17:00:22 <mhroncok> #startmeeting FESCO (2022-12-06)
17:00:22 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Dec  6 17:00:22 2022 UTC.
17:00:22 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
17:00:22 <zodbot> The chair is mhroncok. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
17:00:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2022-12-06)'
17:00:24 <mhroncok> #meetingname fesco
17:00:24 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
17:00:30 <mhroncok> #chair nirik, decathorpe, zbyszek, sgallagh, mhroncok, dcantrell, music, mhayden, Conan_Kudo, Pharaoh_Atem, Son_Goku, King_InuYasha, Sir_Gallantmon, Eighth_Doctor
17:00:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: Conan_Kudo Eighth_Doctor King_InuYasha Pharaoh_Atem Sir_Gallantmon Son_Goku dcantrell decathorpe mhayden mhroncok music nirik sgallagh zbyszek
17:00:33 <mhroncok> #topic init process
17:00:37 <mhroncok> .hello churchyard
17:00:38 <zodbot> mhroncok: churchyard 'Miro Hrončok' <mhroncok@redhat.com>
17:00:45 <dcantrell> .hello
17:00:45 <zodbot> dcantrell: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
17:00:49 <dcantrell> .hello2
17:00:49 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
17:01:23 <mhroncok> dcantrell: 👋
17:01:45 <dcantrell> hi
17:02:00 <nirik> morning
17:02:09 <mhayden> .hi
17:02:10 <zodbot> mhayden: mhayden 'Major Hayden' <mhayden@redhat.com>
17:02:29 <mhroncok> nirik, mhayden hello
17:02:55 <mhroncok> I count 4 FESCo members so far
17:03:00 <zbyszek> .hello2
17:03:01 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@in.waw.pl>
17:03:26 <mhroncok> hello zbyszek. that makes it 5
17:03:37 <mhroncok> we have quorum 🎉
17:03:42 <zbyszek> I'm happy to be the fifth wheel
17:03:57 <mhroncok> #topic #2905 Re-approval of Change proposal: RPM Macros for Build Flags for F38
17:03:58 <zbyszek> on the road to early end today.
17:04:06 <mhroncok> .fesco 2905
17:04:07 <zodbot> mhroncok: Issue #2905: Re-approval of Change proposal: RPM Macros for Build Flags for F38 - fesco - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2905
17:04:23 <mhroncok> the -1 is by Stephen Gallagher who is not here
17:04:44 <mhroncok> we might approve it if we all vote +1, or we can talk about it without Stephen Gallagher or we can skip it :)
17:04:53 <zbyszek> So… I think we should approve this following the usual rule that not all details need to be figured out.
17:05:23 <zbyszek> Individual patches that implement this will be reviewed, and we can knock out the specific shape of the macros there.
17:06:22 * bcotton slides into the back of the room
17:06:24 <mhroncok> I also thinkt hat the EPEL agrument is not solid. packagers who want to have a single compatible spec file can simply decide not to use this feature until RHEL 9 goes EOL
17:06:31 <decathorpe> .hi
17:06:32 <zodbot> decathorpe: decathorpe 'Fabio Valentini' <decathorpe@gmail.com>
17:06:43 <nirik> yeah, I guess I can be +1 to it...
17:06:44 <mhroncok> s/thinkt/think/, s/hat/that/
17:06:56 <mhroncok> I'm +1 to the change
17:07:04 <nirik> although it would possibly cause confusion..
17:07:18 * zbyszek is still +1
17:07:18 <mhroncok> nirik: what kind of cinfusion?
17:07:21 <nirik> ie, if you used it in rawhide merged to epel or stable releases and it didn't do anything silently
17:08:15 <mhroncok> nirik: that is possible with many other things today
17:08:26 <nirik> indeed.
17:08:39 <mhroncok> and EPEL packagers might decide to backport this if they so desire
17:08:40 <nirik> just wanted to note it, as I said I can be +1 to this.
17:09:00 <nirik> I think it might indeed be nice to backport...
17:09:03 <mhroncok> I have a slight confusion wrt the example with %{optflags} there. Does %{optflags} contain the extra flags or not?
17:09:10 <mhroncok> but that can be solved post approval
17:09:23 <decathorpe> I just noticed I hadn't voted in ticket here, but I'm +1
17:09:32 <decathorpe> less sed magic is always good
17:10:09 <mhroncok> dcantrell and zbyszek?
17:10:14 <dcantrell> +1
17:10:33 <zbyszek> still +1, as mentioned above
17:10:43 <mhroncok> sorry, I've missed that
17:11:16 <music[m]> .hello music
17:11:18 <zodbot> music[m]: music 'Benjamin Beasley' <code@musicinmybrain.net>
17:11:30 <music[m]> Just scrolling back to catch up…
17:11:55 <mhroncok> so that is Conan Kudo, mhayden, zbyszek, nirik, Fabio Valentini, @dcantrell, @mhroncok +7
17:12:07 <mhroncok> Stephen Gallagher -1
17:12:12 <mhroncok> and waiting for music
17:12:18 <nirik> I was +1 as above
17:12:26 <mhroncok> (do correct me if you spot a mistake)
17:12:29 <nirik> oh you are counting +1s. right.
17:14:19 <music[m]> My worry was that the updated change proposal said the using the new feature would become mandatory. So people assiduously following the guidelines would be required to use it in Rawhide, and add conditionals if they expected to marge back to branches without the feature.
17:15:16 <mhroncok> you mean this? "The Fedora packaging policy will be updated to require that packages that want to use additional flag use the new macros."
17:15:26 <music[m]> Correct
17:15:41 <mhroncok> the applicability of the Fedora packaging guidelines is Rawhide
17:15:43 <decathorpe> well, that will still need be hashed out with the FPC, so I don't count on this being mandatory
17:16:06 <decathorpe> and even so, yes, rawhide only ... though if stable releases are different, the guidelines usually mention that.
17:16:12 <mhroncok> and FPC can hash it out in a way that it is only mandatory for spec files that are intedned for F38+
17:16:21 <mhroncok> s/intedned/intended/
17:16:42 <zbyszek> "Other developers may, but are not required to, update their packages to use the new macros."
17:16:53 <mhroncok> plus, this seems like something that can be easily backported without breakign backwards compatibility
17:16:54 <gotmax> This would require overriding RHEL macros if we backported it to EPEL so don't count on that
17:17:36 <music[m]> As long as we don’t force people with backwards-compatible spec files to use the macros, I have no objections.
17:17:38 <mhroncok> gotmax: it should be possibel to extend them instead of "override"
17:18:08 <music[m]> Or, if the macros are backported, either way.
17:18:31 <mhroncok> music: what we we approve the change saying that using the macros will not be mandatory in Fedora, but it will be the recommended way
17:18:57 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa
17:18:58 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
17:18:59 <mhroncok> I don't think it makes that practical difference, but technically, it makes sense to do so
17:19:39 <zbyszek> Seems fine to me to add that clarification.
17:19:47 <mhroncok> we coudl also say we delegate that decision to the FPC
17:20:06 <mhroncok> s/coudl/could/
17:20:18 <music[m]> I am ok with recommended, or even mandatory except when the spec file is intended to support releases without the macro. I am also OK with delegating to FPC.
17:22:02 <mhroncok> Is everybody OK with this: The change is approved (+8,0,-1) with a slight modification. "The Fedora packaging policy will be updated to require that packages that want to use additional flag use the new macros" will be relaxed to s/require/recommend/ to allow packagers not usign this change if they desire to use the same spec in older Fedora/EL releases.
17:22:10 <zbyszek> Ack.
17:22:22 <mhroncok> s/usign/using/
17:22:30 <nirik> +1
17:22:31 <decathorpe> LGTM
17:22:33 <dcantrell> looks good
17:22:42 <music[m]> +1
17:23:01 <Eighth_Doctor> +1
17:23:27 <mhroncok> #agree APPROVED (+8,0,-1). The change is approved with a slight modification. "The Fedora packaging policy will be updated to require that packages that want to use additional flag use the new macros" will be relaxed to s/require/recommend/ to allow packagers to not use this change if they desire to use the same spec in older Fedora/EL releases.
17:24:01 <mhroncok> I assmue Stephen Gallagher might even change his vote to +1 in this case, but he can do that in the ticket if he want to
17:24:03 <mhayden> +1 here
17:24:16 <mhroncok> #topic Next week's chair
17:24:33 * nirik will be not here next week, or the week after, or the week after. ;)
17:25:05 * mhroncok will be here
17:25:09 <dcantrell> I can do it
17:25:12 <decathorpe> nirik: enjoy your PTO :)
17:25:41 <nirik> decathorpe: looking forward to it. Can catch up on things. ;)
17:25:54 <mhroncok> #action dcantrell will chair next meeting
17:26:00 <mhroncok> thank you dcantrell
17:26:06 <mhroncok> #topic Open Floor
17:26:06 <dcantrell> sure thing
17:26:16 <mhroncok> I have a thing
17:26:40 <mhroncok> when I triaged the open ticket yesterday to send out the agenda, it felt rather neglected
17:27:03 <mhroncok> we have nonresponsive maintainer requests where nobody responds but me
17:27:06 <dcantrell> I have noticed that too and have been trying to set aside a couple times a week to run through tickets
17:27:18 <mhroncok> we have tickets where people were voting on something so logn ago I forgot what was it about
17:27:21 <dcantrell> I need to just permanently put this stuff on the calendar for myself
17:27:41 <mhroncok> s/logn/long/
17:28:30 <nirik> yeah, I have been swamped lately, but I did take time to vote on open things yesterday.
17:28:35 <mhroncok> it is probably enough if the chair goes trough the tickets before each meeting, but it does not always happen. and I don't want folks to avoid chairing if that was the requirement
17:28:56 <dcantrell> mhroncok: I will help with nonresponsive maintainer tickets more as well as everything else in the queue
17:29:06 <mhroncok> thanks
17:29:22 <decathorpe> I'm pretty sure the "pre-meeting" todo list already includes "look at open tickets and process them"?
17:29:26 <nirik> related: if other folks could be more active on https://pagure.io/packager-sponsors/issues that would be appreciated by me. ;)
17:30:15 <dcantrell> nirik: yes
17:30:29 <mhroncok> I think I have the ability to make people sponsors now (not sure if sponsors or provenpackagers or both), so I'll try to pay more attention to that tracker as well
17:30:31 <dcantrell> decathorpe: it does, but as mhroncok said sometimes there's a lot
17:31:23 <mhroncok> I know we all have a lot of things to worry about :/
17:31:36 <mhroncok> so thank you all for doing what you can
17:31:48 <mhroncok> I have nothing else for the open floor
17:31:58 <dcantrell> I'd like to recommend everyone giving themselves 30 minute blocks on their calendar to focus on fesco stuff
17:32:00 <dcantrell> it helps me
17:32:24 <decathorpe> I seem to remember an email about "this might not be added to the agenda because it's already full" ... was that about the OSTree stuff?
17:33:36 <mhroncok> OSTree stuff being which ticket?
17:34:27 <decathorpe> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2883#comment-829846
17:34:39 <decathorpe> never mind, that comment is now a week old. :)
17:35:21 <mhroncok> ack
17:35:35 <mhroncok> end?
17:36:25 <mhroncok> #endmeeting