14:00:43 <bcotton> #startmeeting Council (2023-05-10)
14:00:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 10 14:00:43 2023 UTC.
14:00:43 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:00:43 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
14:00:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council_(2023-05-10)'
14:00:47 <bcotton> #meetingname council
14:00:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'council'
14:00:54 <bcotton> #chair dcantrell siddharthvipul1 jwf bookwar mattdm bcotton sumantrom bt0 t0xic0der
14:00:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton bt0 dcantrell siddharthvipul1 jwf bookwar mattdm bcotton sumantrom t0xic0der
14:00:56 <dcantrell> .hello2
14:00:57 <zodbot> dcantrell: dcantrell 'David Cantrell' <dcantrell@redhat.com>
14:01:03 <bcotton> #topic Introductions, Welcomes
14:01:24 <bcotton> good morning/afternoon/evening/night/whatevenistimeanyway, everyone
14:01:35 <dcantrell> hi
14:01:51 <AleksandraFedoro> .hello bookwar
14:01:52 <zodbot> AleksandraFedoro: bookwar 'Aleksandra Fedorova' <alpha@bookwar.info>
14:04:26 <bcotton> #topic Today's agenda
14:04:32 <bcotton> #info Election questionnaire
14:04:36 <bcotton> #info Open ticket review
14:04:43 <bcotton> #info Your topics here!
14:04:51 <bcotton> #topic Election questionnaire
14:04:58 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-tickets-ticket-448-election-interview-questions-f38/81149/
14:05:42 <bcotton> the discussion here is mostly around the proposed new question, which we seem to have an agreement about the intent of, but not the implementation
14:07:24 <bcotton> I'm not sure I see "harsh" from my wording, but that could be a Me Problem™
14:07:48 <dcantrell> I don't really see yours as harsh, but I think I can understand how people might read it that way
14:07:55 <bcotton> Maybe instead of "What will you stop doing in order" we ask "How will you" make room for Council work?
14:08:11 <dcantrell> yeah, something like that
14:08:19 <dcantrell> how will you prioritize your involvement with the council
14:08:40 <bcotton> I really like the idea of emphasizing the you'll probably need to stop doing something, but not enough to argue myself to death over it
14:09:17 <dcantrell> I do agree that's something to emphasize, but I also don't want it to potentially scare interested people away
14:09:23 <dcantrell> I don't want to overthink that
14:09:51 <AleksandraFedoro> i don't think it is harsh, but I feel like it becomes very personal. And while some people like to share their "productivity story", some are not. And I am not sure I would be ready to judge them on that.
14:10:18 <bcotton> yeah, there's clearly a systemic issue here, as evidenced by the fact that it has been going on for years across many individuals
14:10:37 <bcotton> well if it makes you feel any better, Aleksandra, I don't think most people vote based on the interview responses anyway :-)
14:11:01 <dcantrell> your original wording, bcotton, could imply that candidates are already overcommitted or otherwise too busy
14:11:50 <AleksandraFedoro> Like I can totally see how some PhD student can decide to join a Council, and the honest answer will be - well, being a phd student I have a lot of motivation to procrastinate - but that's probably not the answer we should ask them to put in their council interview.
14:11:55 <bcotton> dcantrell: that's intentional. the people most likely to run for things, in my experience, are exactly the ones who are maximally committed already, at a minimum
14:12:28 <bcotton> it's a paradox of community-driving projects
14:12:32 * bcotton should blog about that sometime
14:12:33 <dcantrell> bcotton: you're not wrong.
14:12:55 <bcotton> but we could argue about words forever
14:13:31 <dcantrell> I don't have a better suggestion to convey that point but also sound less potentially harsh.  I say we go with your original phrasing
14:13:49 <bcotton> proposed #agreed The strategy question is replaced with "The Fedora Council is intended to be an active working body. How will you make room for Council work?"
14:14:05 <dcantrell> +1
14:14:38 * bcotton will be glad when the day comes where zodbot is matrix-native and voting can be via reaction
14:14:45 <bcotton> i'm +1, too
14:15:03 <bcotton> so that's +3,0,-0 so far. anyone else
14:15:17 <bcotton> (also there's an implicit "we keep the rest of the questions" so if you want to change any of the others, now's the chance)
14:15:27 <dcantrell> (I'd also really like it if matrix would remember who the hell I am and stop deauthorizing every client I use and making me jump through hoops again just to get on it.)
14:16:12 <AleksandraFedoro> Ok "How will you make room" vs "What will you stop doing" is not very different from my perspective. My concern I think was from slightly different angle. But I am ok with the current proposal as i assume if people feel like not answering the question they are allowed to do so anyway.
14:16:24 <AleksandraFedoro> So let's count me as 0 :)
14:16:47 <bcotton> ack. People can choose to not answer a question or answer it evasively
14:17:01 <bcotton> "I will now answer the question I wished you'd asked me instead"
14:17:16 <dcantrell> so like real politicians  :)
14:17:29 <bcotton> also a valuable skill for job interviews
14:17:43 <dcantrell> yes
14:18:01 <bcotton> #agreed The strategy question is replaced with "The Fedora Council is intended to be an active working body. How will you make room for Council work?" (+4,1,-0)
14:18:08 <bcotton> i'm pretty sure i counted that right
14:18:18 <bcotton> and if not, you can fire me
14:18:35 <bcotton> #info Open ticket review
14:18:42 <bcotton> #undo
14:18:42 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by bcotton at 14:18:35 : Open ticket review
14:18:57 <bcotton> before I fix my copypasta, anything else on the election interview topic?
14:19:53 <bcotton> there's still 7 hours and 41 minutes!
14:22:28 <AleksandraFedoro> Not helping right now, but I think next time we need to run some Community Blog article about Fedora Council before the nomination round. Because I also think that it remains a mystery for community
14:24:38 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/issues?status=Open&order_key=date_created&order=desc
14:24:38 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issues?status=Open&order_key=date_created&order=desc
14:24:38 <bcotton> #topic Open ticket review
14:25:20 <bcotton> looking at council-docs#102... https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/issue/102#comment-711392
14:25:33 <bcotton> i smiled
14:27:01 <bcotton> which year? ;-)
14:27:53 <bcotton> Ooh, we should handle the Onyx request soon
14:27:58 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/451
14:29:58 * bcotton is 0. I don't like the pattern we're falling into w/r/t naming, but I don't want to punish this team because we haven't figured out a coherent strategy yet
14:30:41 <AleksandraFedoro> Are we going to have a follow-up ticket on that?
14:31:57 <AleksandraFedoro> I mean I remember some naming discussions here and there, but I think we don't have a central place to track this yet.
14:32:16 <AleksandraFedoro> Should we create one with the "Atomic" plan?
14:35:01 <AleksandraFedoro> I am just afraid that next time we will remember about this is when there would be yet another request which we shouldn't block
14:35:35 <bcotton> So I'm seeing +2,0,-0 on this right now
14:35:57 <AleksandraFedoro> +1 from me too
14:36:06 * dcantrell is on the fence
14:36:11 <dcantrell> eh, +1
14:36:14 <dcantrell> there, I decided!
14:37:18 <bcotton> okay, cool that's good enough then. it's been open long enough that anyone who objected had plenty of chance
14:37:38 <bcotton> #agreed the Fedora Onxy request (#451) is approved (+3,1,-0)
14:38:14 <bcotton> #undo
14:38:14 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by bcotton at 14:37:38 : the Fedora Onxy request (#451) is approved (+3,1,-0)
14:38:18 <bcotton> dcantrell++
14:38:18 <zodbot> bcotton: Karma for dcantrell changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
14:38:27 <bcotton> #agreed the Fedora Onxy request (#451) is approved (+4,1,-0)
14:41:13 <bcotton> Just a general "please make sure this is up-to-date" sort of thing, IIRC
14:44:07 <AleksandraFedoro> I think it was about what exactly the expectations from the engineering representative are
14:44:55 <AleksandraFedoro> We discussed that they are not a passive observer but rather an voting active member and that we need to make sure that it is reflected properly
14:52:08 <bcotton> okay, anything else on any of our open tickets?
14:53:36 <bcotton> sounds like "no"
14:53:52 <bcotton> looooooooool
14:54:29 <dcantrell> did the bridge break?  it feels like I'm only seeing parts of conversations here
14:54:37 <bcotton> yeah, and in any case, that's not a group discussion sort of thing
14:54:47 <bcotton> #topic Next meeting
14:54:47 <bcotton> #info The next regular business meeting is Wednesday 24 May
14:55:43 <bcotton> #info The next video meeting is ?? (we weren't able to corral guests in time for today and the release party is close to the June slot, so probably July is the next one?)
14:55:45 <bcotton> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council/Video_Meetings
14:56:20 <bcotton> #topic Do we have anything to announce?
14:56:20 <bcotton> #info This is a regular check to make sure we're communicating to the contributor (via CommBlog) and user (via Magazine) communities
14:57:49 <bcotton> fingers crossed!
14:57:50 <bcotton> anything else?
15:00:47 <AleksandraFedoro> Use https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/454 for survey questions. And also a reminder that survey is intended to focus on technical not demographic perspective so we are not going into personal questions there on purpose. Questions regarding usage of apps and tools and services are totally valid.
15:01:43 <bcotton> alright, good meeting everyone. time to clear the room because I think IoT is standing patiently outside waiting (or not for another hour, who can say)
15:01:46 <bcotton> #endmeeting