15:02:30 <riecatnor> #startmeeting Community Outreach Revamp Meeting for the TTF
15:02:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Oct  1 15:02:30 2020 UTC.
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15:02:30 <zodbot> The chair is riecatnor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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15:02:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'community_outreach_revamp_meeting_for_the_ttf'
15:02:46 <riecatnor> #chair sumantro[m] @marianab
15:02:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: @marianab riecatnor sumantro[m]
15:02:54 <riecatnor> #topic roll call
15:03:03 <riecatnor> .hello riecatnor[m]
15:03:04 <zodbot> riecatnor: Sorry, but you don't exist
15:03:12 <riecatnor> .hello riecatnor
15:03:13 <zodbot> riecatnor: riecatnor 'None' <mnordin@redhat.com>
15:03:19 <sayak> Hey Everyone!
15:03:19 <siddharthvipul> .hello siddharthvipul1
15:03:22 <zodbot> siddharthvipul: siddharthvipul1 'Vipul Siddharth' <siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>
15:03:27 <sayak> .helo sayak
15:03:30 <sumantro[m]> .hello sumantrom
15:03:31 <zodbot> sumantro[m]: sumantrom 'Sumantro Mukherjee' <sumukher@redhat.com>
15:03:37 <sayak> .hello sayak
15:03:38 <zodbot> sayak: sayak 'Sayak Mukherjee' <sayakmukherjee1987@rediffmail.com>
15:04:09 <riecatnor> hiii!
15:04:11 <sumantro[m]> sayak: when did you steal my last name?
15:04:29 <sayak> .hello bugsmith
15:04:30 <zodbot> sayak: Sorry, but you don't exist
15:04:42 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Hi
15:05:16 <sayak> zodbot is identifying someone else with my name! :-/
15:05:36 <sayak> sumantro[m], ask zodbot! ;)
15:06:00 <riecatnor> cool, thanks everyone for showing up
15:06:03 <riecatnor> Mariana, are you here?
15:06:10 <sayak> .hello sayaksarkar
15:06:11 <zodbot> sayak: sayaksarkar 'Sayak Sarkar' <sayak.bugsmith@gmail.com>
15:06:16 <sayak> finally
15:06:24 <tg-fedmindshare> <Alessio> hello
15:06:57 <riecatnor> hi Alessio :)
15:07:12 <riecatnor> #link https://trello.com/b/XFg3Zgh8/fedora-ambassadors-revamp-2020
15:07:31 <riecatnor> #topic ambassador group clean up
15:07:40 <riecatnor> sumantro[m], want to report on response :)
15:08:15 <sumantro[m]> So, we have a about 80 responses
15:08:32 <riecatnor> awesome
15:08:55 <sumantro[m]> and I will create a doc with folks who want to continue as Ambassador and people who have no objection being moved out
15:09:00 <riecatnor> great
15:09:10 <riecatnor> bt0, are you around?
15:09:23 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Yes
15:09:35 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> I'm here
15:10:08 <marianab[m]> Hello everyone :)
15:10:40 <riecatnor> great
15:10:56 <riecatnor> once the two weeks are up for responses, we will move folks to ambassador emeritus
15:11:13 <riecatnor> from there bt0 has agreed to run the script again focusing on those who are 'sponsors'
15:11:36 <riecatnor> we will contact them in a similar way, asking if they would like to continue in a sponsor/mentor roll
15:11:38 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Sure
15:11:49 <riecatnor> and then correct the FAS from there
15:12:06 <riecatnor> @marianab, can you add these tasks to the trello board?
15:12:11 <riecatnor> under ambassador group clean up
15:12:35 <riecatnor> thanks to lailah for helping with the email draft
15:12:56 <riecatnor> not sure if they are there on the TG side
15:13:20 <marianab[m]> Adding them on the Trello board
15:13:41 <riecatnor> #topic role handbooks
15:14:06 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/220
15:14:34 <riecatnor> we have gotten 2 so far!
15:14:47 <riecatnor> bt0, how are you gathering this? directly by email or through tickets?
15:15:47 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> I need ping again to some members
15:15:59 <tg-fedmindshare> <b​t0dotninja> Is by mail
15:15:59 <riecatnor> do you have a list of the teams bt0
15:16:12 <riecatnor> bc we don't have a rep for every team on Mindshare Committee
15:16:19 <riecatnor> oops
15:16:27 <riecatnor> yeah, that actually.
15:16:32 <riecatnor> So, like the design team for example
15:16:44 <riecatnor> just checking to make sure we are getting those teams as well :)
15:17:25 <bt0> I exclude the ambassadors and elected members from the list
15:17:47 <riecatnor> bt0, can you provide a list of who you contacted please?
15:17:55 <bt0> sure
15:17:58 <riecatnor> thanks!
15:18:22 <riecatnor> so, seems to be moving along generally which is great :D
15:18:28 <riecatnor> just need to make sure we get all the teams
15:18:35 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-diversity/issue/153
15:18:57 <riecatnor> this is a task that was originally supposed to be owned by the D&I team, but they are swamped with FWD
15:19:07 <riecatnor> So we are going to take that over
15:20:00 * jwf peeks in from the back
15:20:10 <riecatnor> just to give an intro to this task, it is a survey that we will send to the those who have responded as active
15:20:24 <riecatnor> it is a chance for them to give direct feedback on what they want to be doing as ambassadors
15:20:34 <riecatnor> we want to focus on *bright spots*
15:20:45 <riecatnor> bright spots are people and processes that are successful
15:21:17 <riecatnor> we can attempt to emulate them more broadly, test to see if they work, and then implement
15:22:03 <riecatnor> #link https://trello.com/c/aMnzINER/1-survey-and-organize-findings
15:22:54 <bt0> * Marketing Representative: Eduard Lucena (x3mboy) * CommOps Representative: Alberto Rodríguez Sánchez (bt0dotninja / bt0)(Me) *
15:22:54 <bt0> Design & Web Representative: Rick Elrod (codeblock) *
15:22:54 <bt0> Docs Representative: Petr Bokoc (pbokoc) * Mentored Project Representative: Vipul Siddharth (siddharthvipul1)
15:22:55 <riecatnor> #link https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Community_Outreach_Survey
15:23:28 <riecatnor> bt0, I will review that and get back to you by emaik
15:23:29 <riecatnor> email*
15:23:57 <bt0> thanks
15:24:06 <riecatnor> please join me on the etherpad
15:24:17 <riecatnor> there you will see a series of questions I wrote up that need refinement
15:24:37 <riecatnor> They also need structure. So for example, mandatory/non-mandatory, multiple choice, open answer, etc
15:25:41 <riecatnor> sumantro[m] & @marianab and I will take some time to hack on that today a little
15:25:52 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Should we add things to the Etherpad?
15:25:55 <riecatnor> We need reviews and for more minds to think o fadditional questions
15:25:55 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Ahh ok
15:25:58 <riecatnor> ABSOLUTELY PLEASE
15:26:13 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> 👍🏻
15:26:37 <riecatnor> We want to jump start it, but we need everyones help :)
15:27:00 <bt0> sure
15:27:10 <riecatnor> #topic updates
15:27:48 <riecatnor> Marianab Sumantro and I are working on making this a full on Fedora Objective
15:28:10 <riecatnor> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/CommunityOutreachRevamp
15:28:30 <riecatnor> #meetingname community outreach ttf
15:28:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'community_outreach_ttf'
15:29:30 <riecatnor> #topic open floor
15:29:49 <riecatnor> I have a thing :) does anyone else?
15:30:25 <bt0> nothing from me
15:30:29 <riecatnor> Something that I did not factor into my proposal is how Sponsors/Mentorship will work
15:30:48 <riecatnor> I would like to get a better understanding of how it worked previously
15:30:56 <riecatnor> anyone here who can tell us about that?
15:31:03 <riecatnor> nb maybe
15:31:18 <riecatnor> bt0, are you a mentor for ambassadors?
15:31:23 <riecatnor> x3mboy[m], maybe
15:31:34 <bt0> Only Ambassador
15:32:00 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> I'm not sure about how the earlier Fedora Ambassadors mentorship structure worked but i have some experience from other communities.
15:32:30 <riecatnor> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_project_structure
15:32:43 <riecatnor> "Realizing the tremendous learning curve that is present upon becoming an Ambassador and the requirement that Fedora's guiding principles be properly represented, FAmSCo setup a process whereby potential Ambassadors are teamed with established mentors to ensure they have the requisite knowledge and experience to begin working effectively. Mentors are given wide leeway in determining if applicants are to be approved.
15:32:43 <riecatnor> "
15:32:47 <riecatnor> a process hmmm lol
15:33:35 <riecatnor> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor
15:33:39 <riecatnor> what an interesting page lol
15:33:56 <bt0> :)
15:33:57 <riecatnor> we have found some these we will need to update
15:34:30 <riecatnor> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassador_Candidate_Ticket_Management
15:35:05 <bt0> Yes, that is very old.
15:35:12 <riecatnor> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService
15:35:20 <bt0> well mostly 3 years
15:35:45 <riecatnor> I don't think the old structure is bad
15:35:54 <riecatnor> I think it just needs a bit of updating
15:36:11 <riecatnor> and to get to docs
15:36:21 <riecatnor> and we need to mark these as out of date
15:36:30 <riecatnor> thoughts?
15:37:11 <riecatnor> bugsmith, would you like to share?
15:37:15 <sumantro[m]> valid idea to garden the wiki... transfer them to docs
15:37:20 <jwf> nb and sankarshan are probably good contacts, re: Ambassador mentorship
15:37:23 <riecatnor> stories/links welcome :)
15:37:42 <nb> hi
15:37:52 <bt0> hi nb++
15:38:06 <riecatnor> nb, can you give us perspective on the ambassador mentorship part of the program
15:38:12 <riecatnor> what worked well or didnt
15:38:30 <nb> Basically the process now is someone looks a t the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor and makes contact with someone, and then when the mentor thinks they are ready, they sponsor them int othe ambassadors group
15:38:48 <nb> originally, they filed a ticket, and then approved it, and then FAmA sponsored them
15:38:55 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Sure
15:38:57 <nb> but then it was decided by FAmSCo to make the mentors sponsors
15:39:20 <nb> A lot of it depends on the individual mentor and the candidate how long the process takes
15:39:44 <riecatnor> I have heard the complaint "I don't hear back from the mentor I emailed"
15:40:07 <riecatnor> So, I kinda think a ticket is better. It keeps the mentors accountable
15:40:25 <nb> I had went through a couple years ago and emailed the mentors and asked "are you still avialable" and updated the list
15:40:32 <nb> I think that should be done every so often
15:40:40 <riecatnor> or at least, we can help find someone different for them to connect with
15:40:50 <nb> yeah, that might be good
15:40:51 <riecatnor> yeah, nb we are putting that on the to do for the TTF to do now
15:41:15 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> I like the tickets based approach
15:41:43 <riecatnor> I guess that would go to the ambassador repo
15:41:53 <nb> Yeah, that might be good.  There's already a fama repo IIRC
15:41:59 <nb> which I think is what was used i nthe past
15:42:41 <riecatnor> do you have a link nb
15:42:44 <riecatnor> I found this
15:42:51 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/ambassadors/fedora-handbook
15:42:53 <nb> https://pagure.io/fama
15:43:13 <riecatnor> #link https://pagure.io/fama/issues
15:43:40 <riecatnor> so same with this, it needs updating
15:44:38 <riecatnor> I added the task here: https://trello.com/c/sgVnz6qm/33-update-and-finalize-commops-team-structure
15:45:33 <misc> so I have a question, it may sound stupid, the idea was to have a process if I read the doc correctly, but doing differently with each mentor ("wide leeway") seems to not go in that direction, was there some baseline on how to decide who is approved or not ?
15:46:09 <riecatnor> misc, here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService
15:46:56 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Should there be a membership agreement for ambassadors?
15:47:05 <misc> "    Change your first name and last name to Latin letters in the FAS if you filled your name in Cyrillic, Chinese, or other than Latin." mhh :/
15:47:18 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Surrey if this is already answered. I'm just curious.
15:47:47 <riecatnor> misc, all of those pages are way out of date
15:48:02 <riecatnor> bugsmith, I don't know.
15:48:13 <riecatnor> It is a good question to consider
15:48:21 <riecatnor> It may feel like a higher barrier to entry somehow
15:48:34 <riecatnor> what will we achieve by adding that into the process
15:48:53 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> The reason I ask is because I think there should be a basic agreement for ambassadors to agree upon to hold up a certain degree of accountability
15:49:09 <riecatnor> so I found this
15:49:10 <riecatnor> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Conduct
15:50:02 <riecatnor> Could def use an update
15:50:25 <riecatnor> I added that onto the to do
15:50:28 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> The problem with making a program like ambassadors widely open for joining is that there is the possibility of a bunch of folks joining just for the sake getting the tag of an ambassador!
15:50:41 <riecatnor> I think that is why the mentorship process is in place
15:50:50 <bt0> that happens
15:51:04 <riecatnor> bugsmith, here is what ambassadors are supposed to do/be before they are approved https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService
15:51:05 <bt0> maybe make some events before apply
15:52:09 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Yup. Theoretically it makes sense but I have seen a lot of exploitation of similar programs. I'm wondering how can we tackle possible mis-exploitation.
15:52:10 <riecatnor> well their is a ladder: join -> commops/advocate -> ambassador
15:53:15 <riecatnor> I think we should evaluate each aspect of the mentorship process to make sure we are eliminating as many of those as we can
15:53:37 <riecatnor> so if someone wants to go through *THAT* much effort to receive the title.. learn everything about fedora for that.. i am not going to complain lol
15:53:41 <riecatnor> like, just have it
15:54:01 <riecatnor> if and when those individuals created some problem, we deal with it.
15:54:02 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Ladders work well. We just need to make sure that each step of the ladder keeps a check on the immediate lower step.
15:54:18 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> +1
15:54:18 <riecatnor> yep
15:55:06 <riecatnor> Like, if the point for you is ot get the title, and you are still doing work and participating here, I am kinda not upset about that lol if they just disappear... they get cleared out in the next active ambassador check in
15:55:45 <bt0> +1
15:55:48 <riecatnor> This was a very good topic, I am glad it came up
15:55:58 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> We can simply leave some sort of scope for the program's evolution and shape things as we go forward. We need not try to make things perfect right away though!
15:56:16 <riecatnor> progress before perfection seems like the theme of the day ;)
15:56:18 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> +1
15:56:31 <tg-fedmindshare> <B​ugsmith> Yep
15:56:47 <riecatnor> thank you everyone for being here
15:56:58 <riecatnor> thank you sumantro[m] @marianab[m] for the work you are doing
15:57:07 <riecatnor> and everyone else!
15:57:08 <bt0> thank for your work :)
15:57:17 <riecatnor> Everyone I talk to is very excited about this
15:57:27 <riecatnor> Matthew did some podcast interview and they asked about the revamp!
15:57:54 <riecatnor> feel free to email/message me with any questions about work to be done during the next two weeks.
15:58:15 <riecatnor> #endmeeting