57:13 <jwf> Register for the release party today and we'll call it a done deal 😁
14:57:22 <mattdm> (oh: metaphor for non-US folks -- that means "easy to hit slow pitches" in a friendly format)
14:57:27 <bcotton> softball questions from matthew, but i make no promises :-)
14:57:32 <mattdm> exactly!
14:57:36 <mattdm> and... registered!
14:57:57 <jwf> mattdm: Then I guess I'm scheduled 😆
14:58:27 <jwf> Sorry, AFK for a couple minutes
14:59:08 <bcotton> alrighty, anything else in the final minute?
14:59:38 <mattdm> I don't htink so. Thank you ben!
14:59:58 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone!
15:00:01 <bcotton> #endmeeting